ship interiors - will they happen

[DemiserofD]

A great deal of Odyssey content is designed around not flying your ship, I believe it was designed so you didn't even need a ship, that's why taxi ships were included.

Absolutely - and there is significant room for expansion on content that takes place outside your ship. But that does not imply a need for on-foot content inside a ship.

The vast majority of on-foot activities would be better served by greater investment in existing planet-based content, like bases, more enemy types, and so on.

 

[DemiserofD]

There is much more in this thread, many digest posts that aggregate many ideas and points in one post - I suggest start with them, there are much more than two. Looking forward to see each and every case.

See? This is the problem with ship interiors. Whenever people start to realize that it's a broken suggestion, they fall back on the old 'you're not imagining hard enough' defense. As if one can simply imagine things that are fundamentally impossible. All you have is whataboutisms and empty accusations.

I'll happily discuss anything you care to mention. I brought up the two most recent ones, but I'm not going to do your job for you.

Go ahead!

 

[Coolgroove]

All you have is whataboutisms and empty accusations.

There is no need to project.

Whenever people start to realize that it's a broken suggestion, they fall back on the old 'you're not imagining hard enough' defense. As if one can simply imagine things that are fundamentally impossible.

There are many posts, there are digest posts, one of them in my sig, many more in other posts. So far it looks like you're avoiding doing what you've said you can easily do, and instead talking about something else.

I brought up the two most recent ones

Yes, you did brought up, and added nothing except few counter arguments made by others and me against your own initial posts and points. No counter arguments, no actual problems, and not even a drop of imagination or analysis for possible solutions.

but I'm not going to do your job for you.

I have no job here. You're the one who wants to point problems - go for it, if it's not a problem.

each and every case.

 

[DemiserofD]

There is no need to project.

There are many posts, there are digest posts, one of them in my sig, many more in other posts. So far it looks like you're avoiding doing what you've said you can easily do, and instead talking about something else.


Yes, you did brought up, and added nothing except few counter arguments made by others and me against your own initial posts and points. No counter arguments, no actual problems, and not even a drop of imagination or analysis for possible solutions.


I have no job here. You're the one who wants to point problems - go for it, if it's not a problem.

each and every case.

Go ahead? Suggest anything. You're the one proposing new content. What do you want to focus on?

 

[Coolgroove]

Go ahead? Suggest anything.

Haha, I did, more than once

 

[DemiserofD]

Haha, I did, more than once

Well, the thread moves on. What do you want to talk about now? It feels like you're just deflecting because you know I've already addressed the two main sources of content(boarding and repairs).

Surely there's more than just that? Use your imagination!

 

[Coolgroove]

I've already addressed the two main sources of content(boarding and repairs).

You did not, haha

Surely there's more than just that?

There is. And it is right there. Just a click away, and more with few more clicks.

Well, the thread moves on.

So you can't do it?

 

[DemiserofD]

You did not, haha


There is. And it is right there. Just a click away, and more with few more clicks.


So you can't do it?

It's not my job to care, lol. And the more you waste time, the less other people care.

Really, I don't mind going back and forth on this forever. All it does in my mind is make the people who like interiors realize it's pointless. I'm happy, of course, to go back on topic whenever you want - but I'm just as happy to just turn this post into a graveyard, because again, I think it's all a waste of time. But you should know, I've been here for five years. I have nothing but time.

Your call.

 

[Coolgroove]

It's not my job to care, lol

Ok, another excuse, check. If you're not up for the task, you shouldn't have said that you'll do it.

and with that - there are no problems with ship interiors!

 

[DemiserofD]

Ok, another excuse, check. If you're not up for the task, you shouldn't have said that you'll do it.

and with that - there are no problems with ship interiors!

Well, I'll happily re-discuss my earlier points! I, by no means, have any worries that my points have any flaws under honest critique. If you're fine letting me be the only one making actual points, by all means.

Really, we can break it down even more than before.

1. Elite ships are too big and too agile. You don't have time to fly your ship AND get up to do anything. This means you cannot have interior content at any time that you're doing anything else - which is something like 99% of the game.
2. You can't change the existing gameplay. No dev company is going to sacrifice good content for content of unknown quality.
3. There are no gameplay advantages to explore beyond aesthetics and immersion - which are not enough.

That's really it, if you think about it. That encompasses virtually all the suggestions for Interiors.

 

[Coolgroove]

Well, I'll happily re-discuss my earlier points!

There is no point.

I, by no means, have any worries that my points have any flaws under honest critique.

