The Shield discussion thread

[GerminVermin]

All they do is take the real skill out of fighting, the game was a scary place before cell recharges.

If you can't kill a ship that is using shield cells, either you're not keeping the ship in front of you to keep fire on it enough (meaning you need practice at dogfight maneuvering) or you're not keeping your guns landing on target (meaning you need practice aiming).

In a matched fight, shield cells only mean an extra few seconds of life. They don't charge the shields very fast. They don't KEEP shields charged or make the target invulnerable. If it's taking you long enough to kill a target that they have a chance to fire a second shield cell, either you are seriously out matched or you need practice. Complaining that shield cells are broken when in fact they're weak and don't turn the tide of battle in an even match, just advertises that you need more practice.

 

[Marikc0]

Why?

Explain. Fight in PVP lasts no more than about 5 minutes, these cells allow for all these 5 minutes to save the shield. You say the same put cell and use. But! Firstly, some ships can not equip them properly is just not enough slots. Second, when using cells lost meaning power management. Third, if so the presence of cells shield really necessary in the game, then let they will give a negative bonus, the use of this advantage should affect the overall fit, increased power consumption, or a significant decrease in maneuverability, or some more options. At the same time their use is in most cases imbalanced.
I write this not just because of the fact that I can't kill, this balanced view of the analysis of several fights with opponents without cells and with cells.

What do you think about this? Interested in the opinion of PVP players.

Go away.

 

[Seboss]

I'd like to reiterate that the biggest issue with shield cells right now is that the AI just don't know how to deal with them. Two problems:
* The AI use its shield cells at the wrong time, i.e when its shield has already collapsed or is not yet restored
* It's unable to concentrate fire to overwhelm the shield of a player using shield cells

I've been fighting AI Elite Anacondas in assassination missions and Pythons in warzone and except in the odd moments of inattention, they almost never get my shields down. They were super scary before the shield cells, now they're just pushovers and I could cash in those 150,000cr+ assassination missions all day long.

I realize shield recharge can be overwhelmed in PvP with proper timing and enough firepower, even though I still think one module per ship is enough and that not using cells is just putting yourself at a severe disadvantage. However, at the moment it's just too easy to cheese the AI with them. Maybe the problem is not with the shield cells, but rather the inability of the AI to focus fire at the right time to overwhelm the shield recharge rate. In any case, I think this should be fixed. In the meantime, well you could just stop using cells but that requires way more self-discipline than what I could muster

 

[Majei]

Nobody's forcing you to use them. If you don't like them, don't use them. If your target is using them and it's actually extending the fight that much longer, then you aren't as good a pilot as you think you are. You should be able to overpower a target using a shield cell.

Shield cell class doesn't dictate how much of the shield it boosts. Shield cell class dictates how many charges it holds, which does drive the price up for more charges. Some ships, like the Python, NEED two shield cells fired simultaneously to boost the shield back up. That's twice the cost, right there. Seems balanced, to me.

Don't confuse the word "used" with the word "abused."

Just because you don't like that it exists doesn't mean that the person using it is somehow abusing anything.

It's a valid game mechanic.

It's absolutely PREPOSTEROUS that people are actually objecting to the challenge presented when their target has shield cells. You can't be serious, can you? Why not just carry the argument further and say how dare any of my targets have shields that regenerate at all? How dare my target have a hull repair module! How dare my target not just blow up when I decide that he needs to die!

If your target is using a shield cell, you have to work harder to kill him. If you can't kill him, then THEY ARE REWARDED FOR BEING THE BETTER PILOT. That doesn't justify a claim that shield cells are abusing anything.

What you do not understand a word "imbalanced"? No one is advocated for the abolition of the cells. But making them more balanced for the best PVP necessary.

"If your target is using a shield cell, you have to work harder to kill him. If you can't kill him, then THEY ARE REWARDED FOR BEING THE BETTER PILOT."
Imagine that your opponent has a weapon that is not overheats and not being recharged. This can be achieved if you put a beam lasers and set power management so that all the energy will go to the weapons, but they will eventually turn off. But this you will be weak shields and a very small speed and maneuverability - it's a balance. So imagine that your opponent has a weapon that allows not using power management, not overheat and not be recharged. Do you think it's a normal game mechanics? As a result, it will ship with a very powerful weapon, powerful shields and high speed. Since he can easily shift the balance of power towards the shield and engines.

 

[Kypho]

Elite anaconda is so deadly, i destroyed it without shieldcell....
1 and only ONE shield cell for every ship.
Currently its unballanced, that a ship can use multiple.

 

[GerminVermin]

Guess I am not a good combat pilot because I use shield cells, reflective armor, chaff dispenser, and the largest possible shield generator.

Dying is depressing so I use whatever is available to keep a wide margin between life and death.

How dare you not make it easier for the person who wants to kill you! You are abusing this game!

 

[GerminVermin]

Imagine that your opponent has a weapon that is not overheats and not being recharged. This can be achieved if you put a beam lasers and set power management so that all the energy will go to the weapons, but they will eventually turn off. But this you will be weak shields and a very small speed and maneuverability - it's a balance. So imagine that your opponent has a weapon that allows not using power management, not overheat and not be recharged. Do you think it's a normal game mechanics?

Yes, I think it's a normal game mechanic. The shield cell doesn't last forever. It has a cooldown before you can use it again. It has limited uses before it needs to be reloaded and it costs credits to reload it.

My previous point stands. If that tiny buff is enough to prevent you from killing your target, then you're just not a very good pilot. I'm sorry that you don't want to work harder against a target that is better equipped than other targets of yours. That doesn't mean that this item needs to be nerfed or changed at all. It means YOU need to learn to be a better pilot.

