Ground weapons against ships... Any stats anywhere?

[GraXXoR]

Are there any stats tables showing how much damage ground weapons do against ship hulls and armour or how they fare against resistances?
I've looked in EDSY but it only shows resistances to other ship weapons and not how long a shield could survive against a gang of scavs...

I've searched the web but only found stuff from the opposite direction like "how to take down a ship's shields with a handheld weapon"

Any info most welcome,

Thanks!

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I also would like to understand how a lill' gun can damage my Corvette shield more than one of these Security ships hammering it with all it got...

 

[Kira Goto]

I also would like to understand how a lill' gun can damage my Corvette shield more than one of these Security ships hammering it with all it got...

"Balance"

or -

"We wanted foot guns in your spaceship game but couldn't possibly have the ships and vehicles be as effective as they would be in a semi-real scenario so pop guns that barely qualify as civilian-grade do more damage than a plasma accelerator and personal shields are magical one-hit prevention barriers, while sensors somehow are incapable of detecting the humans walking on a surface of a frozen moon that is almost at absolute zero"

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

The prismatics of my DBX can withstand quite a lot of fire, while I hide behind them and pick off the attackers.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Mine too.

But I have just built a Corvette with bi-weave reinforced+fast charge, and a load of resistance augmented boosters, to prioritize a fast regen percentage and high resistance to thermal and kinetic.

My goal is to park it right next to a military settlement and let it tank any fire, so I can conveniently board it once I am done, go rearm when I run out of ammo, or fall back behind its shield if outnumbered.

1849 MJ (raw), it takes 3 minutes to recharge 50%, and half that time to bring it back online to 50%. With as much HRP's heavy duty+deep plating as I could fit, it should be able to withstand anything...

...now if the NPC on-foot weapons deal a flat percentage of damage, I would have built this Corvette for nothing :-/

 

[Elpapo]

But I have just built a Corvette with bi-weave reinforced+fast charge, and a load of resistance augmented boosters, to prioritize a fast regen percentage and high resistance to thermal and kinetic.

My goal is to park it right next to a miltary setlement and let it tank any fire, so I can conveniently board it once I am done, go rearm when I run out of ammo, or fall back behind its shield if outnumbered.

It takes 3 minutes to recharge 50%, and half that time to bring it back online to 50%. With as much HRP's heavy duty+deep plating as I could fit, it should be able to wistand anything...

...now if the NPC on-foot weapons deal a flat prcentage of damage, I would have built this Corvette for nothing :-/

They dont. New bulid is not done in vain.


Its preety much same "rules", as it is for ships.
Left such ship(the new vette) with 4 SYS, and it gonna take quite many mins, for entire npc squad done anything significant to it, before you would be done with your business at time.

On foot weapons, they deal exacly same type of dmg, as stated. Kinetic is kinetic, lasers deal thermal, L-6 is explosive and plasma is absolute. AP is low, as with high enough of hull hardness, onfoot weps seems to deal less dmg, save for L-6, when used vs hull, not shields... against bigger ships or those with high hull hardness.

Still, resist will works both for shields and hull, then there hull hardness itself, when shields go down. In other words, big ships, especially with really good hull, will last very long time.

AP of all on foot weapons is really low, but shields does not care about AP at all, so shields seems to take "harder", the dmg on foot weps can deliver, compared to hull.
Only L6 have somewhat higher AP, as its meant to be as anti-ship/anti-vechicle. (preety sure L6 do 100% dmg against hull of any ship)

I also would like to understand how a lill' gun can damage my Corvette shield more than one of these Security ships hammering it with all it got...

It really depend what is attackin yours vette, and how many at once. I mean what kind on foot weapon it is and its level. At G5 they are quite nasty, most of them.

Many weapons, especially kinetics on foot, such as G5 AR-50 deals as much dmg as fixed c2 or gimball c3 multicannon per bullet, but with much higher ROF (10 per second), reload 3x as faster too(npcs got infinte ammo). If within range, no wonder if feels like hitting more harder than those security vipers. Every elite npc, uses G5 ones, given dmg they deal.

Other thing is, that npcs rarely attack an ship alone, as whatever npcs decide to do, they usually do it as a group, if there more than 2 of them.
They kinda work wich each other, not always, but when aggro, they often work as team. (I kinda like that about on foot ncps, btw, despite still them being dumb)

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Are there any stats tables showing how much damage ground weapons do against ship hulls and armour or how they fare against resistances?
I've looked in EDSY but it only shows resistances to other ship weapons and not how long a shield could survive against a gang of scavs...

I've searched the web but only found stuff from the opposite direction like "how to take down a ship's shields with a handheld weapon"

Any info most welcome,

Thanks!

Check out the Yamiks videos.

 

[Elpapo]

Are there any stats tables showing how much damage ground weapons do against ship hulls and armour or how they fare against resistances?
I've looked in EDSY but it only shows resistances to other ship weapons and not how long a shield could survive against a gang of scavs...

I've searched the web but only found stuff from the opposite direction like "how to take down a ship's shields with a handheld weapon"

Any info most welcome,

Thanks!

