400+ Billion Stars but to what end?

[Monarch Black]

400 billion is a really hard number to imagine. If ED sold 500,000 units, that would be a personal domain of 800,000 systems per person. If you played 12 hours a day, every day, and spent 10 minutes in each system, it would take you over 30 years to visit your personal domain, and that is for each of those half million people with nobody visiting another's system. If everyone in the world played ED, they could each have 57 systems to themselves.

The problem I see is that 99.999999% of the systems don't have any station or way to dock (maybe lower, that is 4000 systems with a dock). The space is massively-enormous, but it isn't like you can find a place to live out in the black. No matter how far you go out, you still have to come all the way back to the blob of populated space. I could move forward for a very long time exploring, but after so long it just becomes painful because at some point you are going to have to come all the way back. You are never going to find that rare port, be it alien or a long-lost human colony. Hats-off to the people who have made it to the hub and beyond. I never made it farther than 1000-1500 ly away from the most remote port because I knew I had to come back and didn't want to go out so far I'd rather quit the game than fly back to civilization.

 

[Kars Vandor]

nope. 2 days after the thing broke with the server update on i think the 16th, I got some great help 2 days ago.

People up at 2 am in UK making sure i had drivers, .net, windows updates in, wrong ones out and in the end it came down to:

I have before the two recent updates played for a total of 10 hours in game, so my drivers and such are all good...can log in to combat practice but the full game launcher crashes before the logo.

I can crash start EliteDangerous32. exe manually without the launcher, but the login check drops me out.

they thanked me for my patience and working with them told me very clearly they know it needs fixed, are working on it, and will email me when a fix is in. No specific day. I feel like my back and forth with them was more than polite, productive and I am not seeking a refund or anything of the sort. I will buy one of the T-Shirts.

Early this AM, I saw a voice attack thread, and the light bulb kicked in. I already have a desktop AI that I can talk to in English, it does tasks for me, but never hooked it into a game.

I paid 8 bucks for VA, and 8 more for a voice pack, analyzed how it does what, and am now making my own personal voice pack and going to be making a video for youTube, using the combat tutorials, once I figure out how to use, twitch, i guess.

and i bought some DVI-I cables to make a 3 faced surround video monitor wall after seeing the show us your rig thread.

and i fed the cat and dumped out the cat box. and had three different groups here in PGH out of the blue beg me to go back to running Traveller.

I don't care if it takes a week or if It doesn't get fixed until 1.1 I learned in the navy how to endure long periods of stuff that won't happen for 7 months like: seeing my family again.

Customer service, when you get a hold of them, are VERY, VERY Cool, specific and detailed.


That was my day, Thanks for asking.

When I hit the sky sometime in the future I will be a real menace to 399.999999 billion stars that I will explore.

 

[N-Zed]

I hope you can join us soon, you seem like a real nice person to know. If and when your YT tutorials are online please post them so we can share the love.

 

[Kars Vandor]

...after so long it just becomes painful because at some point you are going to have to come all the way back.

I think that's admirable dedication. Probably down the road, they will have players set up deep space stations or something. I know when I was in game , I was hitting lots of completely unexplored systems with no docks no civilization, then I knew I was finally out in the rim colonies and beyond.

 

[ollobrains]

thats the whole idea, the galaxy will never be explored. They should add some content out there or some form of expansion. For now its just there to be mapped and give the players something to do, yesterday they added security level of systems to system map. This is how safe it is. So they seem to be adding small bits of content every day or so. Its interesting to watch.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

How does SC solve that PVP problem in certain sectors? It implements - beatable - high security sector measurements. Just like in Freelancer and EVE. Why didn't FD think about this?

I'm sure they did, and it might even still be on the cards as one of the tweaks.

However, FD are doing something different with ED. They are not following established "good ideas", they are trying to break the mold, give a different type of experience. They won't get everything right for sure, but at least its not just a clone of previous space sims.

I've been looking at SC, and to be honest, looking how its going, i'll probably not be buying it. Its kind of just pandering to the masses, following the same old methods that have been done a million times before in space sims.

I do see when both games have been on the market for a while, that there will be quite a difference in the type of players that stick with the games.

I think SC will appeal more to the "I want to win" crowd. I think ED appeals more to the "I want to experience" crowd. (and of course plenty of people which will like both and play both!).

