Revisit the idea of instantaneous transfers

[Jmanis]

This game may have heavy sim elements, but it is again: A GAME. Making sacrifices of accuracy to allow for real life constraints is just good design. Not everyone has all the time in the world to spend on this game. Having real world timers that prevent you from playing is a terrible way to keep people engaged. Besides, again, if it was implemented tomorrow that things suddenly transferred instantly, would you petition to change it back?

Yep, it's a game.

A game which, bluntly, had a bunch of fitting options and considerations removed when transfers were introduced, so I'd personally love to see them gone again to bring back some of that game aspect. #unpopularopinions

Replace it with the ability to transfer to your/Vanguard FC only.

 

[Screemonster]

Honestly, given the forums are a minority of a minority of the playerbase who nevertheless have extremely strong opinions on how the game should be designed, the only real answer to this debate is a data-driven one. Not an in-game poll or anything like that, since people constantly monkey's paw themselves in game dev votes.

You want to know much do people actually like this mechanic? How many people find it engaging?

Every transfer is a transaction on the database, so it'll be in the server logs.
What fdev need to so is look up every time a ship or module has been transferred in whatever timeframe they feel like covering, how long the transfer took, and the player in question's activity in that frame.

Find out what percentage of those transfers had the player still logged in when the transfer completed. What percentage of those had the player actually do something in-game in the meantime. Is there a hard correlation between those answers and the transfer times? Do people outside of these forums actually routinely keep playing while they wait for their stuff to transfer, or do they just go AFK or log out?

Make the decision based on that, not whoever's loudest in some forum argument.

 

[Jmanis]

Honestly, given the forums are a minority of a minority of the playerbase who nevertheless have extremely strong opinions on how the game should be designed, the only real answer to this debate is a data-driven one. Not an in-game poll or anything like that, since people constantly monkey's paw themselves in game dev votes.

You want to know much do people actually like this mechanic? How many people find it engaging?

Every transfer is a transaction on the database, so it'll be in the server logs.
What fdev need to so is look up every time a ship or module has been transferred in whatever timeframe they feel like covering, how long the transfer took, and the player in question's activity in that frame.

Find out what percentage of those transfers had the player still logged in when the transfer completed. What percentage of those had the player actually do something in-game in the meantime. Is there a hard correlation between those answers and the transfer times? Do people outside of these forums actually routinely keep playing while they wait for their stuff to transfer, or do they just go AFK or log out?

Make the decision based on that, not whoever's loudest in some forum argument.

It bears mentioning though... even those figures will be biased... how much use of ship transfers is simply because it exists? As an example, i never wanted Odyssey, and thought it was a bad idea. I still stand by that today, even though i play Odyssey content and enjoy it.

A car business shouldn't open a side gig in selling mints simply because their customers almost always accept a mint when offered for free.

I use ship transfers simply because it exists. In many games, i won't use fast travel options as a general means of moving about, because there's side quests and other activities to be had along the way which make it worthwhile.

This is not the case with Elite... uss are not worth the effort, missions are tethered to docking at stations at start and finish, and the supercruise/ travel considerations as far as environmental or other hazards are virtually non- existent.

Ship transfers are, imo, tacit acknowledgement that as far as FD is concerned, the journey doesn't matter, and that's the bigger problem for ED, a game about the exploring a very large universe, than whether or not ship transfers are instantaneous.

 

[IcewindZG]

Make the decision based on that, not whoever's loudest in some forum argument.

That is actually a really good idea. Loud voices make a lot of noise, but data doesn't care who's noisy, it gives what is happening. If it is found that a majority of people AFK or log out after transfers, then there is a solid case for instant transfer. If the vast majority find another task for the transfer duration, perhaps the request is unnecessary.

