Balance issues with combat that I've noticed

[Phaaded]

You obviously have not fought decent players in larger ships in PvP so maybe quit with the name calling and actually get some more experience before spouting your mouth off?

Shield cells are almost useless against a ship with large hard point Rail guns i should know as i have the ability to use 27 of them and it makes zero difference

Seems you need to calm down a bit in general, avoiding the auto mod and using profanity in threads only makes you come across like a child.

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Its not a PvP game and balance is not something of importance when players can get massive advantages with larger more powerful and vastly more expensive ships. By design balance -between ships of different costs- is not something that Elite is attempting to achieve.

You lose because you don't believe balance is important.

Edit: You being so butt-hurt make me smile. Please, grow up. One semi profane word does not make my argument invalid.

Adults know how to deal with a "cuss word".

 

[Nerdwing]

Without a degree of balance, there will be an optimum fit for a ship for any circumstance. A best general purpose "best in slot" configuration, ala MMO's. By balancing the pro's and cons of various weapons and subsystems, a player can in turn be made to prioritize their ship towards the specific task they're engaging in in a way much like balancing your fits currently allows, but on a potentially finer degree.

Balance doesnt necessarily only refer to PVP.

 

[SuBSynk]

You lose because you don't believe balance is important.

Balance a 100 million ship vs a 200k one?!...You "lose" because you obviously don't understand the basics of the game

This isn't a traditional MMO and more powerful ships will not be balanced vs the cheap starter vessels.

 

[Alienami]

I'm just going to bow out of this, people are missing what I am saying and its getting off-topic from my point of bigger ships seem to be taking a broken system of shield banks and running wild with it, primarily benefiting dramatically over smaller ships in combat using them, on top of their already insanely impressive bonuses like better weapons, et cetera... regardless of this being an MMO, player skill, or what have you.


I suggest switching back to the following:

Are shield batteries fine as is?

If not fine, are they in need of being restricted to one per ship and/or change them to a recharge over time mechanic based on System power, keep them as a set amount of uses as they are now, or other effect such as increasing the Systems power bar's max capacity as I suggested?


Pretty good discussion though, regardless.. *refreshes page* Or not, that escalated quickly. lol

Peace.

P.S. @Nerdwing, good post, thank you, I agree.
Player choices need to matter. If they don't, than you grind to end-game, best ship, just to PVP, suck because you only PVE'd there.... then go stomp other newbies.. until you're bored with the game and everyone starts to tire of everything and just all slowly quit game because its just gotten dull, predictable, et cetera... or so one possible outcome might be, if I happen to be right... but who knows?
But, regardless, I always burn out and quit games that lack balance and player choices, because "what is the point?" Where is the challenge other than surviving the grind boredom before you can finally "have fun?"

 

[Dabba]

You lose because you don't believe balance is important.

Edit: You being so butt-hurt make me smile. Please, grow up. One semi profane word does not make my argument invalid.

Adults know how to deal with a "cuss word".

fwiw I agree with the 1 shield cell bank per ship suggestion, but the lady is quite right, your posting style comes off as that of a petulant child and you undermine your own arguments regardless of how valid they may or may not be at their base.

 

[Radamanthe]

I propose no shield cell at all.

 

[SuBSynk]

Y One semi profane word does not make my argument invalid.

Adults know how to deal with a "cuss word".

You break the forum rules by purposefully avoiding the language filter, this is a family friendly forum and the mods will deal with you.

For your info i'm not offended by your language but you do lower the tone with such wording, just try and relax a little and at least learn to understand the basics of the game before calling others names and spouting drivel.

 

[anikaiful]

Without a degree of balance, there will be an optimum fit for a ship for any circumstance. A best general purpose "best in slot" configuration, ala MMO's. By balancing the pro's and cons of various weapons and subsystems, a player can in turn be made to prioritize their ship towards the specific task they're engaging in in a way much like balancing your fits currently allows, but on a potentially finer degree.

Balance doesnt necessarily only refer to PVP.

Now, you do get the point, whereas people dissing me don't.

 

[ChaseBears]

the shield cell paradigm is really bad for the game, since there's barely any reason to advance past the cobra. I don't think heat will work as a balance mechanism, simply because heat's basically a nonissue with a high grade power generator. Anything below 150% heat doesn't even seem to matter. At most it would restrict you from spamming shield cells in quick succession; it would probably make little difference to pvp if both parties are dodging.

currently: for every assassination, fight toughest ship in the game - Elite Anaconda. Spam shield cells, win at mild ammo cost.

what should be: fight a variety of ships, only rarely anacondas, and only rarely elites. No shield cells or heavily nerfed shield cells so the fights are tough and there's an incentive to use bigger ships. If you do end up fighting something like an elite anaconda the reward should be much larger.

while even the best of pilots in the toughest of ships will be in serious trouble if more than one competent Viper and/or Cobra decides to have a go at them...and most would eventually have to retreat from even one skilled pilot in a dramatically more agile or faster ship.

this just isn't true. a big ship with shield cells can soak virtually unlimited firepower. i wager that even a capital ship would take ages to down the shields of a cell'd up python, anaconda, or similarly powerful ship...though i've only ever watched them shooting at NPCs.