Afaik, there is not. But Ive tested it myself, back in the day, to see whenever resist apply, and what AP is for weps on foot. Resist do apply same as for ships, and AP is low for most weps, more detail about it post above.

 

[gbjbaanb]

Does nobody care that ship weapons cannot hurt a ground-based scavenger no matter how many multicannon rounds you fire at them?

 

[Kira Goto]

Does nobody care that ship weapons cannot hurt a ground-based scavenger no matter how many multicannon rounds you fire at them?

Me and a friend certainly think it is ridiculous the only viable anti-ground weapon is missile racks. Now, yes, sure, that makes a certain amount of sense when you consider the scale of the targets being fired at (much like why tanks use high-explosive against "softer" or infantry targets than armor-piercing), but... meh. A plasma accelerator round (just to use an example) should absolutely be usable against such targets. Probably lasers too. Yet they - lasers - barely seem to tickle even the scavenger NPCs found at mission POIs on planets... and good luck hitting anything with the plasma accelerator without a proper targeting indicator for such a small target.

It's easier to just smash them with the ship's nose or "land" on them. Or use a Scorpion in road rage fashion and play scav bowling. Bonus points to nail them all before or just as they hit the ground. (My best so far is getting a scav squad to land on top of my ship, at least one of them got launched so far up they never came down before I left)

 

[Elpapo]

Does nobody care that ship weapons cannot hurt a ground-based scavenger no matter how many multicannon rounds you fire at them?

You just need aim better, and keep those rounds keep hittin them, before thier shields regen kick in.

But better also just get out of ship, and go upclose, with like either any of g5 karma weps, and pointblank into any face a whole mag. Works every time.

On serious note, ship projectiles, unless its atleast sized 4, for multis alone, barely reach levels of onfoot counterparts for dps. But hitting such extreme small target(hitbox is few pixels wide, when from ship at 50+ meters above target), is another story, and npcs on foot, dont stay at place, even if they do, ship "auto-wiggle" unless FAOFF when near ground (wich gets worse if more G is), will make it enough difficult for anyone, even top aces of all cmdrs.

 

[Kallipar]

Melee'ing a ship is satisfying and effective; the seriously op'd weapon of choice against a Vette. Strap 3 to front of ship and apply absolute full kipper attack to a ship the size of a 4 story building....lol

 

[metatheurgist]

You can kill ground troops with lasers. The gravity wobble makes it hard on higher-g worlds though.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

They dont. New bulid is not done in vain.


Its preety much same "rules", as it is for ships.
Left such ship(the new vette) with 4 SYS, and it gonna take quite many mins, for entire npc squad done anything significant to it, before you would be done with your business at time.

On foot weapons, they deal exacly same type of dmg, as stated. Kinetic is kinetic, lasers deal thermal, L-6 is explosive and plasma is absolute. AP is low, as with high enough of hull hardness, onfoot weps seems to deal less dmg, save for L-6, when used vs hull, not shields... against bigger ships or those with high hull hardness.

Still, resist will works both for shields and hull, then there hull hardness itself, when shields go down. In other words, big ships, especially with really good hull, will last very long time.

AP of all on foot weapons is really low, but shields does not care about AP at all, so shields seems to take "harder", the dmg on foot weps can deliver, compared to hull.
Only L6 have somewhat higher AP, as its meant to be as anti-ship/anti-vechicle. (preety sure L6 do 100% dmg against hull of any ship)




It really depend what is attackin yours vette, and how many at once. I mean what kind on foot weapon it is and its level. At G5 they are quite nasty, most of them.

Many weapons, especially kinetics on foot, such as G5 AR-50 deals as much dmg as fixed c2 or gimball c3 multicannon per bullet, but with much higher ROF (10 per second), reload 3x as faster too(npcs got infinte ammo). If within range, no wonder if feels like hitting more harder than those security vipers. Every elite npc, uses G5 ones, given dmg they deal.

Other thing is, that npcs rarely attack an ship alone, as whatever npcs decide to do, they usually do it as a group, if there more than 2 of them.
They kinda work wich each other, not always, but when aggo, they often work as team. (I kinda like that about on foot ncps, btw, despite still them being dumb)

Thanks for the answers (and, you really should write a book)!

Good, will have to find a lvl 3 military settlement worthy of my new Vette (and also a reason to do so, maybe next cycle).

And yup, right on point, how a handheld weapon turns out to be more deadly than a ship mounted one (I know, gameplay).
May I use all these epoxy adhesives that I have collected to strap a few G5 Aphelion/AR-50 to my ship, maybe? Or use them once my canopy has blown up?

 

[zimms]

I also would like to understand how a lill' gun can damage my Corvette shield more than one of these Security ships hammering it with all it got...

In this image there are two weapons. The one on the left has more DPS.

Okay, I cheated a little. The Karma AR-50 is Grade 5 and the Huge Multicannon is gimballed. But come on...

Whatever Frontier tried to accomplish with the "Sphere of Combat" it didn't/doesn't work in my opinion. In my view, Elite always tried to appear somewhat realistic which is quite the contrast to how Frontier tried to balance Odyssey weapons (and the Scorpion). At least Horizons and Odyssey content are still largely separate so it doesn't come up a lot, but still...

