More and Deep Gameplay Loops (Ideas)

[Cosmo]

ED has a solid foundation, but some gameplay loops need depth and new ones should be added. Here's some ideas:

1. Architect can manage system security and hire NPCs.
2. Architect can setup a refinery and factory for the production of goods and components.
   1. Requires raw materials and/or data.
   2. If you have multiple colonies: 1 colony could prioritize production of certain goods and transport it to another colony to fill a shortage.
   3. Storage depots at a colony for faster import and export.
   4. Hire NPCs for hauling reduces the grind. This is balanced by a higher cost and slower delivery.
3. Terraform planets.
   1. A barren planet can be transformed with patches of flora and fauna and eventually become an Earth-like world.
4. On-foot combat needs to be overhauled.
   1. The switching between weapons for shields is tedious. Switching weapons should not be required.
   2. Add more weapons, armors and carry capacity.
   3. The NPCs are too bullet spongy.
5. Customize stations, facilities (interior and exterior).
   1. Personalization makes players care more and each colony would be unique. Now all the facility types look nearly identical.
6. Alternative options to hauling for colonization (there is too much grind):
   1. Protect NPC traders from pirates at a construction site (on-foot and ship combat).
      1. Safe arrival of traders increases the percentage of delivered commodities to build a facility.
   2. Escort freighters with high value cargo.
7. More interaction with NPCs in stations and surface facilities.
   1. Use AI for deep conversations with NPCs (for example in the Matrix Awakens, Unreal Engine 5).
8. More planet types to explore increases the depth of the exploration loop.
   1. People get bored of 99% barren planets.
   2. Gas giants with refineries benefit nearby colonies.
   3. Water worlds have lots of flora and fauna to feed colonies on barren worlds.
9. Walking inside ships enables new roleplay and ship management loops.
10. Boarding outposts, stations and megaships.
    1. Repair outposts via docking and on-foot boarding.
    2. Clear Thargoid infested outposts and megaships on-foot.
    3. Cave exploration for minerals.
    4. Salvage valuable items at an abandoned outpost or megaship.
    5. Raid an outpost, station or megaship.
       1. Disable defenses, dock and board it. Explore and fight to get rewards at a vault, laboratory etc. This could be solo or with a squadron.
11. Shorter hyperspace routes.
    1. Mapping and selling the data to Universal Cartographics.
12. Create custom race courses by placing beacons on a planet.

These features would improve the sandbox depth, player activity and longevity.

 

[aRJay]

ED has a solid foundation, but some gameplay loops need depth and new ones should be added. Here's some ideas:

1. Architect can manage system security and hire NPCs.

No that is the responsibility of the factions in charge of the system not the architect they hired to build things for them.

1. Architect can setup a refinery and factory for the production of goods and components.
   1. Requires raw materials and/or data.
   2. If you have multiple colonies: 1 colony could prioritize production of certain goods and transport it to another colony to fill a shortage.
   3. Storage depots at a colony for faster import and export.
   4. Hire NPCs for hauling reduces the grind. This is balanced by a higher cost and slower delivery.

Feels more like automating things so there is less to do.

1. Terraform planets.
   1. A barren planet can be transformed with patches of flora and fauna and eventually become an Earth-like world.

Yes but it would be better if we could land on the planets and keeping in mind we are not god like beings the time taken in game should be a reflection of the centuries or more likely millennia required. So maybe an effort equivalent to a T3 build each month for six months to get the process started.
Earth Like Worlds are big.

• On-foot combat needs to be overhauled.
  1. The switching between weapons for shields is tedious. Switching weapons should not be required.
  2. Add more weapons, armors and carry capacity.
  3. The NPCs are too bullet spongy.

Then the complaints that shields and armour are too week start to come in plus NPCs are too easy.

• Customize stations, facilities (interior and exterior).
  1. Personalization makes players care more and each colony would be unique. Now all the facility types look nearly identical.

Yes, but other than cosmetics they are supposed to be nearly identical just as all Boeing NNNs are identical they are all from one supplier.

• Alternative options to hauling for colonization (there is too much grind):
  1. Protect NPC traders from pirates at a construction site (on-foot and ship combat).
     1. Safe arrival of traders increases the percentage of delivered commodities to build a facility.
  2. Escort freighters with high value cargo.

Unlikely to happen.

• More interaction with NPCs in stations and surface facilities.
  1. Use AI for deep conversations with NPCs (for example in the Matrix Awakens, Unreal Engine 5).
• More planet types to explore increases the depth of the exploration loop.
  1. People get bored of 99% barren planets.
  2. Gas giants with refineries benefit nearby colonies.
  3. Water worlds have lots of flora and fauna to feed colonies on barren worlds.

Yes access to denser atmosphere planets could lead to all of those eventually.

