the laughin devs

[Tas Devil]

Yes I am sure, and obviously it is you who doesn't have any idea. (sorry for the offensive tone, but I'm just giving it back right at you)

Braben & Bell were first refused by Thorn EMI Computer Software, as in EMI. They ruled the market at that time with River Rescue. Later changed name to Creative Sparks. And they were a gaming giant. Several things happened since then: the gaming industry got enormously bigger so the giant gaming companies of the early '80s can not be measured as such now - but they were at the time. And the Thorn EMI Computer Software / Creative Sparks went down, because they were not interested in a new idea of a game without 3 lives in 10 minutes and a final score. Acorn (small company at the time) was smarter.

Enough history for you? Learn some facts before you say "Are you sure you have any idea what you are talking about ?"

I'm curious. You seem to be getting a little hot under the collar there old boy.

Do you realise that if by your own admission the 'huge' 'big' and large' players in the gaming industry of 33 years ago are now tiny by today's industry standard (and lets be honest tiny doesn't do justice, they are utterly minuscule and irrelevant), the huge and big and large and rather old player base that embraced and love 1984 Elite is also tiny by today's gaming standard ?

Now in order to succeed in 2014 and while I appreciate that FD courted the money and support of the old player base during beta and gamma and early access, whom do you think they have to design the game for ultimately if they want it to succeed ?

Offline mode (or the ultimate lack of one albeit the numerous initial promises is a slight clue...

 

[J.M.Braehe]

Ah c'mon, even if it is the simpliest thing to win, a game always needs goals. Tell me a game which has none. I am a gamer since i was born I really can't remember a game, that has no goals. This isn't working. I mean, it's not a bad thing not being a game eh?

I'll give you several. Elite (1984), Frontier: Elite II, Frontier: First Encounters... thats 3 games with NO GOALS given to you to WIN. Another super popular one today EvE Online.... There's no point to playing other than amassing your own sense of wealth, becoming part of a Corp, and then doing whatever you want (Pirate/Trade/BH/Merc... or just run your corp to increase the size of your fleet).

E: D takes you out of the corp, and drops you into a friendless, and questless universe..... now find your own path. You do it IRL right? then why is it so hard to make your own goals in a GAME?

 

[Tas Devil]

then why is it so hard to make your own goals in a GAME?

Because more than 75% of the bare mechanisms required to implement and realise said goals are not in the finished product and unless your goal is that of being a space hermit you're pretty much incapable or realising any self defined goal that involves player interactions... or a lot of the things initially 'promised'...

 

[spe3d]

I'll give you several. Elite (1984), Frontier: Elite II, Frontier: First Encounters... thats 3 games with NO GOALS given to you to WIN. Another super popular one today EvE Online.... There's no point to playing other than amassing your own sense of wealth, becoming part of a Corp, and then doing whatever you want (Pirate/Trade/BH/Merc... or just run your corp to increase the size of your fleet).

E: D takes you out of the corp, and drops you into a friendless, and questless universe..... now find your own path. You do it IRL right? then why is it so hard to make your own goals in a GAME?

Did i say so? Man, this is getting boring. learn to read or stop posting .... and to say EVE has no goals to reach, a small lol for ya. i played it for 4 years, its FULL of goals, what i do is CHOOSE them. I guess you will not read this or understand this, because neither you did it to my previous postings, but

In EVE i choose to minor and produce things. I learned skills, bought ships, setup a corp to get assistant and we were great and successful in what we've done. The game supports your way of playing with different tools, ideas, challenges. After 2 month we were a perfect team, produce many things, getr profite, had fun.
In Elite i choose to minor and ......made some credits. In 2 month i simply do the SAME as before, there is NO improvement, NO growing, NO tools and NO challenges. I still fly into the same belt and do exactly the same as now, because this game has nothin to offer. You say "find your own path" there IS NO PATH.
EVE made many paths to choose, Elite says so, but did not.

 

[J.M.Braehe]

Because more than 75% of the bare mechanisms required to implement and realise said goals are not in the finished product and unless your goal is that of being a space hermit you're pretty much incapable or realising any self defined goal that involves player interactions... or a lot of the things initially 'promised'...

sounds to me like you're a little too stuck on what they "promised" and not enough appreciative of what came out of development. If you're waiting on features... "a watched pot never boils".

