The X-Rebirth Thread

[Mike Evans]

It's not the speed of movement and reaction that bothers me - I like that. It's the slipperiness. But I could get used to that very quickly and it would not put me off giving the game a good go. That cockpit, however, is a kill switch.

edit: unless you can toggle it off. Anyone know if that's possible?

Elite will have cockpits just like this one and you're not going to be able to toggle them off either. X Rebirth and Elite share a very similar vision when it comes to how you experience the game.

We're both saying that you play the game through the eyes of the pilot which means you do see the inside of your ship and you do look around and have camera motion that matches that of a head lolling about within the cockpit as you fly around.

When you want to walk around your ship you just stand up and then your walking around in first person, seamlessly. This creates an incredible level of immersion and will make even more sense if and when we get Oculus Rift or TrackIR support. Hell even just using the mouse to look around within your cockpit would be incredibly useful when flying your ship.

If X Rebirth is a no-go because of the choice of cockpit then why isn't Elite?

Secondly on the single ship only issue. I think some of you are missing the benefits such a premise can provide. The attention to detail they can apply to that ship is incredible let alone the amount of bespoke customisation options. You will get attached to it and you will be able to make it your own. Having multiple ships basically means you cut back on those aspects above. The single ship also means a good narrative can be more easily created around it which being a single player game makes a lot of sense.

I am of the opinion that if Elite Dangerous just gave you a Cobra MkIII to play with it would actually make for a compelling experience. The amount of customisation and polish we could add to it would be incredible.

 

[jabokai]

If X Rebirth is a no-go because of the choice of cockpit then why isn't Elite?

It may well be for some of us. I'll give it a try of course but, as mentioned in the Open Design Discussion thread, cockpit views feel horrible (and less immersive) to me.

 

[Cathy]

If X Rebirth is a no-go because of the choice of cockpit then why isn't Elite?

It might be I really hope not though. It may be that the 3D immersion is a different experience to the headache inducing issues I've had with cockpits in the past (before designers provided a toggle on/off for them). I certainly like the appearance of the ED one from the sneak peek a lot more than the X one here.

I have already decided to buy a bigger monitor before ED is released, because I know that helps.

I still don't fully understand the reasoning behind the notion that your monitor can not be the window if that is most immersive for you. When I get up from my pilot's chair and walk around I would expect the visual experience of pulling back, seeing the ship's infrastructure. When I'm in the chair being a pilot the unobstructed world beyond with data floating - what I would be concentrating on if I were really flying - seems most immersive.

But we'll see how it feels in Alpha

 

[Alien]

Elite will have cockpits just like this one and you're not going to be able to toggle them off either. X Rebirth and Elite share a very similar vision when it comes to how you experience the game.

We're both saying that you play the game through the eyes of the pilot which means you do see the inside of your ship and you do look around and have camera motion that matches that of a head lolling about within the cockpit as you fly around.

When you want to walk around your ship you just stand up and then your walking around in first person, seamlessly. This creates an incredible level of immersion and will make even more sense if and when we get Oculus Rift or TrackIR support. Hell even just using the mouse to look around within your cockpit would be incredibly useful when flying your ship.

All of that I agree with, and will like when it is in Elite Dangerous.

If X Rebirth is a no-go because of the choice of cockpit then why isn't Elite?

Because the cockpit in Rebirth simply looks horrible.

Secondly on the single ship only issue. I think some of you are missing the benefits such a premise can provide. The attention to detail they can apply to that ship is incredible let alone the amount of bespoke customisation options. You will get attached to it and you will be able to make it your own. Having multiple ships basically means you cut back on those aspects above. The single ship also means a good narrative can be more easily created around it which being a single player game makes a lot of sense.

I am of the opinion that if Elite Dangerous just gave you a Cobra MkIII to play with it would actually make for a compelling experience. The amount of customisation and polish we could add to it would be incredible.

I will start in a long range Cobra, and will name that ship and embrace "ownership" of that ship. But knowing I *could* own different ships if I wanted to is what I like, not that I am going to jump from ship to ship to ship all the time. Being restricted to one ship (after so many X games of owning different ships) is not adding to the gameplay at all. There will be different ships in X-Rebirth, but thanks to designers, you won't be able to fly any of them, and that is a very bad thing.

 

[Listeri69]

If you think the graphics on this look better than the graphics you posted on your sneek peek a while back you should seriously get your eyes tested, they look cartoony. You shouldn't underestimate yourself if you do think these are better than Elite Dangerous then I for one from what i've seen so far respectfully disagree

 

[dannysquid]

I like the cockpit. Particularly the very detailed shadows which place it in the exterior world. For me, cockpits are more immersive. I think it's important that you feel like you're IN a spaceship rather than that you ARE the spaceship.

 

[withnail]

I don't mind the cockpit. I do mind lots of struts and unneeded paraphernalia cluttering the view.

Everything in the cockpit should have a use and do something so that the important thing, the stuff going on outside your ship, is maximised.

A really wide strut/frame or something that is placed in the way for artistic merit is going to really annoy me.

 

[jamieboo]

Interesting discussion.

For me the cockpit was not so much of a massive turn off, but possibly only because other things were grabbing my attention in a more negative way.

Yes, I agree something didn't feel right about the movement. The effects of the physics of momentum and inertia could I suppose be offset by elaborate auxiliary thruster hijinks, but that for me rather undermines the illusion of the mass of the ship.

But the biggest dislike for me was the 'prettiness' of the environment.
Too many vapourous, shimmery colourful patches - just doesn't feel like space.
I know that the trend of recent space sims has been to festoon space with endless lurid nebulae - and I know it's already been discussed - but yeah, don't like it! Somehow makes me feel like I'm in an aquarium!

