Latest CG, the clearest example of P2W in ED to date?

Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
I rather doubt anyone in the top 10, Panther Clipper or not, could be considered a 'new player'.
Even if they have the PC they're still going to have to source the commodities in bulk, which listening into syschat seems to be taxing quite a lot of participants.
then of course you have the factor of available time, but here an experienced player will be able to make more efficient use of the time they have.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
From Burr's latest video:

"There's no two ways about it, this CG has absoloutely been designed and engineered specifically to encourage more sales of the Panther Clipper, and in offering the cargo rack rewards for essentially spending money in the game, Frontier is pushing extremely close, possibly over, the line of Pay to Win."

Thank you CMDR Burr.
 

Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Agony_Aunt said:
I understand you not wanting to read the previous posts. Problem with that is, all your points have been addressed one way or another.

But since you didn't want to read any of the rebuttals already made, I won't bother posting them again in reply to you :p
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That'a a less mature response than I expected from you. I already said I know my reply might be redundant, but I wanted to offer my view anyway. Make of that what you will.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Felix DiCestria said:
I rather doubt anyone in the top 10, Panther Clipper or not, could be considered a 'new player'.
Even if they have the PC they're still going to have to source the commodities in bulk, which listening into syschat seems to be taxing quite a lot of participants.
then of course you have the factor of available time, but here an experienced player will be able to make more efficient use of the time they have.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest difference with new players is they won't have a Fleet Carrier even if they shelled out for the PC.

With a FC you can park on the other side of the bubble where there are still plenty of resources, fill up, then find a parking slot a jump or two from Minerva to make your deliveries. Without a FC, sourcing stuff is going to take longer and you're going to have to travel further.
 

Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Agony_Aunt said:
From Burr's latest video:

"There's no two ways about it, this CG has absoloutely been designed and engineered specifically to encourage more sales of the Panther Clipper, and in offering the cargo rack rewards for essentially spending money in the game, Frontier is pushing extremely close, possibly over, the line of Pay to Win."

Thank you CMDR Burr.
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That's just, like, his opinion man.

You will not need a PC to reach the 75% target. Is a hauling CG with a juicy reward an incentive for the product they just released? Probably. But insinuating you need a PC to "win" the rewards is kind of ridiculous considering the introduction of the PC didn't exactly banish Cutters and T-9s from the game.
 
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Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
Agony_Aunt said:
I think the biggest difference with new players is they won't have a Fleet Carrier even if they shelled out for the PC.

With a FC you can park on the other side of the bubble where there are still plenty of resources, fill up, then find a parking slot a jump or two from Minerva to make your deliveries. Without a FC, sourcing stuff is going to take longer and you're going to have to travel further.
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Of course though even then it's apparently quicker to jump back and forth to the other side of the Bubble than to use a carrier, and of course far quicker than to try scrounging round all the empty systems nearby.
Of course you could have built your own supply not listed on Inara at all...
 

Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Agony_Aunt said:
Yeah, sometimes things fall flat.
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tenor.gif
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Felix DiCestria said:
Of course though even then it's apparently quicker to jump back and forth to the other side of the Bubble than to use a carrier, and of course far quicker than to try scrounging round all the empty systems nearby.
Of course you could have built your own supply not listed on Inara at all...
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Guess it depends on the ship, but I wouldn't fancy doing that in a Type 9 at least.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Helmut Grokenberger said:
That's just, like, his opinion man.

You will not need a PC to reach the 75% target. Is a hauling CG with a juicy reward an incentive for the product they just released? Probably. But insinuating you need a PC to "win" the rewards is kind of ridiculous considering the introduction of the PC didn't exactly banish Cutters and T-9s from the game.
Click to expand...

That isn't his (or my) point that a PC is needed to reach 75%. It does make reaching 75% easier though. Go watch the video for a fuller context of what he's saying.
 

