The Wings discussion thread

Wings: Should ED now support groups with in game mechanics

  • Yes, support groups/clans/organisations with some in game mechanics.

    Votes: 20 60.6%

  • No, nothing, leave it as it is.

    Votes: 13 39.4%
  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

Rhaedas

Rhaedas
Given previous complaints from pirates about the larger ships being able to slip back into SC without effort, maybe wolfpack tactics will even that field, as a Lakon will be a bit more impeded by a number of ship masses as well as fight power. So I'm sure it will swing the other way again, that player groups are too powerful for a single ship. But...of course they would be. It doesn't mean that it's hopeless for the victim, it just means they need to change how they approach routing, avoidance, situational awareness, and having contacts.

I mean it's more fun if it's a challenge on both sides, right?
 

nats

Banned
nats
Its a very good question because I remember in Frontier and FFE getting attacked by even 2 or 3 other small ships was usually lethal. ONe ship you can usually beat two or three and its game over. And definitely 2 or 3 player ships and it would be game over. If they dont extend the loan system to allow for rebuying the larger ships there are going to be lots of disgruntled players out there. Whereas I think for Ai misisons wings should be enabled I dont think players should be able to form wings and travel around attacking people. That will just make the griefing issue worse. I have nothing against allowing people to take on wingmen roles to defend transports etc though. It needs to be controlled in the mission mechanics.
 

{SAS}Stalker

{SAS}Stalker
From the December wings thread in was insinuated by the devs that because chain jumping wasnt going to happen, joint interdiction / joint defence would be decided on a similar mini game mechanic to current interdiction. The result being not every attacker or defender will make it in.
 

Skip Intro

Skip Intro
Cybermykl said:
Or, play in solo mode. If it gets bad enough, a lot of people will resort to solo mode to get some action without the overkill of 4:1.
Click to expand...

It amuses me to death that a feature not yet tested, never mind implemented, has quickly brought out the old tropes of "a lot of people" and "resort to Solo mode". Does anyone know how Wings will impact the game? No? Really? Does anyone know how Wings will work in Solo / Private Groups? No? Really?

Fear is not the mind killer, endless unfounded speculation is the mind killer, it seems.
 

Binkles

Binkles
Mohrgan said:
Do you think you would have a chance against 4 other players at once? I don;t expect ever to be that capable, not even today's fighter pilots stick around against those odds.
Click to expand...

Agreed, even 4 basic Sidewinders will pack an intimidating amount of firepower. And I expect that even with turrets, you can only really focus on one player at a time.

That being said, I think that Open play needs the wings addition. It will help to encourage grouping which in turn should make open play feel more populated and-dare I say it-dangerous.

I really like the way that players can flit between the different modes. Somedays I might feel like running with a pack (Open), just tooling around peacefully with others (Private/PVE) or having some time alone (Solo). I'm looking forward to this update.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Rhaedas said:
Given previous complaints from pirates about the larger ships being able to slip back into SC without effort, maybe wolfpack tactics will even that field, as a Lakon will be a bit more impeded by a number of ship masses as well as fight power. So I'm sure it will swing the other way again, that player groups are too powerful for a single ship. But...of course they would be. It doesn't mean that it's hopeless for the victim, it just means they need to change how they approach routing, avoidance, situational awareness, and having contacts.

I mean it's more fun if it's a challenge on both sides, right?
Click to expand...

I can totally relate to that. I have great sympathy for the Pirates out there. I tried and fail at that particular trade. And needing a group of smaller craft to take down a Large craft makes snese. But, what makes you think that fat T-9 Pilot will do his/her Trade runs in Open? I don;t see anyone risking that too terribly often. My guess is that those Wolf-Packs will end up having to prey on NPC's and themselves. By retaining some sense of balance, I believe more players will stay in Open. No one wants to face an unfair fight, and having the out of hitting the Solo option will further separate the community.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Skip Intro said:
It amuses me to death that a feature not yet tested, never mind implemented, has quickly brought out the old tropes of "a lot of people" and "resort to Solo mode". Does anyone know how Wings will impact the game? No? Really? Does anyone know how Wings will work in Solo / Private Groups? No? Really?

Fear is not the mind killer, endless unfounded speculation is the mind killer, it seems.
Click to expand...

You miss the point entirely. It's too late to make commentary on a released system, and why not just have a nice chat over it. I'm not quitting. I'm not trying to establish the rules here, I'm just interested in seeing what's on the players minds. That may be too much for you, but in America we can discuss things. (A reference to your space helmet).
 

Skip Intro

Skip Intro
Mohrgan said:
You miss the point entirely. It's too late to make commentary on a released system, and why not just have a nice chat over it. I'm not quitting. I'm not trying to establish the rules here, I'm just interested in seeing what's on the players minds. That may be too much for you, but in America we can discuss things. (A reference to your space helmet).
Click to expand...

Somewhat like the thread about a potential GOONSwarm invasion, there is little mileage to be gained in entering into "a lot of players will" speculation. OP has got their knickers in a twist about 4:1 odds already. No one knows how that's going to work, not me, not you.

Your original post was not seeking what other players are thinking BYW, you gave your opinion on the matter:


Cybermykl said:
Or, play in solo mode. If it gets bad enough, a lot of people will resort to solo mode to get some action without the overkill of 4:1.
Click to expand...

You or I do not know how Wings will be implemented in any mode, Open / Solo / Group so it is a specious statement, though you have, through your wonderful American Laws and amendments to them, the absolute right to say it.