Regarding the FPS module for Star Citizen... well, ED will have the ability to walk around as one of its major expansions, and who knows, maybe we will get that even before SC is released. I doubt it will be like an FPS though. It really wouldn't fit the game. I mean, if I wanted to play an FPS i'd fire up Quake or something.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

400 billion is a really hard number to imagine. If ED sold 500,000 units, that would be a personal domain of 800,000 systems per person. If you played 12 hours a day, every day, and spent 10 minutes in each system, it would take you over 30 years to visit your personal domain, and that is for each of those half million people with nobody visiting another's system. If everyone in the world played ED, they could each have 57 systems to themselves.

The problem I see is that 99.999999% of the systems don't have any station or way to dock (maybe lower, that is 4000 systems with a dock). The space is massively-enormous, but it isn't like you can find a place to live out in the black. No matter how far you go out, you still have to come all the way back to the blob of populated space. I could move forward for a very long time exploring, but after so long it just becomes painful because at some point you are going to have to come all the way back. You are never going to find that rare port, be it alien or a long-lost human colony. Hats-off to the people who have made it to the hub and beyond. I never made it farther than 1000-1500 ly away from the most remote port because I knew I had to come back and didn't want to go out so far I'd rather quit the game than fly back to civilization.

Haha, i'm almost back to inhabited space after a 10,000+ LY round trip. Exploring isn't for everyone, but fortunately the game offers different roles for different people.

And as for a majority of space lacking stations, yup, makes perfect sense. Who knows though, in the future, we might get alien races... maybe with their own products. Perhaps a race of Greebles that like 10,000LY from Sol, but if you stock up your cargo hold with human goods you can sell them in Greeble territory for a massive profit. Or go fly to their systems and try and start a war between humanity and the aliens!

 

[jpaulwilson1982]

This may seem like an unusual comparison, but the size of the Elite Universe appeals to me the same way that The Legend of Zelda: The WindWaker appealed to me. I remember first playing WindWaker on my Nintendo GameCube years ago... After you get through the first part of the story, Link gets a boat to leave his home-island. The first time I went out on that vast ocean with hundreds of islands stretched across a vast ocean, I stared at the screen in awe as I realized just how large that world was. I never saw every island in WindWaker, and didn't find every secret, as I'm sure most folks didn't. Lots of people like to stick to the road most traveled, sticking to the story-line and never diverting their path. For the few who are explorers at heart, this type of large, sandbox world is what satisfies and tantalizes us.

Also, look at Skyrim. In that game exists a large empire with towns and cities, and thousands of caves to explore. What's the point since most folks won't see all that stuff? Because there's a few who will. There's some people who become so wrapped up in a game that they simply cannot get enough.

Elite Dangerous seems to be following this path. Sure, there isn't much going on in most of it now, but as the game grows, and as the community grows, there will be much, much. more to see and experience. I mean, sure, the entire galaxy in this game will not be explored. But that isn't point. The point is for the Elite Universe to feel truly vast, to make you feel like a speck in a vast stretch space. Sure, this could have been satisfied by a million stars instead of 400 billion, but when I look around on the galaxy map, I'm simply swept away. I am very impressed by FD's work on the structure and size of the game-world they created, and I'm not easily impressed.

Essentially, I just like Elite Dangerous. It satisfies my desire to explore that no game has been able to match since StarFlight on the Sega Genesis. With Starflight, I'm sure someone asked, "What's the point in having hundreds of star systems? Most people won't visit them, and they just sit there looking pretty." But its the freedom and the extent to which you can go to exercise that freedom. Even when I do go back and play Starflight, there's always something new for me to see. I love it.

Plus, I'm the type of person who looks at the universe and feels a sense of wonder at its immensity and beauty and order. It feels like I'm staring into the mind of God, and it reminds me that there's far more taking place in all of creation than just me and my own comparatively small life. When I look at that galaxy map, though it is only representation of what's really out there, it just feels real and gives me a sense that I'm an actual explorer in the real Milky Way Galaxy. I look at that galaxy map and feel "this is absurd" while simultaneously feeling "this is what's supposed to really be out there."

So, obviously, I'm a romantic about space and exploration. And this game only adds to that romanticized notion of mine.

But, if you think it's a waste, then that's your opinion. I probably can't change that. All I can do is give my comments and feelings, and you have to decide if that's satisfactory. But let's not look down on each other for seeing this game differently. I see an amazing space epic with tons of potential, and you may see a big waste of space, time, and money. Creation is like art, we all have different interpretations.

Take care.

 

[Vandaahl]

To what end does it matter how big this place really is?

Thats up for you to decide. Just as it as in real life, you can make your world as big as you like. If 4 systems is enough to play your game in, then your world will be 4 systems big. If you are happy with that, who has the right to claim otherwise?

