Yep, I went solo for trading rare goods

[Quineloe]

80% solo means 20% actually group up, and that is a huge number for any game that allows solo play

 

[Anton Cano]

I think there should be only open play

You and I would play that game, but nobody has made it yet. Before anyone mentions EVE, Elite is a very different game.

I think a good compromise is to make Solo and Open two different save profiles, that way you and I can play in Open all the time and the people who want to play alone or with close friends only have Solo/Group.

 

[Oheck]

I find it interesting how so many people want the old school experience of Elite. Yet, they balk at the possibility of loosing it all. I've played the original games for many years. While it was somewhat easy mode once you acquired one of the over powered ships. It was always a challenge getting there. Part of that challenge was you had 1 life only. No insurance. No possibility of keeping your rank past ship destruction. No hand holding. But, now we have a new Elite that makes the character persistent and so many people are worried about progress over simply enjoying the experience. How many commanders have you lost over the last 30 years? I've lost so many I've lost track. But, I sucked it up and started a new commander. What ever happened to enjoying the challenge?

I get it. The grinding can be boring. But let's be honest. It wasn't any less boring in the old Elites. It has always been a grind and a long one at that. This game is only a month old and people are scared of losing something so trivial to the overall experience as credits and ships. This is why I only play in OPEN. I have no fear. I like the feeling of adrenalin and a racing heart brought on by the experience. Maybe it's not for everyone. But, it perplexes me. Why are so many CMDRs worried about losing meaningless pixels. This game isn't about that and never has been. Who cares how those pixels were lost. The fun is in the journey.

Sir, your logic and reasoning have no place here. Git on outa here! Git!

 

[JeffersonFlight]

Solo and Open need to be two different saves. This would accomplish a few things.

1. This would create a need for Open traders to hire player escorts for trade runs, effectively creating a new role in the game for us to fill.

a. Players could be paid in cargo or by player-generated bulletin missions if Frontier decided it was worth adding.
b. Pirates would likely have to form pirating groups to successfully interdict and destroy a trader's escort.​

2. Pirates would have more options for targets as people who use Solo to trade and Open to do other stuff could no longer do so without being unable to play with others on that save.

a. Some players would opt to stick with Open, others with Solo, but hopefully the net result will be more traders in Open.
b. Players who want to play with others but not get pirated by other players could stay play in Group mode, which would use the same save as Solo.​

Making Open and Solo two different save profiles would hurt nobody other than people who switch back and forth to avoid potential risk in Open play. Solo and Open are both (and would remain) online-only because of the data stream that influences the dynamic universe. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

I don't think they need to be separate. It seems the majority of complaints are from pirates that attack people and the people they are attacking combat logging. I think there should be a system in place that punishes the people that do that. One for starters could be to detect if a player is being interdicted and if he is make it so he can't exit the game from the menu. Then if the game is terminated before the interdiction is complete or if he disconnects while taking damage add a re-login timer of a few hours or more depending on number of offences. Also the player should receive a bounty. I think another thing to be along with this is make pirating AI more rewarding. The game is huge, people wanting to pirate other players need to understand that. Running into people is rare at times.

 

[TOGSolid]

Solo and Open need to be two different saves. This would accomplish a few things.

1. This would create a need for Open traders to hire player escorts for trade runs, effectively creating a new role in the game for us to fill.

a. Players could be paid in cargo or by player-generated bulletin missions if Frontier decided it was worth adding.
b. Pirates would likely have to form pirating groups to successfully interdict and destroy a trader's escort.​

2. Pirates would have more options for targets as people who use Solo to trade and Open to do other stuff could no longer do so without being unable to play with others on that save.

a. Some players would opt to stick with Open, others with Solo, but hopefully the net result will be more traders in Open.
b. Players who want to play with others but not get pirated by other players could stay play in Group mode, which would use the same save as Solo.​

Making Open and Solo two different save profiles would hurt nobody other than people who switch back and forth to avoid potential risk in Open play. Solo and Open are both (and would remain) online-only because of the data stream that influences the dynamic universe. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

I was really surprised that Open and Solo weren't two separate saves to begin with. Being able to swap back and forth freely seems kinda silly because you can just hang out in solo to make a bunch of money risk free and then swap back to Open. If you want to play Open you should accept all the risks that come with playing Open. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to play Solo but if they start a Solo character it should be confined to Solo only play.