Being pragmatic here, would instant transfers make the galaxy feel smaller? Maybe. But that's already happening and instant transfers would respect people's time better. Elite needs players to be interested enough to buy ARX. That happens when they're able to justify the game. Elite doesn't exist in a vacuum without other games. Sure, it's the most complete space game out there, but that could change and the balance would be shaken up. Elite's not just competing against space games. Elite is competing with every game out there, and also with real life.

 

[Screemonster]

If it is found that a majority of people AFK or log out after transfers, then there is a solid case for instant transfer. If the vast majority find another task for the transfer duration, perhaps the request is unnecessary.

There's also the relationship to how long the transfer time is - the minimum duration is five minutes, which isn't a significant enough delay to really impose any logistical challenges upon gameplay, nor is it long enough to have time to really do anything in the meantime, but it's really not enough of a delay to be worth logging out over and coming back to the game when it's done so my gut says that at that end of the scale we'd see a lot of people just going afk for a cuppa. It's basically an ad break in terms of duration.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Honestly, given the forums are a minority of a minority of the playerbase who nevertheless have extremely strong opinions on how the game should be designed, the only real answer to this debate is a data-driven one. Not an in-game poll or anything like that, since people constantly monkey's paw themselves in game dev votes.

You want to know much do people actually like this mechanic? How many people find it engaging?

Every transfer is a transaction on the database, so it'll be in the server logs.
What fdev need to so is look up every time a ship or module has been transferred in whatever timeframe they feel like covering, how long the transfer took, and the player in question's activity in that frame.

Find out what percentage of those transfers had the player still logged in when the transfer completed. What percentage of those had the player actually do something in-game in the meantime. Is there a hard correlation between those answers and the transfer times? Do people outside of these forums actually routinely keep playing while they wait for their stuff to transfer, or do they just go AFK or log out?

Make the decision based on that, not whoever's loudest in some forum argument.

Another way to do it (and not just in relation to transfer times) is to do A/B testing. Release a new feature or modify an existing one, but roll it out to half the players. Then compare feedback from the two groups. Not really doable though for an online game like ED, unless you want to split the playerbase during the testing, not to mention it adds extra effort for the devs.

Speaking personally, when waiting for a ship to arrive, it depends a lot on what i'm doing. A lot of the time i can just do some combat or whatever my current ship is kitted for while I wait, or if its a relatively short duration, go grab a coffee and check my emails or post some rubbish on the forums. These days though, since the introduction of FCs, its rare i actually go anywhere without my FC, therefore all my ships are always with me, its rare for me to actually use the ship transfer feature.

The question these days is more what do i do while waiting for the FC to jump, and since its normally 15 mins, its not really time enough to head off doing something else, i don't want to miss the boat.

 

[aRJay]

This game may have heavy sim elements, but it is again: A GAME. Making sacrifices of accuracy to allow for real life constraints is just good design. Not everyone has all the time in the world to spend on this game. Having real world timers that prevent you from playing is a terrible way to keep people engaged. Besides, again, if it was implemented tomorrow that things suddenly transferred instantly, would you petition to change it back?

I might not organise such a petition but would support a call to change things back.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

The "it's a game" argument can be applied to literally anything. Wonder why we have any restrictions in any game at all. After all, it's just a game! You can squash any discussion with that argument.

 

[aRJay]

That is actually a really good idea. Loud voices make a lot of noise, but data doesn't care who's noisy, it gives what is happening. If it is found that a majority of people AFK or log out after transfers, then there is a solid case for instant transfer. If the vast majority find another task for the transfer duration, perhaps the request is unnecessary.

They would need to be much more snoopy than that and correlate the transfer time along with how long that player generally plays for in a session without transfers.

Being pragmatic here, would instant transfers make the galaxy feel smaller? Maybe. But that's already happening and instant transfers would respect people's time better. Elite needs players to be interested enough to buy ARX. That happens when they're able to justify the game. Elite doesn't exist in a vacuum without other games. Sure, it's the most complete space game out there, but that could change and the balance would be shaken up. Elite's not just competing against space games. Elite is competing with every game out there, and also with real life.

