Pirate Vs Experienced Trader -- Lots of Fun... but Sad too.

[Darian]

You are very romantic if you think it works out that way.
I played online rpg for over 20 years now and it would be the first one where it works out "as intended"

One of the reasons why i am firm against online Elite, the whole thing degrades down to the usual, the game is played as the people who want pvp want it to be played, the others have to smile and serve as cannon fodder.

And i rather delete my account than join into that.

The one time i did play in open (accident) I was ganked in an empty t7 three times inside sol systhem, so well,... no I am not convienced.

If you want piratery part of the game i play in think out ways (and have them implemented) that make it an fun game for the trader too, not only for the pirate.

 

[Tigga]

Oh wait, you don't even play open? Unless you're actually out there experiencing it it's very hard to put much weight on your opinion. Experience really helps here IMO.

If you do as I suggested: dump cargo and run, most people who interdict you will go after the cargo. Of course, paying attention to your surroundings will prevent you getting interdiced in the first place, and some ships are obvious killers not pirates (Eagles, for example).

 

[excalibus]

Honestly, mass locking needs to be more analogue. A Cobra is actually a higher hull mass than a Type-6. There should be some penalty on the FSD of the Type-6, even if it's only 2x.

This is what I was thinking whilst reading through the thread, that the mass lock could be a 2 way street, eg each ship (even a smaller) will delay a bigger ship engaging FSD if they can stay close enough to have their mass affect and slow down the spooling process... of course in the bigger ship it should not STOP the spooling up but it should impact on it to some extent, with the higher the mass of the 'smaller' ship having more effect on the spool up time, so if there are 2 ships of similar mass then it would almost negate (or take significantly longer) to spool up whilst the 2 ships are within close proximity and it should be distance set (and logarithmic in equation) so the further away from the other ship the faster the drive spools up and the closer, the more effect on slowing down the spooling.

so instead of the current 'mass' lock problem where you have to get the other ships around you almost off the radar, the further the distance the closer to normal spool speed you get and the closer the longer it takes to spool, would help reduce the effect flybys that wanna hover at around 2.5 - 3km and snipe at you whilst maintaining a mass lock, and would give the skillful pilot (of either side of the problem) either the ability to plug away at a target or the ability to run if they can get a 'break away'

 

[Zork]

I don't have a patented solution but I agree with your last paragraph for the most part. I mean, the risk for the pirate is not getting anything, having to pay the cost for ammo, some hull damage from interdicting, pay the bounty and... well, not much else really. The risk is very low and the profit is usually not that great since targets are not always abundant. In the same situation a T7 has a rebuy cost of maybe a million + maybe up to 3 million in cargo. The risk is substantial and it is pushing people to trade in solo. Blowing up the T7 carries a bounty of maybe 6k for the pirate which is not really balanced towards the loss of the trader.

Some balancing is really in order here since all parties are whining at the moment, and for good reasons Maybe there ought to be a better way of stealing stuff without killing the target = win/win. Maybe boosting the limpets in some way.

Wondering if the bounty on the pirate was a percentage of the loss (cost of ship + cargo) of his/her prey... maybe 50%... would increase bounty hunting?

 

[Darian]

I played one day in open by accident and that healed me of any notion of playing in open, three interdictions in one flight is plenty enough.

 

[Tigga]

I played one day in open by accident and that healed me of any notion of playing in open, three interdictions in one flight is plenty enough.

You still have very limited experience though. You have no idea if that was normal, or you just got unlucky. As such, your experience isn't one we can really draw many conclusions from.

 

[Morbad]

I played one day in open by accident and that healed me of any notion of playing in open, three interdictions in one flight is plenty enough.

I think it's silly to let one bad experience you had while flying a vessel that looks like an easy target through a densely populated system close off all the potential Open has, even for those who'd rather avoid a fight.

And how did it take three interdictions by players for you to realize you were in open?

 

[Stewart_]

I don't think you understood the post.

If anything, I'm asking for the hauler I-win button to be disabled.

What I read is this "Wawwwww... the trader got a way and its not fair!!! "

Stop crying.

Pirating doesn't need to be easier.

 

[Morbad]

You still have very limited experience though. You have no idea if that was normal, or you just got unlucky. As such, your experience isn't one we can really draw many conclusions from.

Yeah, I agree.

I play quite a bit, and since release the only time I have been interdicted while trading was when I deliberately got in my Cobra, loaded up on rares, and flew to your location to see if I could escape you.

Even if I count beta/gamma, I can count the number of times I've been interdicted by CMDRs while not looking for a fight on one hand.

 

[Skip Intro]

This guy was hauling and he knew the dangers of the universe and he equipped accordingly. Threw out chaff, point defense destroyed my missiles, any shots incoming nullified by shield cell. He was ready to rock. Even though he got away, it was pretty damn awesome. This is how traders should be traveling and be ready for combat.

Of course.... this awesomeness was cut short by the fact that he submitted to interdiction and warped immediately away (3 times), essentially nullifying any chance of success against him -- thus cheapening the experience overall. Completely impossible to actually pirate a t6 or above in the current state of the game (any hauler that takes advantage of submit, warp, laugh technique).

It's a bit of a game spoiler at the moment and makes piracy far less fun when any juicy target can do this at will.

Pick your targets, the guy knew what he was doing any you weren't going to win. Not every player with a hauler is like this, I think.