 

[DarkWalker]

I find it interesting how so many people want the old school experience of Elite. Yet, they balk at the possibility of loosing it all.

Huh, in the early games you can load an earlier save, so you only lose anything beyond what you earned in your very last outing if you want to. Playing without ever reloading was a valid play style, I guess, but so was using the save system to undo loses.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

Can anyone honestly say, hand on heart, that if no one had ever told them you could switch modes.... that they would have even noticed from playing the game?

 

[TOGSolid]

Huh, in the early games you can load an earlier save, so you only lose anything beyond what you earned in your very last outing if you want to. Playing without ever reloading was a valid play style, I guess, but so was using the save system to undo loses.

One of the funny bits of old game nostalgia is that players forget just how common save scumming was/is. Save early and save often was a mantra for many people for a reason. The people who iron manned their way through games were and still are a minority.

I don't think they need to be separate. It seems the majority of complaints are from pirates that attack people and the people they are attacking combat logging. I think there should be a system in place that punishes the people that do that. One for starters could be to detect if a player is being interdicted and if he is make it so he can't exit the game from the menu. Then if the game is terminated before the interdiction is complete or if he disconnects while taking damage add a re-login timer of a few hours or more depending on number of offences. Also the player should receive a bounty. I think another thing to be along with this is make pirating AI more rewarding. The game is huge, people wanting to pirate other players need to understand that. Running into people is rare at times.

Keeping someone from despawning instantly like in Eve would do the trick too. Having the interdiction immediately succeed and then have the target's ship persist for 15-30 seconds after logging off would keep people pretty honest.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

Keeping someone from despawning instantly like in Eve would do the trick too. Having the interdiction immediately succeed and then have the target's ship persist for 15-30 seconds after logging off would keep people pretty honest.

I thought it already did this? Certainly the timer part.

 

[Jet6R6]

I would say going after shield-less T6's with no weapons is the definition of "carebear".

Apologies, I was referring to an earlier post, meant to hit reply with quote.

This bit to be precise:

"Doesn't this demonstrate why Open and Solo should be entirely separate Careers"?

 

[Jukelo]

Unfortunately OP, nobody can blame you for going solo, not even us purely open players that like to prey on the weak. FD need to reward you for having the balls of playing in open, so that the real risks you take of losing an hour's work to a pirate against whom you have very little options, would be compensated by higher profit that would, in the end, leave you in the same situation, after losing your ship, as if you had been doing the same trade run in solo with no unlucky encounter.
Of course the problem there is that the solo diehards would whine loudly that their game style is being indirectly nerfed, and certainly we can't have them feel bad about themselves..

And as we can't expect FD to man up and make open play a trully profitable and interesting place for everybody, maybe we could start a discussion here on the forums between PVP pirates and traders, to figure out how exactly we could make this happen ourselves. What would be an acceptable loss ratio, that wouldn't completely deter traders from joining open, while leaving pirating a potentially profitable activity?

 

[Vasious]

We have a philosophical difference there my friend. There is no way at all that I would ever give in to a pirate. It's just not in me to do it. I would lose it all and quite the game before that would ever happen.

Quite a saddening statement really.
You would rather quit the game than drop cargo to escape, when you just had an experience where all the other gadgets installed on your ship just got you though by the skin of your teeth, why exclude another tool at your disposal, if you say you cannot face the risk of ship destruction.
You would rather quit and never play again for the sole reason it is another human player.