As for me, I've had no problems (along with MANY CMDRs that remain silent on the forums) finding anything and everything I've wanted to do in-game. I don't grind myself into boredom on any one thing. I have a whole LIST of goals that I wish to fulfill. The difference between my goals and yours, prioritization based on capability. Whether that be mechanically or fiscally. If I CANT do it yet for one reason or another, it goes down on my list. There's plenty of other things for me to do in the meantime.

Put the sour grapes away and stop grousing ppl up because you're finding less than "peak enjoyment" from an, by ALL MANNERS OF MEASURE, AMAZINGLY DEEP game. Your disillusionment is making me want a drink.

Off to Lave and Eranin to pick up my alcohols.

 

[Asrar]

tbo be fair, hes right in most of the things..
in reality : you rent a house to live in, you rent storage to put your useless stuff in, you buy a car to drive with (in ED its your ship), you pimp your car to feel better in it.
in ED you only buy your ship and you can pimp it in an unknown way of understanding.
my ship has 140 shields (is this with the delivered fitting ? because the written speeds never been reached with core fitting), but i can change the shield generator, so i started with e5 = 140
what the heck then has an a5, or is it like with the speed, a5= 140 and the rest is a gimped version.

so yes i want to rent a fix landing platform, i even pay good credits for it, i want to rent a storage where i can put my stolen stuff in, i want to have more meaningfull missions and no random popups only i can see in an online game.
i want to have missions in MY system, not that 90% of the missions lead me to another system.. i want to say here i earn money, here i build my base.. probably at somepoint this is a feautre, an expensive one but a nice feauture.

a lot of ppl playing a game to do so. so you wanna have more players, you should attract more players, give them what they want ;-)

 

[J.M.Braehe]

Did i say so? Man, this is getting boring. learn to read or stop posting .... and to say EVE has no goals to reach, a small lol for ya. i played it for 4 years, its FULL of goals, what i do is CHOOSE them. I guess you will not read this or understand this, because neither you did it to my previous postings, but

In EVE i choose to minor and produce things. I learned skills, bought ships, setup a corp to get assistant and we were great and successful in what we've done. The game supports your way of playing with different tools, ideas, challenges. After 2 month we were a perfect team, produce many things, getr profite, had fun.
In Elite i choose to minor and ......made some credits. In 2 month i simply do the SAME as before, there is NO improvement, NO growing, NO tools and NO challenges. I still fly into the same belt and do exactly the same as now, because this game has nothin to offer. You say "find your own path" there IS NO PATH.
EVE made many paths to choose, Elite says so, but did not.

I read... and I comprehended... what you are failing to see is that the goals are there in Elite, but unlike EvE, you actually have to find them on your own. THey arent advertised, and there is no one-way-guide to doing any of it.

Another point you fail to understand is that EvE was NOT ALWAYS in the state it is now... It took 10 YEARS of constant devving to get it there....

all I have left for you (sorry cliche)... You're playing the wrong game then. EvE had it right for you? go back to it.
Or do the smart thing and let the devs do their jobs since the game hasn't even been RELEASED FOR A MONTH.


Removing myself from this pointless discussion now. If you care to discuss it intelligently, please PM me. Otherwise, leave your urine-and-vinegar here.

 

[spe3d]

sounds to me like you're a little too stuck on what they "promised" and not enough appreciative of what came out of development. If you're waiting on features... "a watched pot never boils".

As for me, I've had no problems (along with MANY CMDRs that remain silent on the forums) finding anything and everything I've wanted to do in-game. I don't grind myself into boredom on any one thing. I have a whole LIST of goals that I wish to fulfill. The difference between my goals and yours, prioritization based on capability. Whether that be mechanically or fiscally. If I CANT do it yet for one reason or another, it goes down on my list. There's plenty of other things for me to do in the meantime.

Put the sour grapes away and stop grousing ppl up because you're finding less than "peak enjoyment" from an, by ALL MANNERS OF MEASURE, AMAZINGLY DEEP game. Your disillusionment is making me want a drink.

Off to Lave and Eranin to pick up my alcohols.

Nice egoistic way of thinkin'. "My goals are working, your problem if yours not" - somehow this does not match up with the idea of Elite. I mean, i never read somewhere, that the list of JMBraehe is the centre of the universe -.-

I read... and I comprehended... what you are failing to see is that the goals are there in Elite, but unlike EvE, you actually have to find them on your own. THey arent advertised, and there is no one-way-guide to doing any of it.

lol, not really. Man, I SEE MY GOALS, i choose some GOALS. I reached them.

