OK, well we're have to agree to disagree.
Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.
- Thread starter CrazyH0rse
- Start date
OK, well we're have to agree to disagree.
Only people who don't know what real skill is confuse this somewhat badly implemented system with difficulty.
Keeping x credits in your inventory or you lose progress is not a test of skill. If anyone says improving this system is "dumbing the game down", that's very ironic because the game is incredibly easy and this has nothing to do with difficulty. They are bad players because they want to pretend something like this makes them good. That's it.
Keeping x credits in your inventory or you lose progress is not a test of skill. If anyone says improving this system is "dumbing the game down", that's very ironic because the game is incredibly easy and this has nothing to do with difficulty. They are bad players because they want to pretend something like this makes them good. That's it.
yeah, I agree. Some people think this game should be "Elite: elitist "
Part of the problem is that it is Not difficult so reading the manual may feel not needed for most people.
Then also because it is Not difficult, the first player loss might be when they have very expensive ships
and have fallen asleep because of repetitive, easy and boring game play.
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I'm in favor of an additional warning before you undock. I'm not in favor of raising the loan amount or any other proposal to eliminate the chance of a catastrophic loss.
Hell put a big dialogue box up when a player tries to undock, that must be clicked to proceed. "I understand my funds + 200k loan will not buy my ship back. I could lose it all. OK/GO BACK"
This will make it harder for the numptie to come here to the forums and cry about it. And it won't bother me a bit because I'll never see it.\
You're right it's not a test of skill. It's a test of judgement and intelligence.
Hell put a big dialogue box up when a player tries to undock, that must be clicked to proceed. "I understand my funds + 200k loan will not buy my ship back. I could lose it all. OK/GO BACK"
This will make it harder for the numptie to come here to the forums and cry about it. And it won't bother me a bit because I'll never see it.\
You're right it's not a test of skill. It's a test of judgement and intelligence.
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A little bit back, I wrote up (THIS THREAD) on insurance and how things tend to go. An interesting point in this I initially forgotten to put in (though intended and later fixed) is that a large majority of Players that you read about, over and over , that fall into this pit and Rage-Quit actually do KNOW better be that stepping away when you auto dock, knowing the docking computer is faulty or make a conscious decision to take the risk, fly under insured and/or shield-less.
The main motivator in this is getting a few more credits in, save a round trip or two to the next ship wanted or not waiting to have extra cash when purchasing one. plain and simple, put in one word, its GREED.
To me it feels like people running a crossing in front of a train, then blaming the train for fitting them, destroying the car (which they may not even have insurance for [where did we see that before and i wonder if they got a little warning before they left their driveway that they don't have it or just decided to take the risk] ) and or get hurt. When something like that happens and you read the news about it after, you always see things like "hit by the speeding train" or similarly blaming the tain, never "the driver tried to beat a train across and lost, Darwinism at its finest" (you see a pattern here?)
Train don't really speed, and being locked onto the rails, swerving to avoid a collision is awfully hard, its simply 5 - 10000 tons of steel and whatever else it got loaded, if a train sees a car 10 ft in-front of him running a crossing and he hit the brake, it is a mile or more before he stops, inertia and mass, something you can actually see in ED too.
When you fly a bigger ship you will notice this when you turn and try to go into a mail slot. something that threw me off a few times when i got my first big ship and almost made me smack the letter box. its still the point that a large number of the rage quitters DO know better but take the risk nonetheless due to their greed or the thinking i done this a thousand times, one more won't hurt, that's when Mr Murphy comes out and whacks you.
The main motivator in this is getting a few more credits in, save a round trip or two to the next ship wanted or not waiting to have extra cash when purchasing one. plain and simple, put in one word, its GREED.
To me it feels like people running a crossing in front of a train, then blaming the train for fitting them, destroying the car (which they may not even have insurance for [where did we see that before and i wonder if they got a little warning before they left their driveway that they don't have it or just decided to take the risk] ) and or get hurt. When something like that happens and you read the news about it after, you always see things like "hit by the speeding train" or similarly blaming the tain, never "the driver tried to beat a train across and lost, Darwinism at its finest" (you see a pattern here?)
Train don't really speed, and being locked onto the rails, swerving to avoid a collision is awfully hard, its simply 5 - 10000 tons of steel and whatever else it got loaded, if a train sees a car 10 ft in-front of him running a crossing and he hit the brake, it is a mile or more before he stops, inertia and mass, something you can actually see in ED too.
When you fly a bigger ship you will notice this when you turn and try to go into a mail slot. something that threw me off a few times when i got my first big ship and almost made me smack the letter box. its still the point that a large number of the rage quitters DO know better but take the risk nonetheless due to their greed or the thinking i done this a thousand times, one more won't hurt, that's when Mr Murphy comes out and whacks you.
