Were all seven refinery hubs built recently, or were the first two before Patch 3?
"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.
- Thread starter Ian Doncaster
- Start date
Six hubs and one planetary port. The port shows 6 strong refinery links and no weak. Everything was built after 29th April.
Hmm. Icy with geologicals should be industrial 2.4 + Extraction 1.8 as a baseline, I think - not a good starting point, of course!
Then the first refinery hub would be 1.2 and subsequent ones 0.8.
I'm surprised based on that you had most of those exports to start with at just two refinery hubs - but adding more should all else equal have made them more likely, not less. I wonder if the Wealth or Development Level boosts associated with the hubs happen to have favoured demand rather than supply for those items. There does seem to be some evidence that specialisation numbers are generated from system variables.
(Even at refinery 5.2 from six hubs almost all of those commodities are at best "possible export" on the theoretical model, many "possible import", so it's not entirely surprising that you don't have production of them, but it is weird that you had it and then lost it)
Then the first refinery hub would be 1.2 and subsequent ones 0.8.
I'm surprised based on that you had most of those exports to start with at just two refinery hubs - but adding more should all else equal have made them more likely, not less. I wonder if the Wealth or Development Level boosts associated with the hubs happen to have favoured demand rather than supply for those items. There does seem to be some evidence that specialisation numbers are generated from system variables.
(Even at refinery 5.2 from six hubs almost all of those commodities are at best "possible export" on the theoretical model, many "possible import", so it's not entirely surprising that you don't have production of them, but it is weird that you had it and then lost it)
So this discussion gave me an idea… if, in the current state of things, you wanted a refinery on an ice world - could you theoretically build a scientific planetary outpost to avoid the inherent economy of the planet? It wouldn’t be ideal since HT still eats some of the refinery exports - if it can pick up the hub influence - but it seems preferable to losing it to an arbitrarily applied, hard-locked industrial influence that there is no way to avoid.
(Of course it’s a bit late in this case, but I might find an application for it in a system where I plan a refinery and one of three landable bodies has 6 build slots on an ice world… of course I could just use it for agri production with which to counter standard of living penalties, and the weak link from it shouldn’t really affect the refinery aspect meaningfully.)
(Of course it’s a bit late in this case, but I might find an application for it in a system where I plan a refinery and one of three landable bodies has 6 build slots on an ice world… of course I could just use it for agri production with which to counter standard of living penalties, and the weak link from it shouldn’t really affect the refinery aspect meaningfully.)
Has anyone else with a high population growth witness extreme stagnation after this weekly tick? My growth slowed down from 40 million a day to just 9.
A war has started in the system, but I highly doubt that has any impact on population (even tho it realistically should). I'll update should population growth speed up again after the war.
A war has started in the system, but I highly doubt that has any impact on population (even tho it realistically should). I'll update should population growth speed up again after the war.
Frontier said in the patch notes that population growth would be rapid at first, then taper off.
I expect for existing systems they applied a few cycles of "catchup" when they released the patch - so I went from 30k to 13M at release time, then up to 14M this week.
(which already feels excessive for the relatively small number of constructions I have - NPC systems with this level of assets are generally well below a million!)
Starting with a fresh system a slightly more gradual falloff might be seen?
I expect for existing systems they applied a few cycles of "catchup" when they released the patch - so I went from 30k to 13M at release time, then up to 14M this week.
(which already feels excessive for the relatively small number of constructions I have - NPC systems with this level of assets are generally well below a million!)
Starting with a fresh system a slightly more gradual falloff might be seen?
I already did that, but on a HMC.
Tier 1 HighTech (predetermined economy) surface port was affected only by secondary links, and not by planetary influence.
Less hi-tech products as before, unfortunately, it went from 0.65 HighTech to >
There were no strong links, no other refinery hubs on that planet, that refinery influence came only from weak links.
If I were to add some refinery hubs, the situation would have been different, I suppose.