One goal was to set up a mining ship and go mining. It is there, you can do it! So i choose it. But it's crappy! In 2 days you have the ship and the best equipment to do so. But mining is just an ugly and no-fun design! As you can read here, some players did not even took 2 hrs to stop because its that bad. THAT WAS A GOAL I CHOOSE. But is does not function!

I choose to explore, that was my NEXT GOAL I CHOOSE so i went out! But the whole mechanic and the reward is awful. So this goal doesn't function too to me. What do you want me to tell. That this goals are just garbage and i shall take the same goals then you, because these goals are awesome? How little is your world, that you still ignore the message???

 

[Asp Explorer]

that the list of JMBraehe is the centre of the universe

That was precisely his point - his list IS the goal at the centre of his universe, just as you get to choose exactly what your goals are.

It's as simple as that - there is nothing else to be said on the matter.

 

[Tas Devil]

I have a whole LIST of goals that I wish to fulfill...........by ALL MANNERS OF MEASURE, AMAZINGLY DEEP game.

Care to share your list of amazing goals ... seriously just to document your claims...

As for the second part of your quote, this game currently has very little depth... it's a huge ocean that's about 1 inch deep...

To suggest ED has depth and is an amazingly deep game... is ridiculous. Was the last game you played the 1984 version of Elite ? I would begin to understand your comment then...

 

[Nomadski]

I wouldn't mind achievements in the game; a page where you get a badge for killing an Anaconda, exploring 1000 systems, selling a non-rare cargo for one million, piloting an Imperial Clipper, etc. It would create the illusion that at least my game client cared about what I did in the galaxy.

I'd also like to be able to see my travel history in the galactic map, and the volume that I, personally, had explored.

In other words, I'd like to build a trophy room, if not a home.

Yeah a travel history would have been amazing, had it been in from the start. I suggested this last year but unfortunately wasn't implemented.

Would have been great, a year from now, to look at a special section of the galactic map and see a sprawling line going around the galaxy thru all the stars you had visited. Pretty pointless to implement now. Shame.

 

[spe3d]

That was precisely his point - his list IS the goal at the centre of his universe, just as you get to choose exactly what your goals are.

It's as simple as that - there is nothing else to be said on the matter.

Ok. Now just slow and in simple words.

I get into this game and i decide that my goal is to go mining, to become a good miner, earn credits, become even better and go out sell my ore or build some station or whatever i can do with this ore. While i started, i mentioned, that mining in this game is boring and bad designed,

In about 2 days you have the best equip to do and that means from there on, mining is absolutely the same. In 4 days, in 2 weeks, in 3 months. There is no improvement. Nothin to reach. Neither i can get a extra ordinary mining ship nor can i improve skills to do or group with players to be better in this. Just because, this game design does not allow it.
After that, i have to see, that when i have ore, there is nothin that i can do with it. I cannot build something, i cannot complete special mining quests, i cannot even put the ore into better ones, nothin. I only can sell it. And thats all i can reach in the mining business.

So that was my private first point of my centre of my universe and this goal is crappy, because the mechanics are crappy and the game design of this part of the game is poor.
There is NOTHIN wrong with me or the way i play. As you all say, i choose my goal, the game did not tell me to do, it was my free will to do and i did go there, i learned how to do on my own (i wrote a mining-guide about it) it's all the way you want it...but....IT MAKES NO FUN!

It's easy, what you write. Yea sure! Lets take my own way! Yea! Yea! But that does not work in Elite. Here you have to choose "the right way". What the right way is? Well, try&error baby! All i can say is, mining is not the right way. And guess what, i have another GOAL ON MY OWN! Yea!

It is, take the ASP in fly straight into the middle of the galaxy!

AWESOME!!!

But hey. Sorry, but, i read that someone before tried this and he gets stuck and stuck and stuck, because the systems are bugged. -.- Well ok, this goal does not function too ^^ I will find my next goal. Perhaps, someday i'll find a goal, that works in this game. For so long, go on and ignore and attack every "critic" some players tells about your beloved EliteDangerous.

At least it's funny. For 10 years now i play games, which are not plotted, where i have to take my own way (EVE, DayZ, Minecraft). This is the first game of this style, where the lack of tools, options and improvements does not give me the opportunity to do so and all what the community does is ignoring the facts and play the same tape with the same blabla "beauty of elite" blabla "you fail, you must find your own way"blabla on auto-repeat. Pretty lame ^^

 

[MadMarchHare]

I like how that last post has disappeared already, very gifted in the ways of irony that fellow.