No it isn't a test of skill and doesn't make you a good player. It is a symptom of something a little more serious.
What it does mean is that I'm not an idiot and understand the link between action and consequence. When I take a risk and it doesn't pay off it is my fault end of, it was my decision. You always have a choice even if you have gun to your head. Not reading the manual is a choice. Not flying with insurance is a choice. Hitting the back of the station is a choice. Not preserving assets in case of an unknown bug is a choice, you know they happen!
It is fairly simple equation. I mean the insurance angle is a fairly simple mechanic you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it.
The problem is your modern child wants it all now, the insurance gets in the way of getting all now and when it goes wrong wants mum or dad (the game devs) to sort their issues. The thing is if you suck badly and these simple things in a game, life is going to come as really big shock to you.
Your approach to everything is your choice. Those that get it wrong have the wrong approach. If you ever find yourself in the minority it is usually because you're wrong. People that do this stuff are in the minority.
What it does mean is that I'm not an idiot and understand the link between action and consequence. When I take a risk and it doesn't pay off it is my fault end of, it was my decision. You always have a choice even if you have gun to your head. Not reading the manual is a choice. Not flying with insurance is a choice. Hitting the back of the station is a choice. Not preserving assets in case of an unknown bug is a choice, you know they happen!
It is fairly simple equation. I mean the insurance angle is a fairly simple mechanic you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand it.
The problem is your modern child wants it all now, the insurance gets in the way of getting all now and when it goes wrong wants mum or dad (the game devs) to sort their issues. The thing is if you suck badly and these simple things in a game, life is going to come as really big shock to you.
Your approach to everything is your choice. Those that get it wrong have the wrong approach. If you ever find yourself in the minority it is usually because you're wrong. People that do this stuff are in the minority.
Bingo. Have rep. Greed and impatience, not lack of knowledge. And a little stupid thrown in too.
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sry, too long time writing have rep Zvanya and Blake_Dragon
I agree ... and disagree:
If it's "ten more tons of gold to trade or be able to cover insurance" it's greed against safety. The relevant skill is here to resist the temptation. ED is dangerous if you can't resist your greed or impatience.
Another example is the destruction on missing landing permit. If you're impatient and eager to land, you sometimes miss it.
(i fail in these skills more often than i like... impatient to get near the next asteroid to mine)
I agree ... and disagree:
If it's "ten more tons of gold to trade or be able to cover insurance" it's greed against safety. The relevant skill is here to resist the temptation. ED is dangerous if you can't resist your greed or impatience.
Another example is the destruction on missing landing permit. If you're impatient and eager to land, you sometimes miss it.
(i fail in these skills more often than i like... impatient to get near the next asteroid to mine)
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How would a warning message that - you, personally, are never likely to see neuter the game?
Implying ED is not a casual game. It's so easy it may as well be called one.
What amazes me, while reading through a bunch of these replies, is that so many people seem to mistake user friendlyness with dumbing down.
A game doesn't have to be simple, easy, casual, or dumbed down to present its information in a clear manner, nor does it have to be any less hardcore, just because most things require hours of study on other sites and/or the forums (yes, over stated a bit for dramatic effect).
One could argue that it would be a more difficult *and* more enjoyable game if the information you needed could easily be found, in a clearly presented matter and then *still* managed to challenge you. You know, challenge you in a way that required you to use all its systems to maximum effect to come out on top. Not challenge you in a "Oh, you didn't know about this obscure feature? Sucks to be you!" kind of way. Elite, currently, doesn't do enough of the former and far too much of the latter. Like DF (Dwarf Fortress), its difficulty through obscurity which isn't actual difficulty.
A game doesn't have to be simple, easy, casual, or dumbed down to present its information in a clear manner, nor does it have to be any less hardcore, just because most things require hours of study on other sites and/or the forums (yes, over stated a bit for dramatic effect).
One could argue that it would be a more difficult *and* more enjoyable game if the information you needed could easily be found, in a clearly presented matter and then *still* managed to challenge you. You know, challenge you in a way that required you to use all its systems to maximum effect to come out on top. Not challenge you in a "Oh, you didn't know about this obscure feature? Sucks to be you!" kind of way. Elite, currently, doesn't do enough of the former and far too much of the latter. Like DF (Dwarf Fortress), its difficulty through obscurity which isn't actual difficulty.
Oh, god forbid the game is responsible for any anger caused, it's all their fault and thats the end of it!
Ridiculous, to be fair if the game was as good as many of you claim it is then there wouldn't be any issues for anyone.