As a result, it will ship with a very powerful weapon, powerful shields and high speed. Since he can easily shift the balance of power towards the shield and engines.

Yeah, and? The module takes up a slot on the ship which prevents any other device from being in its place. It has a limited number of charges that has to be refilled and you have to pay to do it. There's a cooldown period between uses that gives you PLENTY OF TIME to get your target's shields back down and do hull damage if not destroy the target.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the shield cells in their current iteration. They ARE balanced. They ARE supposed to be an item that gives you an advantage. There ARE drawbacks to using this advantage. It IS balanced.

Why aren't you crying about ECM or any other defensive module that exist in this game? I bet it's because you don't use missiles so you don't care that ECM is a way to avoid getting hit. The fact of the matter is that there ARE ways in this game to defend yourself properly, making you harder to kill. There are fair and balanced drawbacks to each and every one of them. They are balanced whether you like it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not.

 

[Seboss]

There ARE drawbacks to using this advantage.

Well, not really. I would agree if the module used an utility slot, forcing the user to choose between EMP, scanners, point defence, etc. But it uses an internal slot, which usually means you just have to sacrifice a bit of cargo, scoop, or a discovery scanner, pieces of equipment that don't have any impact on combat anyway. *And* larger ships can install multiple units without problem.

 

[Blackbird]

Trouble reloading shield cell bank

Anyone else come across this?

Got a 6 cell Shield Bank - when I try to fill it, I can reload 5 of the 6 cells but then they get removed one by one until there are none left. The money is taken each time.

You get that whining sound normally associated with loading constantly I am in a station. Logging and relogging has no effect.

I can't actually leave any station with charges in the shield cell banks.

Even tried different size banks with no effect.

Don't want to raise a ticket if it's something daft or common.

 

[Katkon]

I've noticed that if you have multiple banks you need to ensure all are switched on in the modules panel when reloading for the game to recognize the reload. Not sure that's your issue though.

 

[Blackbird]

Interesting - thanks for a tip. If I turn them off, I can reload them without them then automatically unloading.

A usable workaround. Appreciate the help.

Edit :

Well, flying along, full banks then turn them back on and all charges disappear while in flight .... horrible bug that ends my bounty hunting.

 

[Unpleasant]

Anyone else come across this?

Got a 6 cell Shield Bank - when I try to fill it, I can reload 5 of the 6 cells but then they get removed one by one until there are none left. The money is taken each time.

You get that whining sound normally associated with loading constantly I am in a station. Logging and relogging has no effect.

I can't actually leave any station with charges in the shield cell banks.

Even tried different size banks with no effect.

Don't want to raise a ticket if it's something daft or common.

Does it say something like 1 of 5 in your HUD? If it does, don't worry, there's still 5 there.

 

[FaolGlas]

Are they bound to a key that is also being used for something else? Or a key that is faulty, if on a joystick or gamepad and so are firing all the time?

 

[CMDR Agnès]

Thanks for the fast answers!! I will buy a Shield Generator A then

 

[Brokenstorm]

Don't take shields that are too small for your ships hull size. Optimum size should be always higher than your current mass.

current mass doesn't matter, the only thing that matter is the hull mass of the ship

 

[Brokenstorm]

Max shield value for different ships and how to measure them

I have seen some posts that try to determine shield strength by either getting shot a certain number of time or by running into things, but for me both those methods were too inaccurate and error prone.

So I found another more precise way to measure them by using how long it takes for them to come back up after they have been depleted/powered off.
As long as your power module is able to supply enough power you can get the exact strength of your shield.
A stopwatch will work fine, but if you want the exact value you should record the shield recharging and count the number of frames it takes.

Here are the value I calculated for the ships I own.

 

[ElleShaped]

There's another thread where some folks tested the actuall effects of the shield grades, and the conclusion was pretty clear:

As long as the optimal mass is greater than your hull mass, there is -no extra strength- from a shield og a higher class. If a class 2 shield has an optimal mass higher than your hull mass, a class 4 shield will be no better than a class 2 shield.

As for the grade, the higher (closer to A) the more damage it takes to shut it down, but the more power it takes to charge it to full; also, the number of pips yuou have in the SYS category, the less damage the shield takes per hit.

Therefore, all told, take the highest grade (EDCBA) that you can afford and the lowest class (12345) that has an optimal mass greater than your hull mass.

Note that we're talking HULL mass, not loaded mass; cargo does not affect shields.

 

[Brokenstorm]

Max shield value for different ships and how to measure them

Damn, I can't edit my post. anyway here are the values.

Ship Type Shield Strength
Sidewinder A2 52.4
Hauler A3 65.4
Adder A3 78.5
Eagle A3 78.4
Viper A3 137.4
Type 6 Transporter A5 117.7
Cobra Mk. III A4 95.3
ASP A6 180.7
Python A6 608.5

 

[Eumenis]

Damn, I can't edit my post. anyway here are the values.

Ship Type Shield Strength
Sidewinder A2 52.4
Hauler A3 65.4
Adder A3 78.5
Eagle A3 78.4
Viper A3 137.4
Type 6 Transporter A5 117.7
Cobra Mk. III A4 95.3
ASP A6 180.7
Python A6 608.5

Shouldn't you be using the same quality/class generators to give an absolute and not a relative measure?

 

[Brokenstorm]

There's another thread where some folks tested the actuall effects of the shield grades, and the conclusion was pretty clear:

As long as the optimal mass is greater than your hull mass, there is -no extra strength- from a shield og a higher class. If a class 2 shield has an optimal mass higher than your hull mass, a class 4 shield will be no better than a class 2 shield.

Can you point me to this thread because my result are quite different.
I get about 395 shield with a A5 and 608 with a A6 in my Python. My hull weight is lower than optimal for both.