 

[Zvanya]

I think the OP "gets it", He understands what Elite is all about. And he doesn't like it.

 

[Britannkic]

This game want to give the player the opportunity to feel free and to do what he wants, but there is a difference between "think, try and learn" and letting them completely alone. This does not give me the feeling, that devs want me to do something, this gives me the feeling, that devs themselves DONT want to do something.

I tried now for two days, to get some faction points. First day, there simply was no quests at station for me to choose. Second day, i powered my standing up! And then? I shall hunt some smugglers. But who is a smuggler? I beat up an Type-6 who was trashtalkin to me on the communicator. This MUST be a smuggler! But what happens? I get a bounty from the system, the security attacked me and? The quest doesnt react. Ahh, no smuggler So, i pay my own bounty and negate the credits i should get for this quest and finally? My standing falls down to the neutral as before! Hell yea, this is really a amazing thing. No explaining and if you try something out, you get an asskick. What a huge design! Send players somewhere, tell them to shoot some kind of AI but doesnt explain which one it is. And when they attack the wrong AI, give em fire. Send Anncondas to them! This must have been so much fun for the devs. i can hear them laughing right now ^^

Well, its like some days ago. I was in a planet ring, mining. I love mining. Well, i loved it in other space games. Here it is a mess. You get good credits, sure. But it's really WORK and it bothers you wherever it can. You must search for good ore, again and again, because this game doesnt allow you to scan astros. When you have one (party *dance*) with gold or something else, dont be too happy. 10 chunks and this huge astro is empty. You scratch the surface with your mining laser, but 10 splitters and its empty Then, you have to play a minigame to get these chunks and DONT YOU EVER mine off more then 5 chunks!! Metalchunks dissappear in this universe! Sounds stupid, but it does. Can you hear this evil laughter? It rumors again ^^

Then you take your little mining ship back to the station and sell the metal! Because? This game has NO STORAGE SYSTEM! Nearly EVERY GAME i know has a inventory and a chest, container, whatever, where players can put their things in. This is a game about the future and no sto..... man, now i can hear this laughin again...stop it!!!

Ahh, i forgot that story of my explorations! Let me tell

I traded. I had an ASP and started first trading to get some more credits (CREDITS thats what its all about!!!) for better fittings. I jumped around, used my 1.6mio scanner in every system between jump in and jump out. I sold the scans and yes! I made really credits with it. 3 hours trading = 130k just for those in-between-scans. And even as it where silent again, i hear the laughter over and over, while i clicked somewhere between 200 and 300 times on my left mouse button to sell all this system scans. SCAN *click* SELL *click* *wait* SCAN *click* SELL *click* *wait*SCAN *click* SELL *click* *wait*SCAN *click* SELL *click* *wait*SCAN *click* SELL *click* *wait* ....awesome......not....
Then i asked myself, when i get so much money just for that one *WWOOOMMPPP*, what will i get if i explore it all?
So i jumped back into one system with 24 objects. i scanned it all. It took me about an hour to do so. Belts, planets... and gues what...hahahaha is back! i took 14.000c for that one WOMMMP which was one click (5secs) and 6.oooc for the rest (1hour flytime). Silence.....where is the laughter? I guess devs are already killed by laughing attacks -.- What is the idea of this?

My friend bought himself a landing computer. 3 days ago he lost his ship, because his landing computer failed hard. Well, ok. This time i really rofled too

How can you buy a landing computer in a game, where everything is against the player? Where simply NOTHIN helps you?!

Remember this hyper-aggro-station-rules? you do not have permission? WE KILL YA! You land on the wrong pad? WE KILL YA! You did not fly out in certain minutes? WE KILL YA! What is the idea of this?
And if this should not be enough, the pad numbers are not painted on the pads Noooo, they are flickering light and sometimes, yea somtimes you cannot even see this light! So WE KILL YA!
Is there something that can be more stupid in the connection to this? -.-

All the things, that make you feel good, make you enjoy games are missing. You cannot build yourself a home, even if you try, there is no way to feel "this system, this station is my home" - no, this sell-all-mentality the game pulls over is allmighty.
You cannot advance, no levels, no character-data, no skills to improve. So you think, ok, then i improve my ship. Fittings, better ships...but there are a handful of very very expensive ships, but there is no use to feel improved. Quests will stay the same. Only the costs explodes. So - no advancement.
Ok, understood. So Elite wants me to play my own style. But what is it? Lets try out!
But every try depends 99% on your own imagination, because the games always says: "Oh, you've done something? Here are the credits!", there is no motivation but your own, no goals but your own.

