Scrap or redesign shield cell modules, they are too overpowered and trivialize PvP.

Defacto

Defacto
mugendo said:
The 'play balance issues'....now it's confirmed the PvP crew are here :rolleyes:
Don't take away trader protection while the FSD charges up.
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Don't take away the trader protection while the FSD charges up? Uh?

I don't know what shields cells have to do that's specifically related to PvP, I think any problems are either related to combat as a whole or player vs NPC fighting.
 
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NeilF

NeilF
Kortossis said:
Someone said it earlier..two types of people, your the one that comes to the forums to complain.
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Confused?

I (& others) are discussing what we feel are some issues with the Shield Cell mechanic.

Clearly you have a problem with this debate, so instead of putting your case forwards you polarise the matter by suggesting people are one of two types? "Complainers" and "non-complainers"? What does this achieve? Why do you feel the need to take it in that direction?

By your logic, as Sandro isn't happy with the current mechanics (like some of the rest of us?) Sandro is a "complainer"?
 
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Kortossis

Kortossis
NeilF said:
You can articulate/express yourself how you best see fit, but please (again) stop doing little more than making personally orientated posts telling people they are "whining".

So by all means continue with your personal antics because I'll happily let the mods dictate how freely you can express yourself repeatedly in such a (needless) fashion.



Wise words. Try it without the needless personal jibes though.
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you sure like the phrase "personal jibes" is it in your vocabulary? I think it is. Someone is in your wheelhouse, full rudder control. They can steer you left, they can steer you right, they can pop a shield cell and make you SCREAM all night.

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No some people are discussing it. Clearly.
Some {cough} are just attacking NeilF...because they don't agree with your point.
 

Kortossis

Kortossis
well im off to go try them and see what all the hub bub is.

3 x A2 = 18 pops, that should give me..18 tries at it.
not over and over and over and over, just 18.
 

Tenshi

Tenshi
Frewq said:
Would be good to get a heads up when you roll this out, it'd be frustrating to deploy weapons and have everything unexpectedly shutdown. A 1% increase in the shield cells will shut me down right now. :)

No objection to the tweaks though, shield cells are very cheap right now.
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Read the patch notes ?
 

NeilF

NeilF
Given Sandro's comments:-

Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commanders!

Just a quick heads up: we've been looking at the stats for shield cell banks and have made some tweaks, which should filter out in a near future update. Basically, cell capacities have been reduced, cost per cell has been increased, and the passive power draw for having a cell bank active has increased.

We're not totally convinced this is the end of tweaking shield cell banks, but we think it will be a move in the right direction.
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If we break that into its elements:-

"cell capacities have been reduced"
So they charge your shields up less?

This will be interesting to see, as if they instead of maybe recharging your shields in effect fully, they only do smaller job so only give you 1-2 rings? So rather than returning you to business as usual, it's a small respite?

I like this idea personally. They help a bit, rather than completely undoing any/all damage (to your shields) an opponent has done. Just as long as the cells can't be fired too often of course :)

"cost per cell has been increased"
I assume this means each shield cell module is more expensive?

Not sure this effects things at all, unless prices are monstrous? But I'd imagine this won't affect CMDR's use of them and/or choice of owning more than one?

"passive power draw for having a cell bank active has increased"
So multiple units could draw too much power?

This could prove interesting as a mechanic to try and limit people to one (or at least least less) units? But what would prevent people still having multiple and only powering one at a time. A Voice Attack script could in a second flick one unit off, and another on, so a CMDR could still sit there firing off three shield cell units during a single attack?


Guess we'll see how these changes affect things in 3-4 weeks?
 
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Defacto

Defacto
Hmm, about that passive power draw

If having a SCB instead would increase the passive power draw of the shield generator itself, instead of the bank taking power, you would have to turn off the shields to save power instead, which solves this ''exploit''.
 

bassman

B
NeilF said:
Confused?

I (& others) are discussing what we feel are some issues with the Shield Cell mechanic.