I like the shadows/self-shadows though.

 

[Mike Evans]

If you think the graphics on this look better than the graphics you posted on your sneek peek a while back you should seriously get your eyes tested, they look cartoony. You shouldn't underestimate yourself if you do think these are better than Elite Dangerous then I for one from what i've seen so far respectfully disagree

You don't play the game on a daily basis like I do. I can assure you that we're not at the same level they are yet. I'm certain we can achieve at least the same level of graphical quality upon release but for now we're not there. The "cartoony" effect you're referring too is obviously a stylisation they've decided to apply which is a good idea in my opinion. Games that utilize such stylisation typical look good for many years to come rather than those those that go for a realism looking dated almost immediately.

 

[Cathy]

Besides... holograms! Holograms for instrumentation data aren't just cool, they are an excellent solution to eyestrainy issues. And did I say they're cool?

 

[Mike Evans]

I don't mind the cockpit. I do mind lots of struts and unneeded paraphernalia cluttering the view.

Everything in the cockpit should have a use and do something so that the important thing, the stuff going on outside your ship, is maximised.

A really wide strut/frame or something that is placed in the way for artistic merit is going to really annoy me.

That really wide strut might be placed there from a structural integrity point of view from within the narrative and fiction of the game. Who's to say?

 

[Cathy]

I like the cockpit. Particularly the very detailed shadows which place it in the exterior world. For me, cockpits are more immersive. I think it's important that you feel like you're IN a spaceship rather than that you ARE the spaceship.

You've hit upon something key here - the immersion issue. What is immersive for one player is an immersion-breaker for another. For you, seeing the cockpit on your screen gives you the sense you're in one. For others, seeing the cockpit is a reminder of its artifice. How people perceive and interpret artifice is not consistent.

This is not a recent revelation. It goes way back earlier than video games - as does uncanny valley, although it was not always called that. There are elements of uncanny valley foregrounded in children's literature from the early last century (CS Lewis for example).

Ramifications of artifice can be very subjective, and tend to fall on a spectrum.

 

[Associat0r]

You don't play the game on a daily basis like I do. I can assure you that we're not at the same level they are yet. I'm certain we can achieve at least the same level of graphical quality upon release but for now we're not there. The "cartoony" effect you're referring too is obviously a stylisation they've decided to apply which is a good idea in my opinion. Games that utilize such stylisation typical look good for many years to come rather than those those that go for a realism looking dated almost immediately.

I agree with that, I also personally dislike the dirty rusty look of the ED ships, I prefer a cleaner future, but I do like the minimalistic shapes.

 

[Associat0r]

That really wide strut might be placed there from a structural integrity point of view from within the narrative and fiction of the game. Who's to say?

Why can't there be some ships with just a virtual cockpit like current drones that have cameras attached to them? that would make much more sense in the year 3300 and to me personally be much more immersive than an old fashioned dashboard.

 

[withnail]

If it was thin it would not be a problem and I am sure that my eyes would get become a accustomed to it. My point is that in some other games the cockpit struts and equipment take up more screen than the external view and that is silly.

I am a structural engineer by profession and IMO it would be perfectly feasible to design a cockpit without struts. If the opening for the window was designed as a bulkhead and had stiff members around it that were integral with the rest of the ship superstructure then there would be no problems with this.

I suppose you could say that they are required for atmospheric entry but the ship does have shields ...

 

[Mike Evans]

Why can't there be some ships with just a virtual cockpit like current drones that have cameras attached to them? that would make much more sense in the year 3300 and to me personally be much more immersive than an old fashioned dashboard.

Some ships will have just that.

 

[Associat0r]

Some ships will have just that.

Thanks that's really good to hear.

 

[copain]

You don't play the game on a daily basis like I do. I can assure you that we're not at the same level they are yet. I'm certain we can achieve at least the same level of graphical quality upon release but for now we're not there. The "cartoony" effect you're referring too is obviously a stylisation they've decided to apply which is a good idea in my opinion. Games that utilize such stylisation typical look good for many years to come rather than those those that go for a realism looking dated almost immediately.

if anything, ED's sneak peek wins hand down in colour palette selection.
the colour looks soft in the eye and its just beautiful.
the cockpit, orrery view, trading interface mock-up, they all put up a similiar feel.

the rebirth's afterburner/speed boost does looks like moving through butter.. should've had some vibration of sorts.
but i think it's easily fixed.

and then there's the auto-leveling flight, which seems like a dumbed down "casual/arcade-y" flight model.

but their "city" certainly looks interesting, with lanes and busy activities, looks like a real city in space. hopefully it's not just a backdrop.

 

[Associat0r]

If it was thin it would not be a problem and I am sure that my eyes would get become a accustomed to it. My point is that in some other games the cockpit struts and equipment take up more screen than the external view and that is silly.

I am a structural engineer by profession and IMO it would be perfectly feasible to design a cockpit without struts. If the opening for the window was designed as a bulkhead and had stiff members around it that were integral with the rest of the ship superstructure then there would be no problems with this.

I suppose you could say that they are required for atmospheric entry but the ship does have shields ...

I personally have no problem with cockpit struts in games that are about simulating current day technology, but what I then do prefer is that the game allows you to disable your avatar (stuff like arms and hands) and adjust the FOV so that you can match the view more closely to your seat position and display size.

 

[Cathy]

I agree with that, I also personally dislike the dirty rusty look of the ED ships, I prefer a cleaner future.

If you spend credits cleaning, maintaining and polishing maybe your ship will shine. The appearance of your ship may affect how npcs interact with you.

Some ships will have just that.

Thanks that's really good to hear.

Yay from me too