A game needs goals, needs something, that players can reach out for. Thats the core of gaming! This here is not a game. its a nice demo, a really nice demo-thing. But its not a game. And when i look at all those stupid design-descisions, it's not only "not a game" and it's against players.

I made about 20mio credits. I have a nice ASP. This weekend i want to fly where no a player ever has been before. Yea! But even if i do, i know its just for my own imagination, because the game is not interested in me or what i am doin. It will just say "Oh, you've done something? Here are the credits!" when i come back someday...and i already feeling **d when i think about how many clicks i must do, when i sell all those scans,....just because the devs always want to laugh....

Some commanders just can't handle Elite

 

[Spiridon]

I'm curious. You seem to be getting a little hot under the collar there old boy.

Do you realise that if by your own admission the 'huge' 'big' and large' players in the gaming industry of 33 years ago are now tiny by today's industry standard (and lets be honest tiny doesn't do justice, they are utterly minuscule and irrelevant), the huge and big and large and rather old player base that embraced and love 1984 Elite is also tiny by today's gaming standard ?

Now in order to succeed in 2014 and while I appreciate that FD courted the money and support of the old player base during beta and gamma and early access, whom do you think they have to design the game for ultimately if they want it to succeed ?

Offline mode (or the ultimate lack of one albeit the numerous initial promises is a slight clue...

Yes, I tend to get annoyed when a person who lacks knowledge of something tells someone who's been there & done that "Are you sure you have any idea what you are talking about?" Yes I have, and you showed you haven't.

Have I ever said that the gaming market of 1982 had same/more money than today's? No, of course. But please, please, try to understand the logic of this simple sentence "..at that time, they were giants". Can you grasp that? OK, I'll try different approach: at a certain time in the past, a Roman legion was a formidable fighting force. Could crush tribe after tribe, and just 2-3 legions went to pacify entire regions. And a certain tribe managed to beat a Roman legion. Can you see that as an achievement in the historic context? Or would you say "naah, a Roman legion? So what? A simple infantry company with machine guns can wipe them out". Yes, but at that time...

So at that time Thorn EMI Computer Software was freakin EA of today. Now we got that cleared for you, can you comprehend the rest of my post?

 

[SosoDeSamurai]

Some commanders just can't handle Elite

You are so intelligent, thanks for you wonderfull post.

 

[Nomadski]

Yes, I tend to get annoyed when a person who lacks knowledge of something tells someone who's been there & done that "Are you sure you have any idea what you are talking about?" Yes I have, and you showed you haven't.

Have I ever said that the gaming market of 1982 had same/more money than today's? No, of course. But please, please, try to understand the logic of this simple sentence "..at that time, they were giants". Can you grasp that? OK, I'll try different approach: at a certain time in the past, a Roman legion was a formidable fighting force. Could crush tribe after tribe, and just 2-3 legions went to pacify entire regions. And a certain tribe managed to beat a Roman legion. Can you see that as an achievement in the historic context? Or would you say "naah, a Roman legion? So what? A simple infantry company with machine guns can wipe them out". Yes, but at that time...

So at that time Thorn EMI Computer Software was freakin EA of today. Now we got that cleared for you, can you comprehend the rest of my post?

Indeed.

Actually, a company that had its fingers in as many pies as Thorn EMI had would be considered pretty damn big, even today.

Thorn EMI nearly merged with British Aerospace. They were a FTSE 100 company based in Wardour Street, a majority shareholder of ITV, owned Radio Rentals (huge chain at the time), was one of the UKs largest defence companies builiding microchips, missile electronics and military equipment sensors, and who bought out a division of Philips 6 years later, and Virgin Records 8 years later.

The turnover of Thorn EMI in 84/85 was $4.16 Billion, $0.4 Billion less than Activision Blizzard in 2013...

The EMI part of the business on its own was one of the Big Four record lables in the world, right up until 2012!

When you consider American publishers were on their knees a year after the big crash in the industry, and it was a good year or so before the big N got its big success in the UK, a company like Thorn EMI were HUGE.

 

[vonvonbraun]

This made me laugh but is also kind of true

probably most humorous complain post ever

 

[Britannkic]

You are so intelligent, thanks for you wonderfull post.

You're too kind, no you are, I'm blushing now