Still no VR improvements, still unplayable

[Phier]

I've had my dk2 for all of a weekend and I'm bummed I gotta go to work in 10 minutes, I'd rather be playing.

So far my dk2 experience in elite hasn't been perfect but it HAS been perfectly playable. I wish I could change the physical ipd on my dk2 slightly (there are diy guides out there but I don't want to take it apart), I wish ED would have more customizable colors (not nearly as badly as red green colorblind guys do), and I wish the resolution was better. Thats all overshadowed by the experience over all.

So you don't like it, we get it, but thats just like your opinion man

 

[RobinsonUK]

I hate to be a downer but this game is impossible to play with a HMD.

- Impossible to read UI
- Impossible to see what you're flying towards
- Any sort of lag means a frozen view, which is sudden and vomit-inducing
- Mouse doesn't line up with UI in a number of contexts
- Loading warns you to use extended mode, which is nonsense and totally broken. Only Direct mode works and it's claimed this is a lesser experience.

Are there any improvements planned? I bought this game after how much everyone talked about how great it was in the rift, but so far I'm unimpressed. I'd like to do more than look around the hanger and then fumble around in space. Can't trade if you can't read the screens. Can't fight blurry pixels. I've made suggestions that would immediately improve these issues and make it playable, but I've been completely ignored. I see from a number of other posts that customer support for this game doesn't exist. It's not... looking good. Where are the developers?

- If you change the UI colour to green, which you can do in the graphics settings file, the text is ten times more readable (search forums for how to do it)
- Not sure what you mean about not being able to see what you're flying towards. Depends how far away and how big it is?!
- I rarely get lag as such, but sometimes it happens, especially when choosing system view in the galaxy map. Ah well.
- Try not to use the mouse in VR. It's really not designed for it at the moment.
- Extended mode works for me, Direct Mode does not. You need to configure your graphics card properly to use extended mode of course.

Note that the Rift itself is experimental as is game support for it. It works OK for me with various tweaks here and there to graphics settings.

 

[Lestenio]

I've had my dk2 for all of a weekend and I'm bummed I gotta go to work in 10 minutes, I'd rather be playing.

So far my dk2 experience in elite hasn't been perfect but it HAS been perfectly playable. I wish I could change the physical ipd on my dk2 slightly (there are diy guides out there but I don't want to take it apart), I wish ED would have more customizable colors (not nearly as badly as red green colorblind guys do), and I wish the resolution was better. Thats all overshadowed by the experience over all.

So you don't like it, we get it, but thats just like your opinion man

have you tried the IPD wizard in the rift software ? it saves having to measure your eyes yourself.

 

[NoiseCrime]

Anyway, I eliminated any potential mis-configurations and perceptual differences - nobody has claimed that their menu looks any different to mine.

Not been able to play E over xmas, but pretty sure my main menu is no where near as bad as your mock up you posted. For starters the resolution seems far lower than I remember, the screen door is also far worse than I get. Granted its harder to read the menu being dumped to the far left, but its not as bad as your mock up implies, at least not for me. I guess it might look somewhat similar if I was looking at it by moving ones eyes instead of moving ones head to focus on the menu, but that is an on-going issue with the Rift due to lack of resolution at the edge/peripheral of the screen. The bigger issue is the amount of chromatic aberration you've got on there, don't remember it ever being as extreme as you've shown, except when Oculus released a faulty sdk several versions ago.

There are three possibilities

1. You've yet to set up the Rift correctly with E.
2. You are sadly one of the few unfortunate people for whom the DK2 simply wont work for some reason and quite possibly might have issues with cv1 too.
3. Your expectations are way over-board since most people find the DK2 more than sufficient for E.

 

[Phier]

have you tried the IPD wizard in the rift software ? it saves having to measure your eyes yourself.

I did AND I did it myself, the numbers were pretty much the same. The issue is I'm more blurry out my right eye. If I move the goggles in a bit it clears up, its definitely a lens thing. I've tried to narrow my IPD setting and that didn't help nor did making it bigger.

 

[Digs]

/snip/

One thing I've been saying over and over for the past three months is that nobody is taking VR seriously and they're going to get blown out of the water by developers like me who took the time to include VR as a worthwhile user experience. It's a bit like Rovio and mobile gaming - it didn't exactly come out of the blue but nobody took it seriously. Now Angry Birds is the definitive mobile gaming rags to riches story. It's just a shame that we couldn't all get VR on its feet together.
/snip

Try not to get your ego jammed in the door on the way out

 

[STABB666]

...One thing I've been saying over and over for the past three months is that nobody is taking VR seriously and they're going to get blown out of the water by developers like me who took the time to include VR as a worthwhile user experience. It's a bit like Rovio and mobile gaming - it didn't exactly come out of the blue but nobody took it seriously. Now Angry Birds is the definitive mobile gaming rags to riches story. It's just a shame that we couldn't all get VR on its feet together.