At least they made sure the theatre we're in is never too small for anyone (same goes for real life). I'm happy with that.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

At least they made sure the theatre we're in is never too small for anyone (same goes for real life). I'm happy with that.

I demand multiple galaxies! Then the whole universe! The I want multiverses with interdimensional travel!

 

[NeilF]

For the simple fact that we can get lost in the edges of space and never see another human in its vastness beauty is a reason to celebrate its brilliance. Most games don't give you this kind of freedom!

Psssst... Solo play!

 

[Commander Azriel]

Also, look at Skyrim. In that game exists a large empire with towns and cities, and thousands of caves to explore. What's the point since most folks won't see all that stuff? Because there's a few who will. There's some people who become so wrapped up in a game that they simply cannot get enough.

I appreciate the sentiment, but there is no comparison really. Skyrim was big, I didn't see even half of it. But if you can conceive of a number as mind boggling as 400 billion, it is just silly.

If you were to visit each system for only one second it would take 12,400 years!

That is a bit much for a video game, don't you think?

 

[NeilF]

It's got 400 billion stars because the real galaxy has 400 billion stars. They were not created with a purpose in mind either, AFAIK.
.
No other space sim conveys the unimaginable vastness of space and also its unimaginable beauty. You can set off and fly for weeks, if not months, on a solitary journey and suddenly come across a sight that is so unexpectedly beautiful that it leaves you speechless. And nobody has seen it but you. These procedurally crafted systems lay dormant in the server, possibly never to become shape and light on a screen; to remain undiscovered and unwitnessed forever, just some unknown bytes in a machine. But you found them; only you, and like a waveform collapsing under your observation their quantum state shifted from bytes to pixels and blazed into being. Their sight is yours alone. They dance for no one but you.
.
It is as close as you can get to what it must feel like to explore the stars. For that alone Elite Dangerous is not just a game; it is a work of art.

Yes an no...

I've gone out exploring and found a couple of interesting configurations of coloured balls, and seen some nice visual effects (nice eclipses and coronal ejections etc), but after a few dozen systems you soon realise the coloured balls may vary in style, but that's all you will get.

You can well travel from one side of the ED galaxy to the other, and you know, you will only ever seen variations of these same coloured balls. That's not exploration to me... Exploration needs that 1 in a 1000 chance of seeing something different to the norm, not just different variation on a common theme over and over.

In short we're in a truly massive sandbox for sure, but unfortunately the sand isn't very deep. I'm hoping over the coming months FD will put in some depth, mystery and wonder into this galaxy - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

 

[Eleazaros]

The point would be to make a universe/world that nobody will ever visit every corner of.

Assuming 8 hours of flying, 30 seconds per system (using a fuel scoop to refuel as you go), 8 hours a day you'd hit 960 systems a day.

Working with 10,000 other people, never hitting the same system as any of them - *EVER*, you'd need over 114 years to explore all the systems in the game.

There is always somewhere new out there for you to find that nobody has been to.

Oh and there is a project to try and map/record all the systems in the game: http://edstarcoordinator.com/

Will it ever finish? Nope but it'll be fun trying to help out with it.

 

[NeilF]

The point would be to make a universe/world that nobody will ever visit every corner of.

Assuming 8 hours of flying, 30 seconds per system (using a fuel scoop to refuel as you go), 8 hours a day you'd hit 960 systems a day.

Working with 10,000 other people, never hitting the same system as any of them - *EVER*, you'd need over 114 years to explore all the systems in the game.

There is always somewhere new out there for you to find that nobody has been to.

Oh and there is a project to try and map/record all the systems in the game: http://edstarcoordinator.com/

Will it ever finish? Nope but it'll be fun trying to help out with it.

But once you realise the next 1000 systems will match basically the previous 1000, what is the impotous to do them? Just to tick them off for the sake of ticking them off? Now, if there was actually the chance/risk that in one of those X thousand systems there would be something different (eg: a planet with a wrecked space elevator) other than variations of coloured balls, now surely there's a good reason to keep looking?

 

[Skip Intro]

Now, if there was actually the chance/risk that in one of those X thousand systems there would be something different (eg: a planet with a wrecked space elevator) other than variations of coloured balls, now surely there's a good reason to keep looking?

Who's to say there aren't 10,000 "Artifacts of the Ancients" sitting around some systems already?

 

[NeilF]

Who's to say there aren't 10,000 "Artifacts of the Ancients" sitting around some systems already?

What do you think?