Here in Soviet Russia, the Law amends YOU :)
 

Zenicetus

Zenicetus
I'm pretty sure the intent of Wings is to provide a cooperative mode without necessarily making it an "I win" button that everyone defaults to in All Online mode. No idea how they'll balance that, though.

One way to offset the advantage in numbers would be if they introduce hire-able NPC wingmen at the same time. A decent player will beat an NPC ship, but a Cobra NPC with 4 beam turrets and shield/armor upgrades is nothing to sneeze at. It takes time to defeat, which gives the human player either help in escaping or at least a chance in the fight.

Hire-able NPC Wingmen would have broad appeal across all three player modes. It was mentioned in the DDA's, even to the extent of having untrustworthy NPC wingmen who might turn on you, although that's probably just one of those pie-in-the-sky ideas the FDEVs toss out there.
 

Mohrgan

Mohrgan
Skip Intro said:
Somewhat like the thread about a potential GOONSwarm invasion, there is little mileage to be gained in entering into "a lot of players will" speculation. OP has got their knickers in a twist about 4:1 odds already. No one knows how that's going to work, not me, not you.

Your original post was not seeking what other players are thinking BYW, you gave your opinion on the matter:


You or I do not know how Wings will be implemented in any mode, Open / Solo / Group so it is a specious statement, though you have, through your wonderful American Laws and amendments to them, the absolute right to say it.

Here in Soviet Russia, the Law amends YOU :)
Click to expand...

Na, I posted 2 specific questions. Your nickers may need some seeing to. I am interested in what the ED world has to say. Let them speak. Don't judge.
 

Binkles

Binkles
Mohrgan said:
I can totally relate to that. I have great sympathy for the Pirates out there. I tried and fail at that particular trade. And needing a group of smaller craft to take down a Large craft makes snese. But, what makes you think that fat T-9 Pilot will do his/her Trade runs in Open? I don;t see anyone risking that too terribly often. My guess is that those Wolf-Packs will end up having to prey on NPC's and themselves. By retaining some sense of balance, I believe more players will stay in Open. No one wants to face an unfair fight, and having the out of hitting the Solo option will further separate the community.
Click to expand...

Maybe you'll ultimately be right, but I'm not so sure because...

Windscreen Smudge said:
When larger groups are involved mines will actually gain some traction too. And be universally hated by friend and foe alike.
Click to expand...

When I play in Open (and bear in mind I probably suck at PVP much much worse than you) it amazes me to see player trading ships cruising around with no shields and small gimballed hardpoints best suited for smaller dogfighters. The dedicated trading vessels are not Millennium Falcons, even though the T-6 becomes quite nippy with upgraded power and thrusters. A couple of Mine Launchers, a shield recharge pack and decent power pack/router/armour would surely increase the chances for an escape. If there is room for a turret or two, even better. Mines slow down and damage players trying to line up a shot. Turrets can deter them when they get closer. But of course, escape is not guaranteed and survival becomes less likely in a trading ship if the pilot maintains the mindset that human players will fight like the NPCs. With new players in basic ships and little credit, it isn't so easy to adopt this approach and I'm not sure what the safeguards will be, if any.

BTW I just saw Zeneticus's post about NPC wingmen. Yeah, I hope FD will put something like that in as well.
 
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Flappers

Flappers
You can still do wolf pack tactics now without wings... it's just the rewards are not shared.

The only difference this will make is to allow friends to bounty hunt/ do missions together without worrying about who gets last hit
 

Zenicetus

Zenicetus
Flappers said:
You can still do wolf pack tactics now without wings... it's just the rewards are not shared.

The only difference this will make is to allow friends to bounty hunt/ do missions together without worrying about who gets last hit
Click to expand...

It's probably more than that, based on what's in the DDA for this and Sandro's last comments in December.

It will probably include color-coded icons in the scanner for your wingmen, color-coded low and high energy wakes so you can follow in and out of SC and Hyperdrive (to compensate for drive slaving being canned). Also no friendly fire repercussions, shared cargo and bounties, and probably a private comms channel for the Wing.

The pass/fail on Wings (IMO) will be whether you can follow wingmen into an interdiction instance in time to help, using manual flying and whatever other cues are offered like colored wakes. Since interdiction is the primary way to initiate combat now (aside from station camping), it has to work both for escorted traders and attacking pirates... or any other scenario.
 

Helo

H
Skip Intro said:
It amuses me to death that a feature not yet tested, never mind implemented, has quickly brought out the old tropes of "a lot of people" and "resort to Solo mode". Does anyone know how Wings will impact the game? No? Really? Does anyone know how Wings will work in Solo / Private Groups? No? Really?

Fear is not the mind killer, endless unfounded speculation is the mind killer, it seems.
Click to expand...

Niiiiiice sifi geek reference, top tier.
 

Rennard

R
When proper penalties/bounties are implemented for players killing innocent ships (players with no bounty or cargo in non-anarchy systems) then the bulk of this problem will go away.
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Sure there will still be some determine individuals or groups that want to be dorks but they will quickly either a) run out of money; b) get hounded by groups of player bounty hunters such that they dare not leave anarchy systems in case they are located.
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My interpretation off the DDA is that is how it is planned to work. It just isn't there yet.
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If they implement proper system security before wings then it should work out fine imo.
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I am looking forward to both systems being perfect and the inevitable clash of player groups that will emerge.
Team 1 - "The Noob Campers"
Team 2 - "The Bounty Hunting Elite"
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Let the chaos begin! (and someone better get it on youtube :D )
 
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