The Oculus developer forum seems pretty serious. More than half of my ideas are already well under production by someone else. But I have to point out that Rovio were taken seriously and were handed a big wad of cash to develop mobile games off the back of their work with Nokia. Angry Birds wasn't even one their first 30 or so games, so 'rags to riches' is hardly an accurate representation.

 

[Maaz]

Has this thread got this far without the OP listing his system specs to back up his complaint or did I miss something?

When complaining about the VR experience, should you not start by specifically listing what you're running it on?

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I can't disagree more...... 100 hrs or more in rift vr prove to me its not true. Asking for a refund due to your idea that its support for an unrelease product is broken esp when the majority believe otherwise seems a little unrealistic imo

Exactly. He's a developer but was unable to make the the DK2 work with ED? LOL! I managed to get it working properly, no problem at all. Someone who was unable to optimise the experience to its fullest isn't really going to have their comments very well received.

I suggest the OP tries to get someone who knows what they're doing to do an on site visit. ATM, he's not on the same page and therefore shouldn't be passing judgement.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I can't disagree more...... 100 hrs or more in rift vr prove to me its not true. Asking for a refund due to your idea that its support for an unrelease product is broken esp when the majority believe otherwise seems a little unrealistic imo

Why exactly would you expect unpaid volunteer fans who have stepped up to perform community Moderation activities to have any influence at all on the game development?

If you want to complain, at least get your facts and assumptions correct first.

There is a need for a moderator with a high level of VR experience. This thread should have been locked with a polite notice to the OP saying something like: 'You clearly haven't setup the Rift correctly with ED. So until you have, kindly stick to asking questions rather then annoying other forum members with ill-conceived judgements.'

This forum need a better signal to noise ratio.

 

[Wade_Watts]

Regarding the readability I found for myself that changing the HUD Color to "Matrix Green" improves the readability to an extent where it is comfortable to read.

Use the following color code :

<MatrixRed> 0.31, 0.75, 0.1 </MatrixRed>

<MatrixGreen> 0.5, 0.5, 1 </MatrixGreen>

<MatrixBlue> 0, 0, 1 </MatrixBlue>


The above goes into the file GraphicsConfiguration.xml, which can be found inside EDLaunch/Products/FORC-FDEV-* where you installed the game, or inside your home directory under the possibly hidden directory AppData/Local/Frontier_Developments/Products/FORC-FDEV-*.

Replace the corresponding three lines (only) at this spot in the file:

<GUIColour>
<Default>
<LocalisationName>Standard</LocalisationName>
<MatrixRed> 0.31, 0.75, 0.1 </MatrixRed>
<MatrixGreen> 0.5, 0.5, 1 </MatrixGreen>
<MatrixBlue> 0, 0, 1 </MatrixBlue>
</Default>

Have fun!

P.S. You can easily "configure" your own colors here http://arkku.com/elite/hud_editor/ - Still, i´d recommend the Matrix colors for optimal readibility

 

[Rambowjo]

It would seem that the OP has failed to realize, that in the UK they are currently celebrating a Christian tradition called "Christmas", which means the developers are not in the offices to do work, except for a few maintenance guys.

 

[msm903]

I just noticed that when using the Oculus rift or SBS that I only receive Stereoscopic 3D for the Cockpit items, but almost anything outside of the cockpit is not rendered in stereoscopic 3D. I have tested this mainly in the Dock training mission. Can anyone utilizing Oculus rift verify whether this is true on their system or not? If possible can be be provided with a simple screenshot when using VR so I can compare to mine? Another good place to test is by getting close to the asteroids within the target practice training mission.

 

[Phier]

I just noticed that when using the Oculus rift or SBS that I only receive Stereoscopic 3D for the Cockpit items, but almost anything outside of the cockpit is not rendered in stereoscopic 3D. I have tested this mainly in the Dock training mission. Can anyone utilizing Oculus rift verify whether this is true on their system or not? If possible can be be provided with a simple screenshot when using VR so I can compare to mine? Another good place to test is by getting close to the asteroids within the target practice training mission.

I can't take a screenshot for you, but I don't know how thats even possible to have that sort of issue.

 

[msm903]

I can't take a screenshot for you, but I don't know how thats even possible to have that sort of issue.

I don't think its an Issue. I think its just how they implemented it. I got some screenshots from Oculus rift forum and there is no stereoscopic depth beyond the cockpit. That would explain how they maintain the framerate with the rift or SBS

 

[Rambowjo]

I don't think its an Issue. I think its just how they implemented it. I got some screenshots from Oculus rift forum and there is no stereoscopic depth beyond the cockpit. That would explain how they maintain the framerate with the rift or SBS

Nah. Most objects you see outside the ship are hundreds of meters away. At that point, the miniscule distance between your eyes no longer make a difference. That said, your IPD might not be configured correctly, as Elite has a tendency to not grab the IPD values properly. Have a look in \AppData\Local\Frontier Developments\Elite Dangerous\Options\Graphics\Settings.xml, the line "<IPDAmount>0.064953</IPDAmount>" indicates the IPD the game is running at in meters.

