Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.

[Tempered]

I would be disappointed philosophically speaking, but it would roll right off my back. I am desperate for FD not to fall into the "Balance for PvP" trap.

I think that FD doomed themselves to that course when they decided to go multiplayer. You can already see signs of it in the game. The one that sticks out the most to me is when they changed how FA off and boost worked together.

 

[Mohrgan]

It can get really confusing on here, we are constantly told the game isn't finished and that things will change but at the same time we are told "The game came as it is. You knew what you were getting into. The Galaxy Doesn't Care, nor should FD." I personally hope that the former is true and that the game can and will change as more opinions and feedback is given rather than stubbornly stick to its guns and potentially suffer for it.

Changes can come, but we a discussing what I, and many other consider a core mechanic. That's why. While the Dev's talk about adding content, you talk about changing the character of the game. I want FD to consider how a Galaxy should work, not how to please segments of it's population. Does that make sense?

 

[beefeater605]

I was rolling the dice while grinding from one ship to another all the while spending my entire bank roll on extra cargo the entire time. Then it happened... A million and a half or so in cargo loaded in my kitted Type-7, While aligning to exit the space station I didn't notice that my landing gear was up and the rest undid it's self. Trying to bank to the right I fired my lasers witch are usually disabled and instantly has 2 crimes committed in my name. I'm now being fired upon inside the space sort and I am now trespassing. Barely made it out of the port w/ 12% hull integrity and my precious cargo that I foolishly spent my ENTIRE bankroll on only to have the outside defense turrets finish me off while I'm boosting away.

I could tell you how I felt watching my nightmare manifest into reality but the reality is that I didn't wait long to start it all over again. Back to the sidewinder w/ 6k to my name and 150ly's away from where I would call home. All because to me the game is actually that much fun.

 

[Ideas Man]

Changes can come, but we a discussing what I, and many other consider a core mechanic. That's why. While the Dev's talk about adding content, you talk about changing the character of the game. I want FD to consider how a Galaxy should work, not how to please segments of it's population. Does that make sense?

It does make sense yes, thanks.
I guess having differing views on stuff just makes things more interesting really, I see it as a small game mechanic that is rough around the edges really, nothing more, certainly not the end of the known universe or anything.

 

[Mohrgan]

No. I was a backer. I paid in before Braben had decided entirely what the game was going to be. I was incensed when he announced that he was going to reduce it to one more airplanes-in-space no-newton junk game to cater to people who couldn't think in three dimensions. I didn't expect this garbage either and never found out about it until the beta. I've managed to overcome that, because having such a huge galaxy, being so beautiful, and offering so many things to do raise it to a mediocre game after all, but I want it to be better.

You're one to talk about assumptions and bile, bilge rat.

Then you certainly knew what you were getting into. Bilge Rat. Laughable. I have no sympathy for you. I can't let you annoy me because you feel sorry for yourself. Let's us two just stay on topic. Excuse mt for the Bile comment. It was only going to lead to more insults.

 

[Sc00py]

Changes can come, but we a discussing what I, and many other consider a core mechanic. That's why. While the Dev's talk about adding content, you talk about changing the character of the game. I want FD to consider how a Galaxy should work, not how to please segments of it's population. Does that make sense?

but what if people disagree with you ? that u think FD is doing it right does not mean you are right?
what you perceive as 'the character of the game' might to others seem a huge flaw

 

[Mohrgan]

It does make sense yes, thanks.
I guess having differing views on stuff just makes things more interesting really, I see it as a small game mechanic that is rough around the edges really, nothing more, certainly not the end of the known universe or anything.

Yeah, but the decision to the way they did, didn't happen in a vacuum. Nor in the dark. I am totally new to the Elite franchise. When I read the main page on E: D's website, I didn't just hit the buy button. I researched what I was getting into. I made that decision based on the whole picture. It's out there. Joining a game, and then making a fuss to alter it's philosophy is not going to please anyone.