 

[Frankymole]

That is actually a really good idea. Loud voices make a lot of noise, but data doesn't care who's noisy, it gives what is happening. If it is found that a majority of people AFK or log out after transfers, then there is a solid case for instant transfer. If the vast majority find another task for the transfer duration, perhaps the request is unnecessary.

The "it's a game" argument can be applied to literally anything. Wonder why we have any restrictions in any game at all. After all, it's just a game! You can squash any discussion with that argument.

We just need an "I win" button.
Why would ships not insta-jump across the entire galaxy when you're flying them, if they do it when Inter Astra pilots bring them to you?
Are people advocating removing all jump distances from the game? They all "waste time".

 

[Brrokk]

... If it is found that a majority of people AFK or log out after transfers, then there is a solid case for instant transfer. If the vast majority find another task for the transfer duration, perhaps the request is unnecessary.
...

I suspect these data wouldn't help a lot. Given the present mechanic, many of us deliberately plan to finish a play session with a transfer request, having made use of the journey to the destination station in various ways. Logouts immediately after the request are therefore part of the plan, not because of frustration. Such planning is actually gameplay, (a good game gives you dilemmas and choices with consequences; that's what makes it interesting).

 

[Screemonster]

We just need an "I win" button.
Why would ships not insta-jump across the entire galaxy when you're flying them, if they do it when Inter Astra pilots bring them to you?
Are people advocating removing all jump distances from the game? They all "waste time".

You know, it's possible to make an argument about why you like something without devolving into condescending sneering.

Literally nobody is asking for those things.

 

[Frankymole]

You know, it's possible to make an argument about why you like something without devolving into condescending sneering.

That's your interpretation. Your inference is not my implication.

 

[IcewindZG]

We just need an "I win" button.
Why would ships not insta-jump across the entire galaxy when you're flying them, if they do it when Inter Astra pilots bring them to you?
Are people advocating removing all jump distances from the game? They all "waste time".

I mean, it's nice that you admit you don't have anything better in your life to do than wait on things in this GAME, but some of us actually have lives. If everyone has the option to pay to transfer their ship immediately, how is that an "I WIN" button? The only comments I see decrying the merits are at best straw man and at worst outright lies. If there was truly a good reason not to implement this, I'm sure someone would make a cohesive argument rather than vague sarcastic remarks.

Once you can present a cohesive reasoning, come back and present it. Until then, you're just noise from a fly buzzing around the lamp.

 

[IcewindZG]

Another way to do it (and not just in relation to transfer times) is to do A/B testing. Release a new feature or modify an existing one, but roll it out to half the players. Then compare feedback from the two groups. Not really doable though for an online game like ED, unless you want to split the playerbase during the testing, not to mention it adds extra effort for the devs.

Speaking personally, when waiting for a ship to arrive, it depends a lot on what i'm doing. A lot of the time i can just do some combat or whatever my current ship is kitted for while I wait, or if its a relatively short duration, go grab a coffee and check my emails or post some rubbish on the forums. These days though, since the introduction of FCs, its rare i actually go anywhere without my FC, therefore all my ships are always with me, its rare for me to actually use the ship transfer feature.

The question these days is more what do i do while waiting for the FC to jump, and since its normally 15 mins, its not really time enough to head off doing something else, i don't want to miss the boat.

With having a fleet carrier, it seems like it's a very similar experience to what it would be like having instant transfers. All your things are THERE, when you're ready for them. No wait times, no travel, just install and continue. From the depiction it doesn't sound like having immediate access to the items stored on your carrier negatively affects your gameplay. Almost the opposite.

If someone really wants to wait, then let them initiate the transfer and go to the bathroom so they can impose their own timer.

The 15 minute timer does seem to be that perfect blend of too short to do something and too long to not mind. At least with the carriers I understand it's to help the server load.