• Walking inside ships enables new roleplay and ship management loops.
• Boarding outposts, stations and megaships.
  1. Repair outposts via docking and on-foot boarding.
  2. Clear Thargoid infested outposts and megaships on-foot.
  3. Cave exploration for minerals.
  4. Salvage valuable items at an abandoned outpost or megaship.
  5. Raid an outpost, station or megaship.
     1. Disable defenses, dock and board it. Explore and fight to get rewards at a vault, laboratory etc. This could be solo or with a squadron.

Much later for most of these, caves requiring a different planet surface generation as I understand it.

• Shorter hyperspace routes.
  1. Mapping and selling the data to Universal Cartographics.

No.

• Create custom race courses by placing beacons on a planet.

Yes you could even use the beacons to find stuff on the planet again.

These features would improve the sandbox depth, player activity and longevity.

Some of them maybe.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I do like the idea of adding more depth to various activities. Currently it seems many of the activities the player spends a bunch of time to complete an activity... then its done never to be revisited.

Examples:

• Imperial rank - Get the Cutter... then what?
• Federal Rank - Get the Corvette... then what?
• Powerplay ranks - Reach 100... then what?
• Building a colony - Fill the slots, then what? Done. Maybe abandon and start a new one?

Maybe it depends on the player and the amount of roleplay is self-implemented. For me it seems like many of the activities are dead-ends once completed.

Off topic... but it seems many of the activities are intuitively in conflict with each other... which makes no sense. Ranking up with the Feds while I am an Admiral for the Empire, but I am aligned with Nakato Kaine Alliance and I am building a colony filled with minor factions aligned with someone else? And then I jump into a Community Goal for somebody else again. Its all mixed up and makes no sense. The only effective roleplay to explain all this my cmdr must be a self-centered opportunist with no actual allegiances ot ties to anything and willing to betray anything at anytime.

 

[Riks]

Ranking up with the Feds while I am an Admiral for the Empire, but I am aligned with Nakato Kaine Alliance and I am building a colony filled with minor factions aligned with someone else? And then I jump into a Community Goal for somebody else again.

The only explanation is that we don't really have a tie to superpowers. If you look to previous discussions on the topic of superpower ranks, people conclude they're just honorary titles, not actual military titles.
Your alignment with Nakato Kaine is political though, as you're supporting her expansion- but without any context it's undoubtedly strictly transactional, as she gives you rewards and benefits from her faction according to how much you support her.
I'd love to see something more personalized in these alliances and rankings to be honest.

• Imperial rank - Get the Cutter... then what?
• Federal Rank - Get the Corvette... then what?

Adding to this, I'd love to having a superpower acknowledge CMDRs arrival, like: "Attention, an Admiral/King CMDR has joined the fight! For the Federation/Empire!"
Something that'd fit a sorts of Combat Zone with two super power capital ships like in the old trailers.
Would be a great place for CMDRs to pvp too, as long as they're on opposite sides.

6. Alternative options to hauling for colonization (there is too much grind):

1. Protect NPC traders from pirates at a construction site (on-foot and ship combat).
   1. Safe arrival of traders increases the percentage of delivered commodities to build a facility.
2. Escort freighters with high value cargo.

Also, having general ways to increase "security" of a colonization system would be nice:

• In a colonzation system, if CMDRs patrol or do bountyhunting activity, it could add to a score of system security, that would be nice.
• Include "NPC visitors" on settlements in ships and on-foot, which when scanned, found with bounties and taken down, increases system security.

Basically, making the architect and other bounty hunters clear away crime networks in vulnerable systems... which would in turn help the NPCs colonize the system.

 

[aRJay]

I do like the idea of adding more depth to various activities. Currently it seems many of the activities the player spends a bunch of time to complete an activity... then its done never to be revisited.

Examples:

• Imperial rank - Get the Cutter... then what?

Use it when appropriate.

• Federal Rank - Get the Corvette... then what?

Use one or other of them as appropriate.

• Powerplay ranks - Reach 100... then what?

Ignore from start.

• Building a colony - Fill the slots, then what? Done. Maybe abandon and start a new one?

Still deciding on what or where my second station/etc will be. But next colony try for something different or just better if I enjoy this one enough.

Maybe it depends on the player and the amount of roleplay is self-implemented. For me it seems like many of the activities are dead-ends once completed.

That could be from focussing on the destination rather than the journey.

Off topic... but it seems many of the activities are intuitively in conflict with each other... which makes no sense. Ranking up with the Feds while I am an Admiral for the Empire, but I am aligned with Nakato Kaine Alliance and I am building a colony filled with minor factions aligned with someone else? And then I jump into a Community Goal for somebody else again. Its all mixed up and makes no sense. The only effective roleplay to explain all this my cmdr must be a self-centered opportunist with no actual allegiances ot ties to anything and willing to betray anything at anytime.