 

[Darian]

You still have very limited experience though. You have no idea if that was normal, or you just got unlucky. As such, your experience isn't one we can really draw many conclusions from.

Inside SOL crawling with police? c'mon, if one of the systhems that should be one of the densly monitored ones already has three pirates between the sun and the closest station I do not care for the rest of the universe.
Beside i am talking about my experience in 20 years of mmo, as soon pvp is not very strict regulated you will always have an great number of "pirates" or whatever who is in it for the trolling, not the game.
With the way it is balanced against the freighters in Elite i see the gankfest coming.

 

[Darian]

I think it's silly to let one bad experience you had while flying a vessel that looks like an easy target through a densely populated system close off all the potential Open has, even for those who'd rather avoid a fight.

And how did it take three interdictions by players for you to realize you were in open?

SOL systhem, that should be an rather safe place.
And it was maybe 12 days into elite and i was rather busy dogding pirates to contemplate long about what is going on until i managed to dock at Daedalus and savegame.
Now I am flying a T9, do you really think i risk 9 mill just to look if things are not "that bad" or if pirates "really do not want to just blow me up to have an notch more for the race to elite or just for fun?
Trading is not THAT much money that two times would not force me to downgrade to an smaller ship.

 

[Tigga]

I don't mind if you want to play solo. Go ahead. Your lack of experience in open play does kinda make it hard to put any weight to your points given this thread is about stuff that only happens in open play.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the super-quick "submit" FSD Cooldown was increased somewhat, after FD chew over how gameplay is working out.

Same goes for the "big ship, small ship" impact on FSD charge times. A saw a Python go "from zero to gone" in 6-7 seconds at a time when there were six small to medium-sized ships attacking it. That may be exactly what FD want for the mechanic... but it wouldn't shock me if it got tweaked a little...

 

[Darian]

I don't mind if you want to play solo. Go ahead. Your lack of experience in open play does kinda make it hard to put any weight to your points given this thread is about stuff that only happens in open play.

Oh i will play in open, but you can bet in nothing that costs more than an cobra, risk reward is just not for it to trade in open.
And you do not have to play in open to understand the game mechanics and how things will develop with them the way they are.

If Elite Dangerous does not die quitely due lack of customers but does take of grande (i do hope offcourse) you will enjoy an big number of people in open who think it hillarious to make your ship explode.

That is how things are in games with pvp enabled, no exeption.

You will have in open sidewinders, eagles and maybe the one or other cobra, but nothing that costs more then 3 mill insurance tops.

Solo will be money grind, open will be an free for all.

Someway like EVE the core systhems are for the money grind and the outer systhems to blow things up.

 

[Leighroy]

I suspect the plan for Elite includes a sub-clause that says "don't be like Eve-online". FSD scramblers are going a bit down that route. And whilst we are on the subject, Elite is much more fun then Eve because it doesn't have that draconian skill tree.

 

[Morbad]

SOL systhem, that should be an rather safe place.

Why?

Everyone goes to Sol, especially early on. Everyone else knows that everyone else goes to Sol, especially early on. It should be fairly obvious that this enormous population density presents dangers and that those looking to cause trouble are attracted to Sol and other population centers.

No amount of increase NPC security could begin to counter this.

Now I am flying a T9, do you really think i risk 9 mill just to look if things are not "that bad" or if pirates "really do not want to just blow me up to have an notch more for the race to elite or just for fun?

If you aren't playing for fun, I'm not sure what you are playing for, but whatever it is, it's your business.

Regardless, killing your Type-9 doesn't give your killer anything except a bounty.

risk reward is just not for it to trade in open.

For most people interested in Open, as opposed to a large non-PvP private group, the risk is much of the reward.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

The reason mass lock works the way it does is a matter of balance. It simply would be massively unfair and imbalanced for people in a 300k ship to have the upper hand on someone that has 20 million invested into theirs, so they have the mass lock mechanic in place so that you can only effectively pirate ships in the same price range as the one you are flying in if the trader pilot knows what they're doing.

Don't put words in my mouth, I didnt say a cobra should be able to have the upperhand against a type 7. I said, 500k ship should have at least a small chance against A 1.5 mil ship. lighter ships that are close in weight should mass lock at least to a small degree, 2x or 4x. this includes cobra vs type 6, asp vs type 7 and clipper or dropship vs type 9. repeat I'm not saying they should be able to hold them indefinitely, but at least get a small amount of mass lock to give them a small chance to pirate.

As far as what doesn't seem right to you, if you've chosen preying on harmless and hard working traders and forcibly stealing from them as a pirate for financial gain I think its pretty clear that your moral compass as to what is right and wrong is not functioning properly.

There's so much wrong with this statement it gives me a headache. we are both playing a video game, neither one of us is "hardworking" this is just a fun little hobby we both share. If a video game is hard work for you, then you're either a Chinese gold farmer or you're doing it wrong.

You're also questioning my real life moral compass, because I spend my time using my imaginary money pixels to steal another persons imaginary money pixels. My moral compass is working fine, I have the self awareness to realize its just a video game and i shouldn't question people because of how they choose to act in it.

 

[Tigga]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jordan Cobalt again."



Have a "+1 if I could".

 

[Darian]

you are aware that quite many do not look for game reward when they blow up another players ship, as more costly the better.
I played three years in Eve online and know quite well how it is.