That's why I call on FD to ignore this kind of squabbling, and focus on how the Galaxy should work, from the Philosophy already established. Making concessions to any faction on the forums, or otherwise would spoil the game, and drag into the world of games that are all over the place. This is set apart to be different from all the rest, that's what I am hoping for.

 

[Lovecraft]

It does make sense yes, thanks.
I guess having differing views on stuff just makes things more interesting really, I see it as a small game mechanic that is rough around the edges really, nothing more, certainly not the end of the known universe or anything.

This game would be too benign for me if there were no real consequences for mistakes, like insurance and rebuy. It can add some spice to menial tasks like mining and trading, having to consider what the chances of a hostile encounter might be, and whether it's worth the risk you're taking. I understand players feeling despondent when they lose everything, but you have a system to prevent this: insurance. Players need to use it, it's as simple as that.

 

[Zeeman]

That's great, I'm glad you make so much more money than I do, both in real life and here. The problem is that rares runs are exactly that: "rare". I only know where to come up with like 2 of them, and it takes a hella long time to get far enough away to finish the run. Now I could use those online cheat-sites to find every last rare... but then the game would go from way too hard, to far too easy even for me.

As for bounty hunting and exploration, that's exactly what I do. I would HAVE to add constant rares runs to it in order to turn over the figures you do... and I'd have to cheat by finding the locations of all the rares online in order to do that. And that would just plain wreck the game for me, even worse than the re-buy system (though in the other direction.)

Who ever said anything about earning more cash than you in real life? I don't earn that much, I just work hard.

As for rares, I found a few on my own, mainly due to luck with clusters and being at the right place when exploring. In the end, I did end up looking for more - which I found on this site. Partly because running back and forth between a few systems was getting old, and partly because I enjoy mixing it up, so I decided to plot a "path" that leads me from rare to rare to rare, maximising profits, but also maximising exploration. I also explore a few nearby systems at most rares sites, just in case I find another.

If you find using external ways to find such sites is not in the spirit in which you like to play, that's fine, play as you like, but, perhaps you shouldn't be posting snarky jabs at others because of your self imposed limitations...

I see finding rares routes on this forum as perfectly acceptable, as, out in the real world, there are plenty of ways to get real information about where one would find, perhaps a rare beer, a special wine, a certain type of grub - all things that are rare and only found in certain locations.

I mean, for heavens sake, if I can Google "world's best beer" or "rarest scotch whiskey", or get online and ask on a diving forum where I can find a "Megalodon tooth" in 2015, I suspect it would be possible in 3300, too...

Nothing stopping you from discovering stuff for yourself though, but as I said, it's your play style, and your limitations on yourself, don't impose that on everyone - the game has it's rules, and they shouldn't be always tailored to the weakest link in any given style of play, or we'll just end up with another fairy floss wrapped lolly...

Z...

 

[Tempered]

I've lost it, sure, but single player games have this mechanic called "saving your game" that tends to prevent that if you remember to hit F6 every now and then. I suppose some people actually might not know that... anyway, ED doesn't really have that. Can't, since it's multi-player...



It is NOT a good compromise for the entire fan base. It's exactly what one fanatical segment of the fan base wants. A good compromise for the entire fanbase would be TWO servers, one like it is now, and one for those of us who come here to play a game.

Sir, you are so fired up and combative that you can't even be bothered to read before attacking someone. Where exactly did I suggest a particular compromise that you are so adamantly against? I think I'll just ignore you from now on.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Right now, I imagine the Anaconda-Python balance is roughly the same; use the Anaconda to explore or trade, more of a multi-purpose, and use the Python strictly for combat. They intend to nerf it though
Frigging annoying. I look forward to trying out Star Citizen.

The python is not strictly a combat ship. It hasn't been since 1984. Neither is the conda. It hasn't been in neither the games nor the novels. You are complaining a popsicle is not a lasagna. I agree it is frigging annoying at times, but complaining about it is... silly.