Exactly you are a credit to the Pilots Federation, just remember not to speak of this insight to non-members.

 

[Greasetrap42]

That could be from focussing on the destination rather than the journey.

What I am describing is journeys that have an ending. Sure the journey is great. But activities like Imperial Rank, Federal Rank, Powerplay Rank, all have an ending which the player eventually arrives at. It is then done. These are discrete activities with a beginning, a journey, and an end. You can't focus on a journey when it is done. There is no longer a reason to be friends with the Empire, or help Nakato Kaine. Furthering the relationship is pointless... and faced with a tasty CG I will backstab previous allegiances in a heartbeat.

To the OP's point, if some depth was added to these activities they wouldn't need to come to an end. There could be value in continuing relationships, instead of just dropping them when they are no longer advantageous or convenient[1].


[1] Of course most players will likely not drop (unpledge) their Powerplay power. They will just stop doing the activities.

 

[Cosmo]

What I am describing is journeys that have an ending. Sure the journey is great. But activities like Imperial Rank, Federal Rank, Powerplay Rank, all have an ending which the player eventually arrives at. It is then done. These are discrete activities with a beginning, a journey, and an end. You can't focus on a journey when it is done. There is no longer a reason to be friends with the Empire, or help Nakato Kaine. Furthering the relationship is pointless... and faced with a tasty CG I will backstab previous allegiances in a heartbeat.

To the OP's point, if some depth was added to these activities they wouldn't need to come to an end. There could be value in continuing relationships, instead of just dropping them when they are no longer advantageous or convenient[1].

[1] Of course most players will likely not drop (unpledge) their Powerplay power. They will just stop doing the activities.

Do you have suggestions for how to improve the journey?

 

[BackToTheMud]

• Imperial rank - Get the Cutter... then what?
• Federal Rank - Get the Corvette... then what?

Fly them, realise they make the game really boring, and start spending all of your time in a Keelback instead.

I think they should put a lot more effort into missions and the mission runner loop.

 

[Greasetrap42]

• Imperial rank - Get the Cutter... then what?
• Federal Rank - Get the Corvette... then what?

Fly them, realise they make the game really boring, and start spending all of your time in a Keelback instead.

I think you are missing the point. Obviously the cmdr walks away with the reward. We are talking about the gameloop activity that comes to an abrupt end once the reward is obtained. Because the relationship is simply based around a singular specific reward.

Get the Cutter... then what? Start working for the Federation... then what? Drop them and start working for a PowerPlay power... then what? Drop that and build up a colony system... then what? Drop that and start building another colony.... then what? Drop that and align with some other power for a CG... or whatever new thing gets dropped into the game.

The point being the major game loop activities are very shallow and get abandoned once the player has achieved the reward. The OP is suggesting ways to keep the major game loops active, relevant, and exciting.

These features would improve the sandbox depth, player activity and longevity.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Do you have suggestions for how to improve the journey?

Make the journey more than about receiving a singular reward. Make it so the player wants to continue the journey after the reward. Keep the journey going. Get the player invested in whatever the major gameloop activity is.

Example: Powerplay
Currently:
The player interacts with absolutely nobody from the power. Okay, some crumby generic photos are displayed on the mission board. But there is no relationship established. I never see anybody of significance. There is nothing that builds a sense of loyalty to the pledged power. There are no bonds with the NPCs. And nothing that ties the player to them. Overall the missions are a bunch of dry messages requesting the player to fulfill various contracts. That's it. Contracts with miscellaneous NPCs that we ignore. Once the contract is fullfilled.... move on. Extremely dry.

Example Alternative:
Have a Powerplay contact that actually interacts with us. A 3D modeled NPC that gives us special ranking-up missions and special requests. And hands us rewards. We get out of our ship (yes Odyssey only) and walk to them... giving station interiors a purpose. This doesn't replace the mission board, it is in addition to it. Maybe we get to actually visit the Powerplay leader, or one of their underlings. If this all seems like too much for Frontier to develop.... have it take place in the station lounge. Whatever. Make the player feel invested in the power they pledged to. Create a bond with the player.

Example Rewards:
Power specific that are based on cmdr behaviour. And aimed at furthering a bond with the pledged power.
Notice these rewards are for cmdrs that remain at least somewhat active and on good terms with their pledged power.

• Power specific ship paint job.
• Power specific uniform.
• Access to a power specific NPC copilot crew. That actually joins you in the ship!
• Ability to have some power specific NPC crew on your fleet carrier. That actually joins you in the carrier!
• Random NPCs on stations that are power aligned and acknowledge your existence.

This is all aimed at giving the player the illusion (yes it is a video game) that the power they pledged to matters. And there is a relationship worth continuing.