There needs to be a whole ramp of visual improvements to allow more procedural depth across the systems, so there's the chance of seeing something quite rare in some systems. And then there needs to be some more hand designed elements too, to really add some depth.

At the moment the galaxy feels a little too empty/safe knowing every system is just coloured balls... So as per my other thread -

Spoiler

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

- Aurora borealis.
- Huge electrical storms on planets.
- Comets (scan them for CR?).
- More visual wonders. eg: Moons with huge geysers leaving ice partical trails behind them.
- Space elevators - Maybe these could have a new station type at their top? Note: Depends upon if an elevator ends far enough from surface for the current game mechanics?
- Oddities. eg: Odd huge asteroids with tunnels into their interiors (maybe even markings/glowing crystals inside) - Could contain periodic rare items? People turning up and fighting over them?
- Generation Ships (from the original Elite) to at least see/encounter. If you're stupid enough to shoot one they're protected by the military you know!
- Military bases you're not allowed to get too close to (you get warned and then attacked). Maybe sometimes they do huge weapons tests!
- Distress signals maybe go and help another ship (even just to give them some fuel?). Fetch them an item to repair them for a reward.
- Wrecks to at least look around (possibly some even have abandoned cargo you can pick up).
- Maybe even wrecked platforms/stations? Surely some have come a cropper? Imagine flying around a (pitch black) "dead station"! Some abandoned cargo/items could maybe spawn in such places periodically? Groups could try and take these over?
- Missions based on exploration (eg: find a military base on a moon in remote system X and scan it. Or monitor/watch a weapons test taking place there - Maybe this could require Silent Running? Find a wreck in system X and return an object.)
- Lots and lots more special rare such things/events/missions!
- Thargoids?

 

[Shads]

What do you think?

There needs to be a whole ramp of visual improvements to allow more procedural depth across the systems. So there's the chance of seeing something quite rare in some systems. And then there needs to be some more hand designed elements too to really add some depth.

At the moment the galaxy feels a little too empty/safe knowing every system is just coloured balls... So as per my other thread -

Spoiler

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

- Aurora borealis.
- Huge electrical storms on planets.
- Comets (scan them for CR?).
- More visual wonders. eg: Moons with huge geysers leaving ice partical trails behind them.
- Space elevators - Maybe these could have a new station type at their top? Note: Depends upon if an elevator ends far enough from surface for the current game mechanics?
- Oddities. eg: Odd huge asteroids with tunnels into their interiors (maybe even markings/glowing crystals inside) - Could contain periodic rare items? People turning up and fighting over them?
- Generation Ships (from the original Elite) to at least see/encounter. If you're stupid enough to shoot one they're protected by the military you know!
- Military bases you're not allowed to get too close to (you get warned and then attacked). Maybe sometimes they do huge weapons tests!
- Distress signals maybe go and help another ship (even just to give them some fuel?). Fetch them an item to repair them for a reward.
- Wrecks to at least look around (possibly some even have abandoned cargo you can pick up).
- Maybe even wrecked platforms/stations? Surely some have come a cropper? Imagine flying around a (pitch black) "dead station"! Some abandoned cargo/items could maybe spawn in such places periodically? Groups could try and take these over?
- Missions based on exploration (eg: find a military base on a moon in remote system X and scan it. Or monitor/watch a weapons test taking place there - Maybe this could require Silent Running? Find a wreck in system X and return an object.)
- Lots and lots more special rare such things/events/missions!
- Thargoids? [/indent]

Too empty compared to what?....the real galaxy? As far as we know thats how it is and probably will be even when we can go look. Its never going to be Alterac Valley

 

[Meteor2]

This vast galaxy is phantastic, but the question is valid IMHO.
If it would be possible for the player to build something (stations, factories, small own empires, e.g.), then there would be endless possibilities.
This is an aspect, that the X-series (X3) does very well, despite some shortcomings in other areas.
The argument "that is not Elite", does not count for me at all. At the end it is "selling games to customers" for the devs and only a long staying of the players guarantees this.
And yes, I know the old Elite, being old myself.

 

[xondk]

I appreciate the sentiment, but there is no comparison really. Skyrim was big, I didn't see even half of it. But if you can conceive of a number as mind boggling as 400 billion, it is just silly.

If you were to visit each system for only one second it would take 12,400 years!

That is a bit much for a video game, don't you think?

I hope you do realize that you are saying that a video game is TOO big?
Consider you don't "have" to explore, you can, you don't have to, the populated systems are plentiful as well with content and such. So why is it even a problem that you 'can' explore 400 billion stars? is it really a problem that it is there?