Makes me wonder though, I've seen some systems grow quickly way past 700 million, mine just kinda stagnated after 600 even though my ELW is on the upper limit in terms of size... maybe there's a degree of RNG/luck involved how much population an ELW will house? I hope not but guess I'll see.
Luck or physical planetary properties? Are their ELWs higher radius than yours?
Not impossible that things like Wealth or Standard of Living also play a part in population growth rates or caps.
Not impossible that things like Wealth or Standard of Living also play a part in population growth rates or caps.
Nope, my ELW is 2 Earth masses which is on the upper limit of what's possible in terms of size, which is why I was wondering.
I'm fairly sure wealth and SoL don't play a part in population, atleast as far as I've been told. Checks out with my observations too, I built a bunch of installations the past few days and growth didn't speed up.
Any changes in BGS state of the owning faction?
You are correct. Also, I was a bit mistaken regarding the sequence. Things were ok after 1st ref hub, then we completed 2 and 3 together, and messed up the market.
After consulting the game logs, the build sequence was:
29/4/2025 9:20 pm : Planetary Port, Economies: Colony 100%, only 4 commodities available
30/4/2025 10:16 pm : 1st refinery hub, the Planetary Port shows Refinery 240%
30/4/2025 7:34 pm, Economies: Industrial 240%, Refinery 200%, Extraction 180%
1/5/2025 3:18 pm Economies: Refinery 120%, Colony 50%, commodities present
1/5/2025 1:25 pm Economies: Refinery 240%, all commodities present --> this is strange, nothing was changed in system
1/5/2025 1:31 pm : 2nd refinery hub
1/5/2025 1:34 pm : 3rd refinery hub (we completed two at the same time)
1/5/2025 7:20 pm Economies: Refinery 120%, Colony 50%, commodities present
1/5/2025 8:05 pm Economies: Refinery 120%, Colony 50%, commodities missing ?!?!
2/5/2025 7:10 pm Economies: Refinery 360%, Industrial 240%, Extraction 180%
6/5/2025 8:29 pm : 4th refinery hub
6/5/2025 8:42 pm : Economies: Refinery 440%, Industrial 240%, Extraction 180%
7/5/2025 9:03 pm : 5th refinery hub
7/5/2025 9:15 pm : Economies: Refinery 520%, Industrial 240%, Extraction 180%
The 6th refinery hub was completed on 9/5, but economy still remains Refinery 520%, Industrial 240%, Extraction 180%, one day later.
We dont know yet whether caps exist. There might be a hard economy cap around 5.
Okay, there's some really weird stuff going on in there where it looks like the game can't decide whether to apply planetary influence at all or just leave the port as (residual) Colony (where a single hub would be enough for most refinery goods). Probably a bug of some sort where something was temporarily calculating on the old version still on 1 May; bad news in this case is that it appears to have stabilised on giving you the full planetary economy piled on top.
Need some help with setting up systems: I am building up a refinery economy in our squad’s mini-bubble to aid us in further expansion. I’m constructing a Coriolis around a rocky body with 1 ground slot that is to be filled with a ref settlement for CMM / ceramics.
I’ve been wondering what would be the most efficient way of providing the non-refinery materials needed for colonization. I’ve decided to focus on spaceport construction and quickly typed together a little table… “x” meaning supply and “o” meaning demand. Feel free to correct me if I’ve made a mistake or two.
I didn’t bother listing what consumes ref products. My precious pure ref economy won’t get touched by anything except maybe agriculture.
As far as I can tell, the easiest way of getting the remaining mats would be via industry, high tech and agriculture. But what would be the most effective way of arranging these economies? I am aiming for the lowest number of stations and systems possible.
I wonder if I can sneak in some agriculture via weak links into my ref Coriolis? I just doubt I can get water from it. I’m also sceptical if I can combine an industrial and a high-tech economy in a second system without some of the goods disappearing.
Would I have to construct 4 different Coriolis stations to guarantee availability of all mats to large ships (unless I go ground settlements, which might be more sensible), or is there some clever way of combining economies?