Clearly you have a problem with this debate,
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Your right but I suggest you stop engaging with the guy - hes just wasting bytes, let him, Sandro is here on the thread and hes listening to what the likes of you and I are saying and thats all that matters.

Also worth remembering that the forum has an ignore user feature. From now on anyone I see accusing other people of being complainers or whiners and generally just trying to to interfere with everyone's right to discuss things is going straight on it.
 
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Morbad

Morbad
Defacto said:
Hmm, about that passive power draw

If having a SCB instead would increase the passive power draw of the shield generator itself, instead of the bank taking power, you would have to turn off the shields to save power instead, which solves this ''exploit''.
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What exploit?

It's not often wise to leave your SCB disabled and then try to reenable it, in combat, to use it, then switch it off again to be able to use your weapons.
 

Tar Stone

Banned
Tar Stone
Adept said:
They used to be much more dangerous.

The same logic that gave us shield cells turned the rather dangerous NPCs from the earlier Beta into the farmable cannon fodder we have now. I was really nervous going up against _sidewinders_ with twin railguns at one point. Those NPCs were killers. Likwise I was outflown by an NPC Cobra using FA-off and translational thrust masterfully when I was in my pimped out sidey. I was cheering all the while. Those are the sort of NPCs we need, not the farmable idiots flying around with no ahields we have now :(
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This needs to be pointed out daily. It's difficult to convey how thrilling fighting NPCs used to be.

Poor Kate Russell must be bored out of her head. At least she'll have a couple of royalty cheques by now.
 

Hitsuke

Hitsuke
You don't balance ship modules around PvP... it's as simple as that.

You try to find a balance that fits in with ALL play styles. The A class modules make more sense, the b class should have less, to remove the spammability.

It should to me like people want to be able to burst anyone down in 20 seconds... tough. I like the drawn out fights, because thats a lot more like how it should be. These arent toy planes shooting at each other, they are futuristic space ships.
 

bassman

B
Morbad said:
What exploit?

It's not often wise to leave your SCB disabled and then try to reenable it, in combat, to use it, then switch it off again to be able to use your weapons.
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The "exploit" is having multiple units without incurring multiple sets of power draw by only having one unit enabled at a time - not switching on and off one unit (which would be very difficult in practice).
 
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Morbad

Morbad
bassman said:
The "exploit" is having multiple units without incurring multiple sets of power draw by only having one unit enabled at a time.
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I don't consider it an issue. You can't use them until you enable them, and if you are trying to enable them in a fight, you leave yourself open, if only for a moment (which is really all it takes). The fact that you are carrying around extra dead weight until you enable them is more than enough trade off.
 

StargazerJ

S
tagos said:
You can pop more and don't share cooldowns (but I may be wrong on that). ED is not a game of twitch skills, it's a game of wits.

I've played MMO's for way too long and if there's one thing I've learned is there are two types of reactions when faced with adversity like potions/shield cells etc.

One type heads for the armoury and the practice field. The other heads for the forums.
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Sorry tagos but I have to disagree, Elite is THE twitch skill game currently but also involves wits which is great. The game you're describing is EVE.
 
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Defacto

Defacto
Hitsuke said:
You don't balance ship modules around PvP... it's as simple as that.

You try to find a balance that fits in with ALL play styles. The A class modules make more sense, the b class should have less, to remove the spammability.

It should to me like people want to be able to burst anyone down in 20 seconds... tough. I like the drawn out fights, because thats a lot more like how it should be. These arent toy planes shooting at each other, they are futuristic space ships.
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And SCB's are probably one of the worst possible ways to stop just that from happening, since they are irrelevant in the cases where burst damage actually will cause shield failure before the SCB's can kick in.
In the cases where we get long drawn-out fights, well... you know, long drawn-out fights happened before we had SCB's too, so I don't agree with any claims that SCB's have a use as a way to induce long, drawn-out fights, although that often is the result... if both sides have SCB's. If only one does, not so much.

And if you don't balance modules around PvP, what do you balance it around then?
Player vs NPC combat? :D
 
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