Enjoy Star Citizen though.

 

[Mohrgan]

but what if people disagree with you ? that u think FD is doing it right does not mean you are right?
what you perceive as 'the character of the game' might to others seem a huge flaw

That goes both ways. I am flexible, and I think that shows by how I play, and how I post. I am and continue to adapt to the game, I don;t expect a game to adapt to me. That's what Sit-Coms and all the rest of the gaming world is for. I am applauding FD for their philosophy, and I intend to defend it. Up to a point. I can and do expect changes, but not pandering.

 

[Ideas Man]

Yeah, but the decision to the way they did, didn't happen in a vacuum. Nor in the dark. I am totally new to the Elite franchise. When I read the main page on E: D's website, I didn't just hit the buy button. I researched what I was getting into. I made that decision based on the whole picture. It's out there. Joining a game, and then making a fuss to alter it's philosophy is not going to please anyone.

That's why I call on FD to ignore this kind of squabbling, and focus on how the Galaxy should work, from the Philosophy already established. Making concessions to any faction on the forums, or otherwise would spoil the game, and drag into the world of games that are all over the place. This is set apart to be different from all the rest, that's what I am hoping for.

Fair enough, I for sure see it all as a pretty low priority thing as well but I do think it'll get tweaked at some point, of course that's just guesswork.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This game would be too benign for me if there were no real consequences for mistakes, like insurance and rebuy. It can add some spice to menial tasks like mining and trading, having to consider what the chances of a hostile encounter might be, and whether it's worth the risk you're taking. I understand players feeling despondent when they lose everything, but you have a system to prevent this: insurance. Players need to use it, it's as simple as that.

Then simply make the mechanic more transparent, you work on the assumption that no one reads anything and go from there with stuff like this have a 'This ship costs 2000000 Credits to buy back if destroyed' pop up when buying a ship.

That would be my quick and dirty fix although my actual fix would be more in depth.

 

[daan2002]

The python is not strictly a combat ship. It hasn't been since 1984. Neither is the conda. It hasn't been in neither the games nor the novels. You are complaining a popsicle is not a lasagna. I agree it is frigging annoying at times, but complaining about it is... silly.

Enjoy Star Citizen though.

something tell me he dont know that game not going to hold his hand also

 

[QziQza]

The first time someone makes this mistake, i can sympathise. while it may be a hard lesson to learn, it shouldnt be a mistake you make twice. my approach to life in general is..

"never blame others for, nor expect them to encourage or reward, ignorance, stupidity or carelessness. always take responsibility for your own actions, while never taking credit for someone elses"

..always felt that was good advice growing up.

 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Changes can come, but we a discussing what I, and many other consider a core mechanic. That's why. While the Dev's talk about adding content, you talk about changing the character of the game. I want FD to consider how a Galaxy should work, not how to please segments of it's population. Does that make sense?

I think that the vast majority of people would agree that if you get killed you are punished and if you are killed without having the rebuy you are heavily punished - that is a core game mechanic.

However if you are discussing players being dumped back to square 1 for a single instance of being killed without insurance I think it is a far smaller proportion of players who would class that as a fundamental component of the game. I would class a core mechanic as one where if it was changed it could directly affect other user's enjoyment of the game. Slightly easing the current death penalties would not do this.

I'm a bit torn on this. Once you are aware of the insurance system it is utterly straightforward to avoid going bust. Simply always make sure that you have the rebuy. If you go below the rebuy downgrade your ship and work your way back up again. If you don't want to have to downgrade, make sure that you don't upgrade until you have significant cash reserves and if these start getting depleted move away from high risk activities (fighting, carrying high value cargo) and build them up with some lower risk trading. All it requires is a tiny bit of discipline and patience. I have no sympathy for people who are aware of how punitive the system is but still don't exercise this basic discipline.