IF I have to build 4 stations, can I at least pack them into 2 systems (one being ref + ag, the other ind + HT), or could the weak links be enough to eat up certain goods?
Another challenge would be to even set up such stations… a non-dilluted ag station doesn’t seem possible at all, so maybe I would have to resort to an agricultural surface settlement to get any water?
You guys have much more experience with this sort of thing, so I would greatly appreciate your help!
I’ve been wondering what would be the most efficient way of providing the non-refinery materials needed for colonization. I’ve decided to focus on spaceport construction and quickly typed together a little table… “x” meaning supply and “o” meaning demand. Feel free to correct me if I’ve made a mistake or two.
I didn’t bother listing what consumes ref products. My precious pure ref economy won’t get touched by anything except maybe agriculture.
As far as I can tell, the easiest way of getting the remaining mats would be via industry, high tech and agriculture. But what would be the most effective way of arranging these economies? I am aiming for the lowest number of stations and systems possible.
I wonder if I can sneak in some agriculture via weak links into my ref Coriolis? I just doubt I can get water from it. I’m also sceptical if I can combine an industrial and a high-tech economy in a second system without some of the goods disappearing.
Would I have to construct 4 different Coriolis stations to guarantee availability of all mats to large ships (unless I go ground settlements, which might be more sensible), or is there some clever way of combining economies?
IF I have to build 4 stations, can I at least pack them into 2 systems (one being ref + ag, the other ind + HT), or could the weak links be enough to eat up certain goods?
Another challenge would be to even set up such stations… a non-dilluted ag station doesn’t seem possible at all, so maybe I would have to resort to an agricultural surface settlement to get any water?
You guys have much more experience with this sort of thing, so I would greatly appreciate your help!
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Industrial and high-tech you can use the intrinsic-economy versions of the stations - the T1 orbital outposts are cheaper but not large pad (though most constructions don't need that many of those goods anyway), or the T1 surface outposts. They don't pick up planetary economies or generate weak links, so they should be safe to stick in the same system as each other. Industrial you could alternatively stick a colony port on/over an ice world.
Water you can get from surface extraction economies, as well as agricultural, so if you can find a landable HMC without volcanism/biological/rings you can stick a surface colony port on that. Could be in the same system as the above two.
Fruit and Veg is going to be the trickiest: the best option is probably:
- find a HMC without volcanism/biological that isn't tidally locked. That means you're only fighting a single Extraction economy for production, and Agri strong links don't get a penalty.
- it also needs to be landable and have a lot of surface slots
- and probably shouldn't be in either your refinery system or your industrial/high-tech/surface extraction "safety" system because this will generate a bunch of weak links and doesn't want any incoming ones either
- T1 colony surface port, then as many Agri settlements as will fit.
...then you need to hope you get lucky. A 2:1 ratio of Agri to everything else should often be enough to get fruit and veg supply, but with bad luck you might need to go to 4:1
Another option which might work - though requires a rarer planet to start with - is if you can find a non-terraformable WW with three orbital slots, put a colony outpost in one of them and two T2 farms in the others. That'll get you 2:1 over the Tourism economy but if that doesn't work you'll have no way to get it higher.
Thanks a lot - this isn't the first time you've really helped me out. Really appreciate it!
I'll have to think your proposals through and might get back to you with a question or two.
One thing that immediately struck me: Fruit an Vegetables seems to be a strange beast. A squad mate of mine has a Coriolis with 3.40 refinery, 1.45 agriculture, 1.00 terraforming and 0.05 military. F & V supply is a mind-boggling 273,000 units, but there's no water and few other ag products.
I assumed it's a commodity that's hard to kill by other economy types.
Edit: I am sure he doesn't mind, so I'll attach screenshots of this market. I wonder how all the F&V can be explained?
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Why non terraformable? Ideally I think you would want it to be terraformable and not tidally locked, that way you'll get 1.2 extra ag (boosts on the planetary influence and the strong links from the farms) for a total of 3.0 vs 1.0 tourism.