 

[SuBSynk]

this just isn't true. a big ship with shield cells can soak virtually unlimited firepower. i wager that even a capital ship would take ages to down the shields of a cell'd up python, anaconda, or similarly powerful ship...though i've only ever watched them shooting at NPCs.

Sorry but this is not correct a large hard point rail gun will 1 shot even Class 6/A shields.

 

[anikaiful]

the shield cell paradigm is really bad for the game, since there's barely any reason to advance past the cobra.

For some jobs, Cobra is simply the best. WTH is with people... You have the best tool for your job, be glad we don't cry NERF on that.

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Sorry but this is not correct a large hard point rail gun will 1 shot even Class 6/A shields.

Aye, Rail gun - if it hits. A dodgy one can avoid that tho, just like they can dodge cannons and anything slower than laz0rs.

 

[Remiel]

Are you willing to put this statement to the test?

I do every time I take one out. Feel free to test it for yourself.

 

[SuBSynk]

Yea i agree that you need a decent player to use the rail guns effectively, though skills should definitely count when it comes to instantly removing the shields of a ship

 

[Remiel]

Sorry but this is not correct a large hard point rail gun will 1 shot even Class 6/A shields.

Well, this thread's going around in circles now.

 

[anikaiful]

Well, this thread's going around in circles now.

Blame the OP.

 

[Morbad]

I propose no shield cell at all.

I didn't like them at all when they were introduced, but in their current incarnation, I'm pretty indifferent to them.

I don't think Frontier wants to remove them, and I gave up pushing for such a solution long ago, and simply seek to make them less relevant however I can.

the shield cell paradigm is really bad for the game, since there's barely any reason to advance past the cobra.

Unless you are hauling cargo, or participating in mixed fleet action, this is the case irrespective of SCBs.

currently: for every assassination, fight toughest ship in the game - Elite Anaconda. Spam shield cells, win at mild ammo cost.

I don't use ammo based weapons or SCBs to assassinate Elite Anaconda, it's just unnecessary.

Indeed, I rarely spend money on anything except the unavoidable wear and tear.

what should be: fight a variety of ships, only rarely anacondas, and only rarely elites. No shield cells or heavily nerfed shield cells so the fights are tough and there's an incentive to use bigger ships. If you do end up fighting something like an elite anaconda the reward should be much larger.

I have little incentive to use bigger ships even against these foes, and had even less incentive before SCBs existed. It's never been particularly economical to use anything bigger than a Cobra because you can't encounter and kill these targets fast enough to make up for the higher operating cost.

this just isn't true. a big ship with shield cells can soak virtually unlimited firepower. i wager that even a capital ship would take ages to down the shields of a cell'd up python, anaconda, or similarly powerful ship...though i've only ever watched them shooting at NPCs.

Ive seen plenty of NPC Python's and Anaconda pop SCBs, sometimes several of them...and while it certainly increases the time it takes to kill them, it hardly makes them invincible.

Players in these larger ships may indeed take prohibitively long to put down with a single smaller (than an Asp) ship if they take absurd amounts of SCBs, but they are likely to just leave when they come to the conclusion that they aren't going to shoot down their attacker, rather than burning SCBs for no benefit, or waiting for player reinforcements to show up (there is a limit to the amount of simultaneous railgun or beam laser fire even an Anaconda can take before it's shield fail, even with all the SCBs in the world).

The capital ships in their current incarnation are sitting ducks for nearly any ship in the game, since you can just fly inside/along their surfaces and pick off turrets and heat exchangers one by one, while using the bulk of the ship itself to guard against the fire of it's escorts.

 

[Remiel]

Blame the OP.

THANKS OBAMA!

 

[Johnny Spaceboots]

Blame the OP.

Pardon? I don't believe I'm responsible for any sort of circular discussion.
That said, while a large hard point rail gun may one shot shields, I personally have not come across them, and many ships can't mount them in the first place. I don't think that all other weapons of varying sizes and types should become obsolete just because shield cells are so extreme in their abuse and power.

 

[Droolguy]

Pardon? I don't believe I'm responsible for any sort of circular discussion.
That said, while a large hard point rail gun may one shot shields, I personally have not come across them, and many ships can't mount them in the first place. I don't think that all other weapons of varying sizes and types should become obsolete just because shield cells are so extreme in their abuse and power.

It's not going to matter what you say.

People who are currently abusing the mechanic will cry and deny it as loudly as they can to keep what is to any reasonable person, a broken system, broken. That way they can continue to exploit it.

If the debate starts to go sideways on them then they will resort to old fashioned ad hominem attacks to try and get the thread closed.

Welcome to the new generation of gaming where if your not lying your ass off or cheating your way to the top, your not trying hard enough.

They've already started making the baseless "It's just pilot skill differences" arguments that are worthless for balancing a game.

"Pilot Skill" isn't a tangible balancing factor, its an unknown variable, and due to being wildly differing and unknowable cannot be used to ANY degree in balancing a game.

Numbers and metrics are the only reliable way to achieve any kind of balanced play and currently they show that there's a huge gap.

 

[Remiel]

...and many ships can't mount them in the first place.

Two words: powerplant upgrades.