However at the same time we have to be realistic about human nature. People will always take risks and believe that they can beat the odds. People get lazy. People play when they come home from the pub after one too many beers. And I agree that a grown up game should punish them for this. However the current severity of punishment is such that when it happens all but the most dedicated of players will just quit and move on to another game. I would suggest that Elite is already a fairly niche product at present. Given the size of the play area it is really important if we want long term player interaction that people are not unnecessarily driven away. The point has been made earlier but is worth repeating. Experienced and more mature players do not need the younger, more casual gamers in order to enjoy the game and so in the short term if people go it makes no difference to you. But I feel pretty confident in stating that in order to continue improving and supporting the game FD are going to need enough casual players to make things financially viable. If the game is made overly punitive to these players and they leave potentially we could be left with no game at all (or at least a game that has fallen far short of the potential that it currently has if the developers can continue working on it).

 

[Ideas Man]

I think that the vast majority of people would agree that if you get killed you are punished and if you are killed without having the rebuy you are heavily punished - that is a core game mechanic.

However if you are discussing players being dumped back to square 1 for a single instance of being killed without insurance I think it is a far smaller proportion of players who would class that as a fundamental component of the game. I would class a core mechanic as one where if it was changed it could directly affect other user's enjoyment of the game. Slightly easing the current death penalties would not do this.

I'm a bit torn on this. Once you are aware of the insurance system it is utterly straightforward to avoid going bust. Simply always make sure that you have the rebuy. If you go below the rebuy downgrade your ship and work your way back up again. If you don't want to have to downgrade, make sure that you don't upgrade until you have significant cash reserves and if these start getting depleted move away from high risk activities (fighting, carrying high value cargo) and build them up with some lower risk trading. All it requires is a tiny bit of discipline and patience. I have no sympathy for people who are aware of how punitive the system is but still don't exercise this basic discipline.

However at the same time we have to be realistic about human nature. People will always take risks and believe that they can beat the odds. People get lazy. People play when they come home from the pub . And I agree that a grown up game should punish them for this. However the current severity of punishment is such that when it happens all but the most dedicated of players will just quit and move on to another game. I would suggest that Elite is already a fairly niche product at present. Given the size of the play area it is really important if we want long term player interaction that people are not unnecessarily driven away. The point has been made earlier but is worth repeating. Experienced and more mature players do not need the younger, more casual gamers in order to enjoy the game and so in the short term if people go it makes no difference to you. But I feel pretty confident in stating that in order to continue improving and supporting the game FD are going to need enough casual players to make things financially viable. If the game is made overly punitive to these players and they leave potentially we could be left with no game at all (or at least a game that has fallen far short of the potential that it currently has if the developers can continue working on it).

I just repped your post so hard I broke my mouse, and my pelvis

 

[Ian Skippy]

The Eagle and Sidewinder are junk to begin with. We've had one person on here already say that he gets in his Eagle whenever he wants to go take risks. If I ever go PvP, I'll probably do the same thing.

So you think it is junk, but you'll bring it to pvp? Fair enough. Good luck, I'll see you around someday in my dumbed down Viper.

 

[Sc00py]

surely this has been mentioned but why cant someone just sell parts till he meets the rebuy cost?
and secondly why can u take a 200k loan on a 44k eagle (which is like 20 times the rebuy cost?) and still a 200k loan on a 6million asp (which is not even 1/4 of the rebuy of an asp?) doesnt seem logical

sorry if i didnt get the numbers right but tis late etc

 

[Lovecraft]

Then simply make the mechanic more transparent, you work on the assumption that no one reads anything and go from there with stuff like this have a 'This ship costs 2000000 Credits to buy back if destroyed' pop up when buying a ship.

That would be my quick and dirty fix although my actual fix would be more in depth.

Totally agree. More transparency (pop up/listing prior to purchase would be great) seems like a great place to resolve some of the issues. Keep the mechanic itself but make it's function and cost more observable prior to the player making any big decisions (buying a ship they can't afford to insure/leaving dock without insurance), and have the ramifications for dying without insurance clearly spelled out.