Wow. You really got me all figured out I guess. You're right I never want to see this game changed or improved in any way.
Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.
- Thread starter CrazyH0rse
- Start date
Wow. You really got me all figured out I guess. You're right I never want to see this game changed or improved in any way.
Ideas Man
Banned
There are a thankfully dwindling core of people who think that inconvenience and frustration = Difficulty and it's the strangest thing.
One thing to keep in mind is that new players have very low investment in the game beyond the cash that they paid for it. When someone makes a stupid mistake and gets curbstomped back to a Sidewinder, many people will look at the cliff that they just climbed and say "No way am I doing that again". Loss of ingame assets like that destroys someone's investment in the game, and therefore makes the decision to drop it entirely much easier.
Hell, I know a guy who lost a Hauler (with insurance) and nearly quit, until I told him to stop being a wimp about it and don't make the same mistake next time.
Anyway. Personally my opinion is that the rebuy cost should be reworded as an excess. If you don't have enough for the excess, you don't lose your ship. Instead, the replacement is impounded until you can pay the excess + the cost of the loaner sidewinder you're given + a penalty rate (maybe double the default excess or something).
Doing so will still inflict pretty good sting on people who don't pay attention, while not destroying all their assets in one go. Having the ship impounded then provides a goal for the person to aim towards instead of feeling that they just have to redo _everything_ they did before.
It's also a bit more realistic. Insurance is paid _before_ the accident (presumably it's bundled into the cost of the ships), excesses are paid _after_ the accident. Failure to pay an excess doesn't result in the insurance company not paying out at all, it usually just results in the repairs being delayed until you are able to pay it (up to a point).
Hell, I know a guy who lost a Hauler (with insurance) and nearly quit, until I told him to stop being a wimp about it and don't make the same mistake next time.
Anyway. Personally my opinion is that the rebuy cost should be reworded as an excess. If you don't have enough for the excess, you don't lose your ship. Instead, the replacement is impounded until you can pay the excess + the cost of the loaner sidewinder you're given + a penalty rate (maybe double the default excess or something).
Doing so will still inflict pretty good sting on people who don't pay attention, while not destroying all their assets in one go. Having the ship impounded then provides a goal for the person to aim towards instead of feeling that they just have to redo _everything_ they did before.
It's also a bit more realistic. Insurance is paid _before_ the accident (presumably it's bundled into the cost of the ships), excesses are paid _after_ the accident. Failure to pay an excess doesn't result in the insurance company not paying out at all, it usually just results in the repairs being delayed until you are able to pay it (up to a point).
You sadist.
See, I can take quotes totally out of context as well. Nice job of completely missing the message.
Gotta agree with that.
Ideas Man
Banned
Maybe explain it then please my brain can't handle your complex prose it seems.
How about keeping the insults out of it?
ED is not a harsh game. You don't risk ANYTHING unless you chose to. Some people chose to run the risk because it creates an Iron Man experience. Some people take the risk because they are greedy and/or impatient. Most people don't fall in these groups and just don't take the risk. It is all good, it is all up to you. But here is the thing: if you remove the possibility to lose it all you take away the ability to chose levels of risk. If you don't want to risk it all there is NOTHING that forces you to risk it all. If you keep adding safety nets you screw over those who like to be on the edge. As for those who dont want to risk it all but do it anyway out of sheer lack of self-control: tough luck. You know when you leave the station whether or not you can pay the insurance. You decide it yourself. So what about dying twice in a row? Pay the insurance twice. You just have to work an hour more to create that safety net for yourself, if you want. You decide how safe you want to play it. And when you create that safety net, and you die twice (and it WILL happen, trust me, at some point!) and you have no money left: DO NOT GET INTO YOUR EXPENSIVE SHIP. One module of your cobra could easily outfit an eagle enough to bounty hunt your insurance back in no-time. tl/dr: currently you decide how much you want to risk yourself. If you hate the idea of losing everything, you can chose to never have that happen. It just takes a little bit more time, patience and self-control. Some of us WANT to run risks, please do not try to take that option from us.
this whole insurance/rebuy/cargo loss as a mechanic is
it is the reason why multiplayer doesnt exist
it chases people out of the game
it is also the reason why this game is so stupendously easy that falling asleep behind the wheel is the biggest threat, make this game hard and suddenly people will realize what a bad mechanic it is .
and last but not least it promotes griefing, since it was never so easy to hurt another player (i kill you, pay my 7.5k fine and u lose 100tons gold and rebuy costs netting 1million? seems very balanced )
but since the majority of people seem to think its a good idea ED will never get out of this singleplayer minded state
where reducing risks is the name of the game, how boring and how un-elite like it may be
adding financial risk doesnt it make it dangerous, on the contrary it only forces people to (easily) avoid these risks making it a rather dull and riskless affair
ED is the least dangerous game i can think of because of it
tell me how dangerous is it having a python in your garage but never fly it (in open) because scratching the paint cost millions?
and then if u are rich enough have a cobra or viper on the side to have 'fun' ,meaning u can afford to lose it (which is still rather hard to do)
it should be called elite 'insured' or elite 'ubersafe'
why do people who like to play 'safe' force everyone else to play 'safe'?