The only reason you lot see no issues is due to the fact you don't see them as issues, well good for you eh.
And ED is complex .... really, you can put your hand on your heart and say with all honesty that ED, as a game, is "complex"? I doubt that very much indeed.
I think much of the back lash is more to do with the wider games industry as a whole. Players are sick of half baked games being rushed out the door and then being drip fed patches to "fix" the broken game, that by all rights, should work right out of the box/download, and at the moment, ED, whether you like it or not, is a half baked game at best. Okay so it looks great and it has some polish. But at the moment I think most players of ED will tell you it's not finished by a long shot.
More and more I see DB as just another peter molyneux.
FD are not god and they should be told if someone is unhappy with the product they have produced.
But instead they get the DB army descend upon them like a black cloud of self righteous locusts eager to shout them down as either stupid, not a "true" gamer or like in most cases just told to sod off and come back when your better. But oh god, it's not the games fault.
And i'll ignore the usual caveat of how i love ED and all that jazz just to sugar coat it for the locusts .
But of course my opinion is irrelevant to you lot because i'm not stroking DB's ego.
Ridiculous, to be fair if the game was as good as many of you claim it is then there wouldn't be any issues for anyone.
The only reason you lot see no issues is due to the fact you don't see them as issues, well good for you eh.
And ED is complex .... really, you can put your hand on your heart and say with all honesty that ED, as a game, is "complex"? I doubt that very much indeed.
I think much of the back lash is more to do with the wider games industry as a whole. Players are sick of half baked games being rushed out the door and then being drip fed patches to "fix" the broken game, that by all rights, should work right out of the box/download, and at the moment, ED, whether you like it or not, is a half baked game at best. Okay so it looks great and it has some polish. But at the moment I think most players of ED will tell you it's not finished by a long shot.
More and more I see DB as just another peter molyneux.
FD are not god and they should be told if someone is unhappy with the product they have produced.
But instead they get the DB army descend upon them like a black cloud of self righteous locusts eager to shout them down as either stupid, not a "true" gamer or like in most cases just told to sod off and come back when your better. But oh god, it's not the games fault.
And i'll ignore the usual caveat of how i love ED and all that jazz just to sugar coat it for the locusts .
But of course my opinion is irrelevant to you lot because i'm not stroking DB's ego.
here is another thing. before long we probably get the option for cargo insurance too. (after all, there is a line in the system panel for it (right hand side)) I am curious to see how that will be implemented and got popcorn ready, for the threads after on people who did not buy it and lose millions in cargo 
Their presence in game affects my leisure time, they'll eventually screw up the game so if you all leave, well, thanks for all the fish but you won't be missed. At all
2) The Good, this is how it SHOULD look
3) the Bad, if it looks like this, you may want to sell some modules before you take off or make more money first by using a cheaper ship.
Very interesting.
I noticed those screen shots.
Is that how it looks now in the game?
I had not noticed but I feel that is how it should look and if its like that already.
Then that should be waring enough I agree.
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It really is a wonder the devs haven't added this by now.
I cant understand the resistance against having a warning if you are about to launch without insurance coverage. There is a lot of other simple warnings in the game, this one is no different.
Put in an option like with the preflight check so you can disable the warning...
Also players quitting means no friends recruited and less sold expansions - which is the long term income for this game.
Put in an option like with the preflight check so you can disable the warning...
Also players quitting means no friends recruited and less sold expansions - which is the long term income for this game.
This issue needed more drama. Thanks for supplying it.
I don't understand that either. It won't bother me in any way because I wont see it, and it's no more dumbing the game down than the other warnings that already exist.
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RISK is part of this game and IMPORTANT, and should not be dumd'ed down for the lazy or people taking the time to use tutorials, read manual, use solo mode or use forum. NOT an arcade game.
Yes I have made a few mistakes as I jumped in without knowing some things (Fines, lack of fuel, REAL combat PVP and how to cope). But that is why there are tutorials in your face at the start and in main menu for game.
A lot of these problems are lack of information (Maybe something that could be improved), greed, mistakes in playing and other players being trolls (Happens in most online games).
OK rant over
P.S. I personally liked finding thinks out on my own, but I do not blame the game (Bad worker blames his tools).
Yes I have made a few mistakes as I jumped in without knowing some things (Fines, lack of fuel, REAL combat PVP and how to cope). But that is why there are tutorials in your face at the start and in main menu for game.
A lot of these problems are lack of information (Maybe something that could be improved), greed, mistakes in playing and other players being trolls (Happens in most online games).
OK rant over
P.S. I personally liked finding thinks out on my own, but I do not blame the game (Bad worker blames his tools).
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