 

[shinai24]

I've just been attacked by a Pirate in cobra...(I travel with a Lakon type6). I tried 2 secondes to be in his back....of course, it's impossible.
The Pirate was a Gentleman...he just fired 2 or 3 times and said in a perfect english ...Give me 50% or die ! Love u pirate. <3
I stopped the Thrusters and gave him 25% "negociation part or rebel spirit".... he fired again "it's not 50% !" yeah yeah yeah.........love u pirate. <3
I left the rest...and he saved my life and said "Welcome in Anarchy System".....Good Deal sir !

I lost maybe 400.000cr......and so what ? 45min of gaming ? 1 hour ? That's was cool.......that was fun. that's part of the game !
We cannot have a Pirate Gaming without risk in the other hand. Eliminate the risk...you eliminate the Pirate Part of the game and eliminate the pirate, you eliminate the Bounty Hunting, and Eliminate the Bounty hunting, better go take a beer outside

Love u Pirate !
CMDR Lechatdlavoisine

 

[MegaJohnny]

Unfortunately OP, nobody can blame you for going solo, not even us purely open players that like to prey on the weak. FD need to reward you for having the balls of playing in open, so that the real risks you take of losing an hour's work to a pirate against whom you have very little options, would be compensated by higher profit that would, in the end, leave you in the same situation, after losing your ship, as if you had been doing the same trade run in solo with no unlucky encounter.
Of course the problem there is that the solo diehards would whine loudly that their game style is being indirectly nerfed, and certainly we can't have them feel bad about themselves..

And as we can't expect FD to man up and make open play a trully profitable and interesting place for everybody, maybe we could start a discussion here on the forums between PVP pirates and traders, to figure out how exactly we could make this happen ourselves. What would be an acceptable loss ratio, that wouldn't completely deter traders from joining open, while leaving pirating a potentially profitable activity?

The thing is, I don't play solo because it's easier, but because I want to play by myself.

There are plenty of singleplayer games where the NPCs are proactive, and even in open play you can almost nullify the chance of meeting another player due to the size of civilised space. If it's true the game isn't fun without players, that means the NPCs need looking at.

 

[schuesseled]

Doesn't this demonstrate why Open and Solo should be entirely separate Careers? I understand your situation and the option is there, so why not? It just has a ring of cheating to it.

It just demonstrates why there should be a separate open pve mode. Some of the players out there are jerks.

Very recently whilst in a nav point in the same system the op was talking about some loon decided he was a Policeman, and that I had to free the slaves I had just RESCUED from asphyxiating in deep space. And proceeded to attempt (unsuccessfully) to destroy me twice. Most of the players I meet in open are nice, this guy was scum. Evading him wasn't the problem, needing to evade him was.

Now pirates I have some modicum of respect for but if you guys can't play fair, don't expect anyone else to.

 

[idFREEK]

I was humbled the other night.

Lately I had come to the conclusion that my T6 was invulnerable to pirates. I had never even had a close call when interdicted. I even went so far as to post on this forum that I laughed at pirates. I laugh no more.

The other night I had my closest call yet to loosing almost everything in one shot. I had a full load of rare goods and was moving into the Orrere system in prep for the long haul leg when I was interdicted and pulled out of warp very quickly.

I didn't have a chance to get away as I kept the the circle in the blue for the entire event and still lost the interdiction. I did my usual and boosted away while readying chaff and ECM, shield cells, etc.. I reached minimum distance quickly while the pirate challenged me on chat to stop and drop cargo. He was a good pirate as he did not immediately attack and gave me a chance to answer. I declined and continued to boost away. He fired missiles and lasers, I fired off chaff and ECM. I used a shield cell and then attempted to jump to hyper --- nothing --- I was mass blocked. Tic, tic, tic goes the timer.

I made it to hyper with 60% hull after using 3 shield cells and various combination of full sys, eng, boost, and chaff.