i like dying
i like to push limits
i like to see how much heat my ship can take from a sun
i like to see how fast i can enter a spaceport with flight assist off
i like taking real risks: namely the risk of hurting my ego, the risk of failure
having enough to finance a rebuy isnt even the point since dying more than once will make u go bankrupt regardless
even when u dont have cargo to lose
but it is a lost cause i know that now
it is sad to lose one of my favorite games of all times to this so called 'dangerous'
i cant say it was worth waiting 20 years
it is the reason why multiplayer doesnt exist
it chases people out of the game
it is also the reason why this game is so stupendously easy that falling asleep behind the wheel is the biggest threat, make this game hard and suddenly people will realize what a bad mechanic it is .
and last but not least it promotes griefing, since it was never so easy to hurt another player (i kill you, pay my 7.5k fine and u lose 100tons gold and rebuy costs netting 1million? seems very balanced )
but since the majority of people seem to think its a good idea ED will never get out of this singleplayer minded state
where reducing risks is the name of the game, how boring and how un-elite like it may be
adding financial risk doesnt it make it dangerous, on the contrary it only forces people to (easily) avoid these risks making it a rather dull and riskless affair
ED is the least dangerous game i can think of because of it
tell me how dangerous is it having a python in your garage but never fly it (in open) because scratching the paint cost millions?
and then if u are rich enough have a cobra or viper on the side to have 'fun' ,meaning u can afford to lose it (which is still rather hard to do)
it should be called elite 'insured' or elite 'ubersafe'
why do people who like to play 'safe' force everyone else to play 'safe'?
i like dying
i like to push limits
i like to see how much heat my ship can take from a sun
i like to see how fast i can enter a spaceport with flight assist off
i like taking real risks: namely the risk of hurting my ego, the risk of failure
having enough to finance a rebuy isnt even the point since dying more than once will make u go bankrupt regardless
even when u dont have cargo to lose
but it is a lost cause i know that now
it is sad to lose one of my favorite games of all times to this so called 'dangerous'
i cant say it was worth waiting 20 years
Ideas Man
Banned
Games with consequences that leave the player with zero options (whether self inflicted or not) = No fun for the player = Less players = No money to the devs = No more game for you.
I've seen it happen time and time again with other games (Wildstar being the current best example) where all the HARDCORE crowd who delighted in the soul crushing difficulty are left with a deserted game, wondering why the dev company is looking like it may just go under and hey, no more game for them!
I did not weigh in either way on insurance. I mearly stated what I believe are the real reasons that people leave the game. Is that simple enough?
If the "hardcore" is taken to extreme, yes, which ED doesn't do though - not even close.
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Ideas Man
Banned
In general you are right I feel, but in this one instance they seem to, which is odd, I think a simple tweak here or there and it could be fixed, it's not a massive thing, just needs a touch more balance in my eyes.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Sorry, my misunderstanding I guess, can we be space pals?
Sure, have some rep.
So you think ED is too easy, whereas you like it hard, but because you go bankrupt regardless it hasn;t been worth waiting for.
I am not quite sure what your point is, but I suspect you lost your train of thought somewhere.
The insurance mechanic is neither difficult or frustrating, unless you took a short bus to school. Mean I know, but come on, personal responsibility and all that.
Ideas Man
Banned
You too man, you too
Honestly, this all just takes me back to thinking about the difference between gaming back in the 80's, when it was REALLY HARD! You lost your lives in Ghosts and Goblins, and even if you were at the last boss, you had to start again.
A more recent "difficult" game, say, Halo, set to the highest difficulty, is also very hard, however, if you day, you merely go back tot he nearest spawn point (as often as you like) and if there is a second payer, you spawn in the thick of the action you just died in, effectively limitless reinforcements.
Harden up, I say. Very sick of everything being sugar coated, kids getting awards for simply turning up, getting your back patted and a cash injection because you were too silly to have enough cash for the insurance on your ship...
It's not that hard. Perhaps treat the difficulty as a form of evolution, a culling of the bad genes, if you will. Perhaps E: D will be better for it in the long term, less whinging, whining and complaining, more people who want to enjoy the game in a way that actually presents a bit of a challenge, and makes you weight up the consequences of your actions.
Z...
A more recent "difficult" game, say, Halo, set to the highest difficulty, is also very hard, however, if you day, you merely go back tot he nearest spawn point (as often as you like) and if there is a second payer, you spawn in the thick of the action you just died in, effectively limitless reinforcements.
Harden up, I say. Very sick of everything being sugar coated, kids getting awards for simply turning up, getting your back patted and a cash injection because you were too silly to have enough cash for the insurance on your ship...
It's not that hard. Perhaps treat the difficulty as a form of evolution, a culling of the bad genes, if you will. Perhaps E: D will be better for it in the long term, less whinging, whining and complaining, more people who want to enjoy the game in a way that actually presents a bit of a challenge, and makes you weight up the consequences of your actions.
Z...
To all the new comers to this thread: This game was designed by the Dev's and the Backers et' al.. Those of us who have plunked down our $60.00 to play shouldn't feel like you need to improve the game. Things will improve, but it should stay with the vision with which inspired it. The penalty for dying is an integral part of the games philosophy. As far as I know, FD only expects the players out there that accept that, and enjoy that to be customers. Coming in and trying to coerce the Dev's into making the game like all the other games out there is a mistake. They expect and desire to be different and to make Elite what it should be.
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Adapt and overcome. If that's too mush for you, there is a world of games out there for you to enjoy.
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Adapt and overcome. If that's too mush for you, there is a world of games out there for you to enjoy.
Unless someone's shot down in pvp or squished by buggy code they can blame only themselves alone.