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Drop mines and let gravity do the work.

 

[Elpapo]

In this image there are two weapons. The one on the left has more DPS.

Okay, I cheated a little. The Karma AR-50 is Grade 5 and the Huge Multicannon is gimballed. But come on...

Yep, an single shot from this weapon, should instakill any infrantry. See Helldivers 2, what happens, when something of such caliber hits an infantry.

Whatever Frontier tried to accomplish with the "Sphere of Combat" it didn't/doesn't work in my opinion. In my view, Elite always tried to appear somewhat realistic which is quite the contrast to how Frontier tried to balance Odyssey weapons (and the Scorpion). At least Horizons and Odyssey content are still largely separate so it doesn't come up a lot, but still...

Main issue is that oddy takes too much from already existing dmg/resist mechanics.
Oddy should had separate dmg types for ships and separate for on foot weps (ship kinetic/on-foot kinetics and rest not really should be sharing same resist mechanics...), and every and single on-foot suits and thier shields, should have default negative resistances to any kind of ship based weapons, given scale.

But good that atleast dumbfires and mines, do the trick, but because of AOE.

 

[GraXXoR]

Just Tried a pair of fixed medium beam lasers at less than 20m distance at ground level against a group of enemies that just had their shields taken out by a grenade.
Seemed to do almost zero damage.


It feels like there is at least a 10x nerf factor from ships to ground and a 10x buff factor from ground to ship. But between the 4 of them they managed to reduce the G5 thermal resistance enhanced shields with G5 resistance enhanced and G5 HD boosters on my vulture (resistances all about +40 down to nearly zero in less than a minute (FULL SYS PIPS) all while their shields rebooted and the beams depleted the capacitor.

So I got bored/worried in the end and I just gave them a tiny love tap with the front of my vulture and they all died instantly.

 

[GraXXoR]

Yep, an single shot from this weapon, should instakill any infrantry. See Helldivers 2, what happens, when something of such caliber hits an infantry.


Main issue is that oddy takes too much from already existing dmg/resist mechanics.
Oddy should had separate dmg types for ships and separate for on foot weps (ship kinetic/on-foot kinetics and rest not really should be sharing same resist mechanics...), and every and single on-foot suits and thier shields, should have default negative resistances to any kind of ship based weapons, given scale.

But good that atleast dumbfires and mines, do the trick, but because of AOE.

I'm certain many of us of a certain vintage have played table top RPGs using dice and endless tables read from thick tomes....
Back in the 80s we played a tabletop RPG that had three "tiers" that tied three separate almost standalone games set in a shared universe together.

1. on foot RPG with soldiers, mercs, assassins etc.
2. planetary vehicles and installations with cars, tanks, mechs etc.
3. space vehicles and installations with spaceships satellites and space stations etc.

Damage was applied using numbers of d6 with occasional minus or divide modifiers

On foot was the lowest tier and when applied against planetary vehicles, all the dice were reduced to a single point of damage and anything +3 or above was considered an extra point

3d6 -> 3 points
5d6 -> 5
3d6+3 -> 4 points
4d6 x 2 -> 8 points

Anything with any minus modifier lost 1 point.

3d6 - 3 -> 2 points
1d6 - 1 -> no points
2d6 / 2 -> 1 point

The same was applied when stepping up to spacefaring tier
every dice of planetary tier damage became a single point only in space tier.

Finally, handheld weapons had absolutely no effect on space tier by the stint that spaceships are designed to survive deep space with all its gamma radiation crushing G forces and multi km per second micro meteor impacts, thus a hand weapon's damage to spaceships would have been nonsense.

going down tiers was hilarious...
Each point of damage becomes a whole dice of damage in the lower tier.

A laser that did 3d6 damage in space would do between 3 and 18 D6 of damage to planetary tier!
and planetary tier doing 2d6 + 2 for example would do between 4 and 14 dice of damage to a soldier.

If a 3D6 spaceship weapon shot at a ground pounder, it would theoretically do (3d6)d6 worth of damage, so anything up to 18d6 damage (between 18 and 108 damage)... we usually just classed a hit as instakill except when we wanted a comedy moment.

This background in tabletop gaming is why I find the whole concept of a hand pistol damaging a Corvette immersion breaking.
I don't even think its "for balance" as a poster above mentioned.

Ground troops should have to pull out artillery or at least SRVs to damage ships. full stop...

Still, this game is what it is and I have no illusions that any major changes are incoming..

 

[DireWood]

Fascinating post. I am also curious in this. I would like to add also that the ground weapon used seems to be equally effective against ship shields/HP, regardless of it being Kinetic, energy or explosive. Basically a ground weapon firing bullets can strip my ship shield just as fast (seemingly) as a ground weapon firing lasers. It's rather immersion-breaking when someone can pew-pew your ship into oblivion with a few hits, yet a ship with naval-sized hardpoints has to unload an immense amount of ammo before doing any damage.

Can I strap a few ground weapons to the front of my ship, rather than using hardpoints perhaps? lol