Very good. Then you can come back to when they were discussed and address arguments with your own counter arguments if you don't agree, instead of repeating the same thing.

If you're fine letting me be the only one making actual points, by all means.

All points were disproven. No counter arguments and no points. It should be - 'only one not making points'.

1. Elite ships are too big and too agile. You don't have time to fly your ship AND get up to do anything. This means you cannot have interior content at any time that you're doing anything else - which is something like 99% of the game.

First part is not relevant to discussion, even from a technical pov Lantern Light proven that speed/agility is not an issue. Second part is not a problem as there is no gameplay with ship interiors when in flight/fight. Third part - interiors content can be at any time when player is not doing other non-interiors content, just like on-foot content is on planets and not at the same time as dogfighting in haz-res.

2 - there is no need for any of that. Ship interiors and EVA add new gameplay and content without removing/changing existing gameplay.

3 - Every explorer in the game will tell you that you are very wrong.

That's really it, if you think about it. That encompasses virtually all the suggestions for Interiors.

If you had been brave to act on your words and go for links and suggestions previously - you would see how very wrong that statement is. But you're avoiding it, most likely because you know it to be true.

 

[galahad2069]

There are no problems with Ship Interiors.

Only because "Ship Interiors" don't exist.

Yet in truth they are feasible, profitable, extremely desired

In your opinion, sure.
But that's not the same thing as truth.

and every possible counter-point has already been debunked to Oblivion and back.

Absolutely not. LOL

But fact is: NO other feature has ANY realistic prospect of being more feasible, profitable + so extremely desired.

That's not a fact, no matter how many times you say it is.

Any other reason to be against Ship Interiors would in one way or another come down to actually simply wishing to hurt Elite.

What's actually hurting Elite is the gradual degradation of its quality caused by the steadily growing number of ages old unfixed bugs and half-baked features.

Add Ship Interiors!

No.

 

[DemiserofD]

First part is not relevant to discussion, even from a technical pov Lantern Light proven that speed/agility is not an issue. Second part is not a problem as there is no gameplay with ship interiors when in flight/fight. Third part - interiors content can be at any time when player is not doing other non-interiors content, just like on-foot content is on planets and not at the same time as dogfighting in haz-res.

I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear! In this game, you fly your ship constantly, because ships in Elite have a great amount of agility. Constant input is required; you cannot afford to just let go of the controls and walk away, or you'll crash, or get shot! But ships are very big! It takes time to walk through a big ship to get to places that you can do things! This means that you can never actually get up to use interiors while you're actually flying your ship! But flying your ship is all you do in this game, so you can't ever actually use interiors unless you're already stationary!

That's why big agile ships are bad for ship interiors!

there is no need for any of that. Ship interiors and EVA add new gameplay and content without removing/changing existing gameplay.

Not while your ship is moving! And if it's not while your ship is moving, why bother having it be in a ship at all? Just make it take place on a planet or other base!

 

[Coolgroove]

Constant input is required; you cannot afford to just let go of the controls and walk away, or you'll crash, or get shot! But ships are very big! It takes time to walk through a big ship to get to places that you can do things!

read again

Second part is not a problem as there is no gameplay with ship interiors when in flight/fight.

If you had any idea about actual suggestions and ideas for Ship Interiors and EVA gameplay, you would know that -

This means that you can never actually get up to use interiors while you're actually flying your ship!

is so obvious that it makes absolutely no sense to repeat it so many time as you do, while ignoring and not addressing counter arguments.

That's why big agile ships are bad for ship interiors!

They are very good for ship interiors, just as all other ships!

Not while your ship is moving! And if it's not while your ship is moving, why bother having it be in a ship at all?

I wonder if you are serious and really don't get it, or you simply think that if you repeat the same thing ignoring every point it would somehow magically become true.

Ship interiors add NEW gameplay. NEW gameplay. They are NOT changing existing flight mechanics and gameplay. They are not to change or replace existing gameplay that involves flying your ship. They add NEW gameplay, possibility to interact with the game in a new way, that is not possible on planets or in other parts of the current game.

Hahaha, somehow I think it still won't sink in.

And as expected, all the inconvenient parts were avoided and ignored again, just more repeats. Boring.

 

[metatheurgist]

Another problem is that if you add interior content, it can't just be for itself. Decorating your interior is a very niche subset of the playerbase, not worth doing things for on its own.

I'd say the same thing about Colonosocopy and Powerpants and PMFS.

 

[DemiserofD]

Ship interiors add NEW gameplay. NEW gameplay. They are NOT changing existing flight mechanics and gameplay. They are not to change or replace existing gameplay that involves flying your ship. They add NEW gameplay, possibility to interact with the game in a new way, that is not possible on planets or in other parts of the current game.