Helmut Grokenberger

Helmut Grokenberger
Agony_Aunt said:
That isn't his (or my) point that a PC is needed to reach 75%. It does make reaching 75% easier though. Go watch the video for a fuller context of what he's saying.
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If the quote above is verbatim from the video, that's good enough for me. It's a pretty clear insinuation. Apart from the P2W discussion, of course the CG is an incentive to push the sales of the EA PC. Frontier would be stupid if they didn't. I would do it.
 

SteveWW57

SteveWW57
Agony_Aunt said:
I think the biggest difference with new players is they won't have a Fleet Carrier even if they shelled out for the PC.

With a FC you can park on the other side of the bubble where there are still plenty of resources, fill up, then find a parking slot a jump or two from Minerva to make your deliveries. Without a FC, sourcing stuff is going to take longer and you're going to have to travel further.
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There are currently readily available sources of what is needed no more than 2 jumps away. Give it a few days and that might change.
 

Morbad

Morbad
I think this CG is another example of pay-to-win, but far from the most blatant.

Simply being able to deploy pre-built ships at no cost, from any shipyard, is the clearest and most persistent example related to these ships, IMO. For any use that doesn't mandate protracted combat this is functionally an instantaneous transfer of a capable mission runner that can be immediately employed toward grinding out influence, merits, CG deliveries, or carrier fuel...then disposed of, if necessary, with no downsides. For cargo runs, one doesn't even need to make the return trip because destroying the ship and spawning a new one at a carrier is faster. This advantage exists independently of, and persists past, the early access period.

Anyway, Frontier crossed the line back in 2012-2014 when they sold in-game advantages with their Kickstarter and beta backer bundles. They then extended this with tactically advantageous 'cosmetics' until nightvision rendered those moot. Even the expansions were pay-to-win; Horizons blatantly so, as Engineering was inaccessible without it. Forever ships for Arx is just the most recent incarnation...not that it's any more excusable, it's just not new.
 

Brrokk

Brrokk
Agony_Aunt said:
I think the biggest difference with new players is they won't have a Fleet Carrier even if they shelled out for the PC.

With a FC you can park on the other side of the bubble where there are still plenty of resources, fill up, then find a parking slot a jump or two from Minerva to make your deliveries. Without a FC, sourcing stuff is going to take longer and you're going to have to travel further.
Click to expand...
In this CG a fleet carrier is no advantage at all.

Using a carrier means you have to shift every ton twice instead of once. In cases of many jumps or long SC to stations that might be worthwhile, but in this CG neither of those factors apply. It's only half the time to haul straight.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Morbad said:
I think this CG is another example of pay-to-win, but far from the most blatant.

Simply being able to deploy pre-built ships at no cost, from any shipyard, is the clearest and most persistent example related to these ships, IMO. For any use that doesn't mandate protracted combat this is functionally an instantaneous transfer of a capable mission runner that can be immediately employed toward grinding out influence, merits, CG deliveries, or carrier fuel...then disposed of, if necessary, with no downsides. For cargo runs, one doesn't even need to make the return trip because destroying the ship and spawning a new one at a carrier is faster. This advantage exists independently of, and persists past, the early access period.

Anyway, Frontier crossed the line back in 2012-2014 when they sold in-game advantages with their Kickstarter and beta backer bundles. They then extended this with tactically advantageous 'cosmetics' until nightvision rendered those moot. Even the expansions were pay-to-win; Horizons blatantly so, as Engineering was inaccessible without it. Forever ships for Arx is just the most recent incarnation...not that it's any more excusable, it's just not new.
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Wow, thank you for someone actually directly answering the question.

I never even really thought about the deploying and destroying the pre-built ships, thinking as soon as you deployed you'd want to modify/engineer and then wouldn't want to destroy... but yes, now you mention it, I can see situations where you wouldn't care about it.
 

Nidoboros

N
Brrokk said:
In this CG a fleet carrier is no advantage at all.

Using a carrier means you have to shift every ton twice instead of once. In cases of many jumps or long SC to stations that might be worthwhile, but in this CG neither of those factors apply. It's only half the time to haul straight.
Click to expand...
Depends on if you luck out and can drop a carrier next to the station.
 
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