 

[msm903]

Nah. Most objects you see outside the ship are hundreds of meters away. At that point, the miniscule distance between your eyes no longer make a difference. That said, your IPD might not be configured correctly, as Elite has a tendency to not grab the IPD values properly. Have a look in \AppData\Local\Frontier Developments\Elite Dangerous\Options\Graphics\Settings.xml, the line "<IPDAmount>0.064953</IPDAmount>" indicates the IPD the game is running at in meters.

Actually I've taken the spaceship and got right up to an asteroid, no stereodepth and I've also got right up to the little tower in a space station when docking still no stereoscopic depth. wasn't referring to the objects that are far away, I would expect that and in fact stereoscopic rendering would work that out on its own.

 

[Rambowjo]

Actually I've taken the spaceship and got right up to an asteroid, no stereodepth and I've also got right up to the little tower in a space station when docking still no stereoscopic depth. wasn't referring to the objects that are far away, I would expect that and in fact stereoscopic rendering would work that out on its own.

I went and had a look in a station, there's definitely stereo depth even outside the ship. I tried it on one of the big lights by the landing pads in station.

Keep in mind that you have to get really close to see stereoscopic depth. I had to fly close with the top of my canopy.

http://i.imgur.com/Kb2rzKV.jpg

 

[Antidamage]

Not been able to play E over xmas, but pretty sure my main menu is no where near as bad as your mock up you posted. For starters the resolution seems far lower than I remember, the screen door is also far worse than I get. Granted its harder to read the menu being dumped to the far left, but its not as bad as your mock up implies, at least not for me. I guess it might look somewhat similar if I was looking at it by moving ones eyes instead of moving ones head to focus on the menu, but that is an on-going issue with the Rift due to lack of resolution at the edge/peripheral of the screen. The bigger issue is the amount of chromatic aberration you've got on there, don't remember it ever being as extreme as you've shown, except when Oculus released a faulty sdk several versions ago.

There are three possibilities

1. You've yet to set up the Rift correctly with E.
2. You are sadly one of the few unfortunate people for whom the DK2 simply wont work for some reason and quite possibly might have issues with cv1 too.
3. Your expectations are way over-board since most people find the DK2 more than sufficient for E.

That's an actual screenshot with dim black lines I added to simulate the pixel grid. The chromatic aberration is because it's a screenshot and hasn't had to pass through the lens. Resolution wise it's exactly what I see in the game. I can lean closer to see the menu but that's unwieldy and irritating. The menu takes up about 5% of the screen, surely it could be bigger? The in-game UI is worse but turning your head to see a larger virtual screen is better than leaning in.

I doubt my perception of the rift is causing it to drop in resolution. I suspect what is actually happening is that most people are so enamoured by VR that they're happy to look past a major hitch in the experience.

The rift is set up correctly. This is the one game out of many that looks this bad and it's singularly because the UI hasn't been adapted to run with a low res display. It's that simple. If there's no chance of it getting fixed (which looks like the case) then there's no point in re-litigating it.

 

[Antidamage]

Why exactly would you expect unpaid volunteer fans who have stepped up to perform community Moderation activities to have any influence at all on the game development?

If you want to complain, at least get your facts and assumptions correct first.

So Frontier don't pay their staff? To be fair they're not exactly coming into work and managing the relationship between the community and the developers like they should be. Community moderation might be a hard job but they have to do better than this. Just look at this...

Try not to get your ego jammed in the door on the way out

This community is pretty toxic. Most replies to this thread are along the lines of "waaa it's fine get lost". You don't like complaining? Well guess what?

Focus groups eliminate people who rate anything as 10/10. They're the people who will give you a great result for whatever reason no matter what, and they're also not indicative of the wider consumer reaction. Instead they look at the responses that rate something between 7 to 9, the people who would like a game but have issues with it that need to be fixed.

This entire forum is made of up of people who rate this game as a 10. I don't expect you guys to want to improve or change the game in any way. But the least you could do is not make it painful for others to make their complaints heard.

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Actually I've taken the spaceship and got right up to an asteroid, no stereodepth and I've also got right up to the little tower in a space station when docking still no stereoscopic depth. wasn't referring to the objects that are far away, I would expect that and in fact stereoscopic rendering would work that out on its own.

Depth perception isn't 100% based on what you're looking at. A lot of it comes from stereognosis, which is your brain remembering or imagining something has depth and how that depth would look. When you reach under the bed to find something you can't see, your perception of the topology you're touching is stereognosis. Past a certain distance the depth you're seeing and the depth your brain is adding in blend and the latter takes over. Binocular convergence distance is fairly short - only about 10m. That's why people say the hanger looks 3d and the asteroids don't. The simulation and the hardware just isn't good enough for distant 3d to be as convincing as it could be yet.