This is where I made my big mistake. Instead of dropping back out of hyper and plotting a system jump I decided to attempt the final plunge into port. He got me again. This time I don't know why I got away. He had me at 35% hull with no shields and no cells left and I was still at the half way point on the hyper timer when he stopped firing. Maybe my last burst of chaff and ECM confused him? Maybe he took pity on me? Maybe he bot bored? I don't know.

I got away. I dropped back into normal space, plotted a jump to a nearby system, and jumped out of there fast.

OK, so here's the rube --- I quite out once I made it to port and went to solo mode to sell my goods. It was a no brainer. Why risk my neck again when the alternative was right there for the taking. I plan on using solo mode whenever I do rare goods trading in the future. There is no reason not to, the risk of pirates is to great and the cost to high. I'll still play open when I'm in my Cobra, but I just can't see taking the risk when trading. I'm way to poor to take a chance like that again.

Maybe when i'm rich i'll try it again. Once I can afford the risk.

What a chicken ! you got away, what ?

 

[Quineloe]

I've just been attacked by a Pirate in cobra...(I travel with a Lakon type6). I tried 2 secondes to be in his back....of course, it's impossible.
The Pirate was a Gentleman...he just fired 2 or 3 times and said in a perfect english ...Give me 50% or die ! Love u pirate. <3
I stopped the Thrusters and gave him 25% "negociation part or rebel spirit".... he fired again "it's not 50% !" yeah yeah yeah.........love u pirate. <3
I left the rest...and he saved my life and said "Welcome in Anarchy System".....Good Deal sir !

I lost maybe 400.000cr......and so what ? 45min of gaming ? 1 hour ? That's was cool.......that was fun. that's part of the game !
We cannot have a Pirate Gaming without risk in the other hand. Eliminate the risk...you eliminate the Pirate Part of the game and eliminate the pirate, you eliminate the Bounty Hunting, and Eliminate the Bounty hunting, better go take a beer outside

Love u Pirate !
CMDR Lechatdlavoisine

How nice of him to demand half of a 104t hold with his 40t capacity..

 

[Zeeman]

How many commanders have you lost over the last 30 years? I've lost so many I've lost track.....

I seem to remember losing my first 10 or so commanders at the first docking attempt when I payed Elite on the Atari ST. It made working for that docking computer so much more rewarding, though. I also remember my first steps into an Anarchy system. Boy did I get my butt whooped.

Then I discovered "Witch Space". Harmless and 100cr again... I did get to ELite in the end, and it was an awesome feeling!

I think one possible solution would be for Open Play to be a lot mor eliek the original Elite. When you re in a Democratic/Hi tech Federation/Imperial system, the cops pretty much show up at the first sign of an interdiction, it means it's not worth pirating (there will be one or two, but very, very rare), and those that want to avoid PvP can just find trade routes in "safe" systems.

However, for serious profits, you'll want to venture into more dangerous systems - because less traders means lower supply, higher demand, and higher prices. Locally produced goods, thus, would have high supply, and low demand, thus, lower prices.

Want to make 5000cr/T? Easy. But you'll need to trade between two Anarchy systems to do it - and th elocal human pirate population will be on your trail, because they can sell your goods for as much as you can, except they'll make 22kcr/T on that Palladium...

30000cr/T? You'll have less pirating issues (though it will still be a threat...), but you can do this by trading between slightly less dangerous communist (or whatever) systems. The idea is that systems as you go down the Government types from Democracy to Anarchy, less and less resources are spent on policing. So basically, pirating in a "safe" system will result in 100% feds showing up within 10-20 seconds. A slightly less safe system means that there is a 90% chance that they turn up to an interdiction, and it may take 10-30 seconds. And so on until, in a lawless system, there simply is no police presence, and you'll need to ensure you brought a stick with which to protect your carrots.

Prices, also, will be adjusted based on the risks, as there will be less supply and demand issues, as more traders are getting through.