Great - except they HAVE to merge with existing gameplay, or much like we've seen in games like Starfield, people will look at them once and then never bother with them again.

Like I said before, I could see it working with Odyssey on-foot engineering, exobiology, that sort of thing. But if it only works while you're stationary anyway, it raises the question of, why bother having it on your ship at all? Why not have it happen in other on-foot places that already exist, like settlements and the like?

That's the thing; in order for ship interiors to make sense, it has to be something that requires mobility(else why have it on a ship at all?) but it also won't work while the ship is moving(because too big+too agile+must have hands on the stick at all times).

Those two circles don't particularly cross at all. Even before you get to the exclusion circle of 'things that you can already do that devs don't want to invalidate'.

 

[MUTILADOR]

Well, I'll happily re-discuss my earlier points! I, by no means, have any worries that my points have any flaws under honest critique. If you're fine letting me be the only one making actual points, by all means.

Really, we can break it down even more than before.

1. Elite ships are too big and too agile. You don't have time to fly your ship AND get up to do anything. This means you cannot have interior content at any time that you're doing anything else - which is something like 99% of the game.
2. You can't change the existing gameplay. No dev company is going to sacrifice good content for content of unknown quality.
3. There are no gameplay advantages to explore beyond aesthetics and immersion - which are not enough.

That's really it, if you think about it. That encompasses virtually all the suggestions for Interiors.

1. I don't see any logic in saying that because the ship is large, you can't have interior content. What's your argument?Much of Elite's content isn't even about piloting a ship. If you have a crew, they can do things on your ship while you're piloting it, but the bottom line is that a feature like the ship's interior is primarily for doing things outside of piloting.

2. As if you can't "change gameplay?," as you said, "any company," when in reality, "EVERY company" is constantly doing so, improving, adapting, and modifying. In fact, Frontier has already improved several gameplay features. Don't confuse sacrifice with "development"; improvement isn't losing.

3. Dude, saying this clearly means you've never visited the forum. There are hundreds of posts about ship interiors on the forum, listing a multitude of benefits. Currently, no feature has such a long list of benefits described by commanders on this forum and elsewhere.

 

[heathenlamb]

I've stated this previously .... if they add ship interiors they would pretty much have to add VR legs ... It would make no sense to have ship interiors that wouldn't be accessible in VR when the cockpit is accessible in VR. So they would essentially need to create proper VR legs for Odyssey .... which is super fine with me ... but, in my humble opinion, I think it is probably the single thing holding it back.

As to a gameplay loop that would USE interiors ... I mean ... Multicrew is it. You could easily have a situation where 3-4 people could crew one ship and get up and walk off to the lounge, or crew quarters etc, while another pilots the ship on long haul expeditions ... I can definitely see the attraction of that.

 

[Mr T]

I've stated this previously .... if they add ship interiors they would pretty much have to add VR legs ... It would make no sense to have ship interiors that wouldn't be accessible in VR when the cockpit is accessible in VR. So they would essentially need to create proper VR legs for Odyssey .... which is super fine with me ... but, in my humble opinion, I think it is probably the single thing holding it back.

As to a gameplay loop that would USE interiors ... I mean ... Multicrew is it. You could easily have a situation where 3-4 people could crew one ship and get up and walk off to the lounge, or crew quarters etc, while another pilots the ship on long haul expeditions ... I can definitely see the attraction of that.

I think FD was quite shaken after the catastrophic failure of the launch of Odyssey. It feels like they lost confidence in continuing with things like ship interiors and as I player I would probably agree with the way they went about things at the time. If ship interiors is going to make the performance of ED worse, which is incredibly likely based on they way things went when Odyssey was introduced, then we have to ask ourselves again whether we do really want them? My answer would certainly be no.

 

[heathenlamb]

I think FD was quite shaken after the catastrophic failure of the launch of Odyssey. It feels like they lost confidence in continuing with things like ship interiors and as I player I would probably agree with the way they went about things at the time. If ship interiors is going to make the performance of ED worse, which is incredibly likely based on they way things went when Odyssey was introduced, then we have to ask ourselves again whether we do really want them? My answer would certainly be no.

Yeah I can completely take or leave ship interiors haha. Truth be told, 95% of ED feature updates are not things I've wanted or engage with ... On Foot missions, carriers, colonisation, PP ... these things interest me not and add nothing to my enjoyment of the game. I imagine ship interiors will just be added to that list.