Should we all not condemn ganking?
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Griefing perhaps.
Getting ganked in this game means you've made a mistake.
How you deal with that mistake is ofc up to you, using the tools we've all been given.
Despite claims that Open is empty, the Inara security reports show that there is plenty of PvP occurring at the usual hotspots and to date the game hasn't died.
Maybe it would be nice to have some specific PvP game loops though.
Why does anybody need to 'condemn' anything? (In the game I mean, it case it isn't obvious). Condemn don't condemn, no one condemns everyone condemns. Won't make any difference will it? Are you worried about gameplay or worried about an ideology? If you don't want to get ganked stay in solo. If you want to play with others but don't want to get ganked play in a player group. This thread is supposed to be about Power Play. Power Play is inherently a PvP mechanic and it should not be influenced outside of open.. in theory. The problem is that as a practical matter F'dev is too lazy or to inept to ensure misbehaviour is dealt with.
But it isn't , it never was . PP 1&2 is just filling up buckets, I can fill up buckets faster and more efficiently using the NPC's then spending time looking for a commander to blow up .
There are no bonus's for Commander kills or even any commander interaction. The game was originally made and sold to play in any mode it's not like it was PvP and then the other modes were added later ...
Exactly. Which is why just filling the buckets wasnt the point. nobody asked for a bucket filling mode. filling the buckets is purely there to create conflict.
And we have the perfect bucket filling comparison. Colonization, where the filling the buckets is the thing you do. Thats the gameplay, vs PP is supposed to be where the buckets are purely a facilitor for the actual loop, which is the fight amongst the powers. When PP loses the thing it supposed to facilitate, it suffers, which is why it would benefit from being open only. Let the solo and Pg players get their unlocks, but the merits should only influence the actual state of the galaxy if earned in open.
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But everything is a bucket filling mode in Elite ?
And it also doesn't really create conflict just a race to see who is fastest filling .
Killing 1 player isn't efficient not when 5 others got through ?
But killing 6 NPC and you are running evens.
And there is no guarantee that your connection will allow you to instance with other commanders .
If we want to be super reductive then everything is just a pushing a button. See? useless.
The intent of PP is conflict. the current setup, where solo and pg completely remove the possibility of it outside of filling buckets undermines it. Killing a player might not be "efficient" at earning merits, but it is disruptive. And youre right, already no guarantee with instancing so i see no reason to add to the pile of reasons we cant stop other powers by adding solo and pg to the list of issues
No, we are just saying there are certain players we don't want to play with and isn't it great how FD give us the option not to play with those people.
Yep, block and move on. No need for solo or pg, you're exactly right.
Strawman argument. I've always advocated for the use of PG/solo if you don't want to face such people.
It's not a straw man. Block is a sufficient tool to avoid specific people. That's all you need
Yes, as long as players can hide in solo it is limited to bucket filling. I think that is exactly the point most in the 'open only' camp are making. The point of open only isn't to grief or for the kill is to disrupt and to and more strategic depth. Even if it as little as forcing someone to actually put shields on their trade Cutter.
Er no. I don't care if folks want to play solo or PG. In fact I encourage them to. My only objection is that I don't want them influencing PP. If they want to stick to their bucket filling races they have BGS manipulation. I don't understand why they object to those that want more interaction having an option. I don't want anyone who doesn't want to play in open being forced to play in open. I don't care if there are more people in open or not. I don't need 'more targets' I'm largely a miner / trader. What I want is to be able to see what factions are doing. I want to be able to do recon on a system that suddenly has an activity spike. I don't consider those who don't want to play in open cowardly but when they want to influence PP from the safety of solo I do consider that petty and somewhat cowardly.
The strawman was suggesting that's what people should do, and I never advocated that. Use the argument with someone who is for/against doing it.
Heh, I need Solo every time there's a CG where the delivery location only has one large pad.
Frankly I find it baffling how people bend over backwards to squish the simple concept of "I don't want to play with you (not even once to put you on my block list) " into whatever fits their narrative.
There are different kinds of conflict.
The kinetic kind (war) is one.
Then there is the trade conflict. Buying, selling goods, dominating markets. This can be more effective that the kind above. And there be no shooting.
Some of us want one kind, some another. IMO if you want to be successful (and efficient), time is better spent on the peaceful way.
Given the time zones, player density and instancing etc why waste time looking for a fight, unless your goal is to destroy others without a care for the bigger picture.
The kinetic kind (war) is one.
Then there is the trade conflict. Buying, selling goods, dominating markets. This can be more effective that the kind above. And there be no shooting.
Some of us want one kind, some another. IMO if you want to be successful (and efficient), time is better spent on the peaceful way.
Given the time zones, player density and instancing etc why waste time looking for a fight, unless your goal is to destroy others without a care for the bigger picture.
I'd prefer both. Sadly we don't have either one.
Well, don't get me wrong, I'm not against FD adding a PvP-based activity into the game; I might even dabble myself if they do. But PP simply isn't it. Such an activity needs to be something no-one but PvP enthusiasts want to do. There are IMO several reasons why FD can never make PP Open-only:
* They never said it would be. This expectation that PP would be OO is just something that some players have talked themselves into. There are no quotable instances where FD said it was their intention, and to do it now would be a huge revamp (OK, but not impossible; there's just no sign that they plan it).
* There would be obvious workarounds: various combinations of flying in Solo and relogging to Open to hand in. FD would have a lot of coding to do to adminster this and close loopholes... and they'd introduce bugs. Imagine the salt when someone thinks his contribution didn't get counted and suspects it was a bug which dropped his invisible "open-only" flag, but can't prove it.
* Assuming all that coding went perfectly right, FD still can't risk making anything Solo players want to do Open-only. If there was an incentive to fly in Open, Solo players not wanting to meet others could simply switch to flying in Open and blocking every hollow square they see. Or they could just do the opposite of everything the "Port Forwarding Thread" says in their routers. Be careful what you wish for: this would ruin P2P instancing for all of us. It's better if they stay in Solo.
It's an idea that comes up regularly, but it can't be done.
So you want Fdev to make something nobody wants just so that the precious solo player can't perceive themselves to be inconvenienced. Insane. This list of criteria is absurd.
I don't know if you noticed, but a big appeal of PP being open only is that it allows us to play the game and in doing so for our power encounter other powers pledges and interact dynamically. Nobody is asking for hyper PVP enthusiast specific thing. Cqc failed because it is separate from the game entirely, and you're saying that the only acceptable thing is another cqc, because it solo players want to engage in it, and have to consider maybe leaving solo, that's unacceptable. Laughable.