Each player can work out for themselves what level of danger they are willing to deal with for the extra reward, Anarchy systems with no local law clearly being the highest margin - but if you get on here to cry about losing your unshielded T6 with 100T+ of Palladium to a human pirates, you'll pretty much be told to go have a cry, then mix some concrete into your rice bubbles and harden the heck up.

This way, everyone is in open, but those that want to avoid PvP (and I'm good with that, it's your call) can. High paying trade routes will be harder to find, though, and if you really want higher profits, you'll need to take risks...


Having said that, no reason why this can't be implemented as it stands into open in general. People wanting to try open can do so in safety, they may even make a few friends with fellow traders.

Other ideas would include the lawless anarchy systems paying full price for stolen goods - what do they care, right? Supply is low - just give me the darn fruit & vegies, and superconductors!

This would achieve a few things - it would encourage pirates to hunt more often in the more dangerous systems, thereby creating.. Well... More danger. Traders would then be encourage to buy Asps, Pythons and Anacondas for trade. The extra credits profits make it worth the purchase price, and they also become tougher targets. The easier and more difficult paths are, thus, built in, and everyone can play in open together, and play the way they want.

Z...

 

[CMDR Saunders]

In which case its just as well i'm not trying to tell you how to play. Otherwise - truly awesome comeback.

One useless comment deserves another.

 

[CMDR Saunders]

What's in it for the traders?



Actually Solo play is extremely detrimental for pirates, as I assume robbing AI traders is really bad business as they will rarely ship the expensive goods worth stealing.
I can fully understand that they want to rob players over AI, because a player will actually throw out a few tons of Gold without a fight while the AI always needs to be worked with guns.

This is just wrong. NPC pirating is far more profitable than player pirating. One, npc traders are everywhere. Two, npc traders are dumber than a bag of broken hammers. Three, npc traders will dump ALL their cargo when they are about to die.

Sorry, this is so wrong it hurts my brain. Player pirating isn't about the money, it's about the fun. It's not fun pulling over the same person again and again and having the exact same outcome.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

As someone who runs trades in Open, I definitely see it from that point of view, and that is what makes me want to split Open and Solo entirely. I am taking a much greater risk running trade routes in Open because players can (and have) interdict me and try to kill me or steal my cargo. I play a role necessary for those players to exist, who also play a role necessary for bounty hunters and escorts to exist. You playing in Solo and switching to Open when it suits you hurts the interdependence of player roles and actions.

If you do not wish to participate in non-consensual PvP, then please stay with Solo/Group and do not play on Open. This is part of the risk of playing on Open, and by playing in Solo and then switching to Open you are intentionally circumventing that risk, which cheapens the experience for us all.



That's fine, then stick to Solo. I'm not forcing you to play on Open. I just don't want people playing on Open who make their money playing Solo where there is no real risk to them.

I think you are being intentionally obtuse. I'll outline the problem as concisely as I can.

Some people are hopping between Solo and Open to avoid player interaction and do things that would be unsafe in Open, such as using a ship with large cargo capacity and eliminating defensive modules to increase cargo space. As you yourself have admitted, you do this to make safe trade runs, but play in Open other times.

This is unfair to people who play strictly in Open, especially a subset of those players who's aim in this open galaxy that Frontier has lovingly crafted is to pirate other players. This hurts pirates, potential escorts, potential bounty hunters, and the longevity of the Open game.

In order to eliminate the ability for players to dodge player interaction, I and other suggest that Open and Solo be made two separate save profiles, so that players who play in Open have to deal with other players 100% of the time, rather than when it is "convenient" for them.

Players who do not wish to interact with other players can simply play in Solo or Group mode. Like you said, there is a huge market for single-player games, so the people who legitimately want to play alone can do so. The people who want to always play with others can do so. The people that sometimes want to play alone and sometimes want to play with others can. The people who want to be wishy-washy and make money in Solo and then use that money in Open can't.

This a million times over. This is the argument. This is the problem. No forcing anyone to play what they don't want to play. You remove this clear abuse of the system for fast cash and no danger.

Well said.