Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[metzger]

Frankly, I care very little about some piece of gear in a fantasy universe having its stats updated to some new—and in all likelihood ephemeral—configuration, but this... this is probably the most sensible, and indeed essential, post I have ever seen on this forum. Of all the internet's flaws, this notion that seems to have arisen that all opinions are equal is one of the truly infuriating ones.

It's why we constantly get expert testimony dismissed with a wave of the "Appeal to Authority" wand; people stating as fact the reasons for professionals doing (or not doing) this or that as greed/avarice/laziness/stupidity; people with no relevant qualifications or background thinking they can disprove a consensus amongst experts using dimly recalled lessons from early high-school. There's a reason it's called authority.

So carry on expressing your opinions, people, but for the love of the Wee Man, next time you're telling FD that they're Doing It Wrong, at least pause to consider whether the situation might not be a little more complex than you realise.

</rant>

Unconditional belief in the infallibility of the 'authority' sounds like a very naive outlook. No one is questioning the developer's ability to produce video games, but for Peet's sake, get real.

 

[IceyJones]

This is not the case and i bet it won't be after the update. Not lost to a single small class ship yet in my Python or to 2-3 of them either to be honest and i bet i won't after the nerfs especially if they have lost their DF capabilities.

sure...you can always run away by just jumping out in the python......until they bring an asp with them. or only an asp.....the python will be toast in future! with nearly 20% turn rate change, it stands no chance against the ASP......it will just keep drifting around the python and grin....

and it will be slower than the ASP also!

but i dont want to have to only RUN AWAY against a viper, because i cannot shoot it anymore....damn....i bought a 130 million viper atm! just to read 5 days after, that i will have bought a 130 million T7

 

[SuBSynk]

sure...you can always run away by just jumping out in the python......until they bring an asp with them. or only an asp.....the python will be toast in future! with nearly 20% turn rate change, it stands no chance against the ASP......it will just keep drifting around the python and grin....

and it will be slower than the ASP also!

but i dont want to have to only RUN AWAY against a viper, because i cannot shoot it anymore....damn....i bought a 130 million viper atm! just to read 5 days after, that i will have bought a 130 million T7

Flight assist off negates the issues of turning rates, nothing can just drift around and avoid a ship turning in FA off entirely.

 

[metzger]

Flight assist off negates the issues of turning rates, nothing can just drift around and avoid a ship turning in FA off entirely.

So I have to have the skill of Han Solo on speed for the ship to become relevant?

 

[Derath]

The shield cell nerf will indeed lower vipers abilities as well but realistically I feel like shield cells skewed pvp and pve so much its impossible to see how well a ship would truly perform without them. Without cells 2 vipers wouldn't struggle to take a current python down as long as they coordinated somewhat but with cells if you set shield to 4 pips on the python it would be impossible lol.

 

[IceyJones]

Flight assist off negates the issues of turning rates, nothing can just drift around and avoid a ship turning in FA off entirely.

a skilled pilot can counter that easily. just "ride" the target.....

 

[TheEponymousBob]

Unconditional belief in the infallibility of the 'authority' sounds like a very naive outlook. No one is questioning the developer's ability to produce video games, but for Peet's sake, get real.

Who said anything at all about "Unconditional belief in [...] infallibility"?

 

[IceyJones]

The shield cell nerf will indeed lower vipers abilities as well but realistically I feel like shield cells skewed pvp and pve so much its impossible to see how well a ship would truly perform without them. Without cells 2 vipers wouldn't struggle to take a current python down as long as they coordinated somewhat but with cells if you set shield to 4 pips on the python it would be impossible lol.

thats true......with the python nerfes + cell nerfes, two 3.5 million ships will crush the 220 million ship if it does not run away......well....the 220 million are really worth the buy then

 

[remosito]

it stands no chance against the ASP......

if you are standing no chance in your tricked out Python to a single Asp then you are doing something rather wrong.

sounds to me a higher skilled player in a lower priced ship beats a lower skilled player in a expensive ship.

I hope FD ain't gonna change that aspect!

 

[Starender]

Flight assist off negates the issues of turning rates, nothing can just drift around and avoid a ship turning in FA off entirely.

they said the exact same thing when the viper got hardcore nerfed, "don't worry you will only need more skill now to be good", the problem is that some other ships doesn't need any skill to perform just as good as it, like the Cobra, and can do a lot of other things, and if they have your skills then the chance to win will be lower than before.

i can't wait for a Cobra nerf

 

[Ozrix]

Who said anything at all about "Unconditional belief in [...] infallibility"?

Here ya go, Bob.

...thinking they can disprove a consensus amongst experts using dimly recalled lessons from early high-school. There's a reason it's called authority.

 

[remosito]

thats true......with the python nerfes + cell nerfes, two 3.5 million ships will crush the 220 million ship if it does not run away......well....the 220 million are really worth the buy then

here we have the crux of the matter on one single line.

you want your "Iwin button steamroll everything including multiple oponents" ship. FD does not.

shelling out a truckton of money should not grant you immunity from well coordinated attacks by more than one oponent.


btw, interesting you left out the dumbfire missile nerf from your list.....

 

[andrak]

So I have to have the skill of Han Solo on speed for the ship to become relevant?

Exactly my point above. The fact that you've paid 40 times the price for your ship than they have (Python compared to Viper) has to count for something. The ship should make up in part for the lesser skill of the pilot otherwise what is the point. The combat endgame just sits with a fully upgraded Viper in that case.

 

[Derath]

here we have the crux of the matter on one single line.

you want your "Iwin button steamroll everything including multiple oponents" ship. FD does not.

shelling out a truckton of money should not grant you immunity from well coordinated attacks by more than one oponent.


btw, interesting you left out the dumbfire missile nerf from your list.....

Ship cost meaning something doesn't mean the same as immunity to damage, it already can't sustain a well coordinated attack by more than one opponent if they actually brought the right weapons instead of 8x Gimball MCs

 

[metzger]

Who said anything at all about "Unconditional belief in [...] infallibility"?

You have tremendous faith in the ability of the so-called experts, and that's your business if you do.

 

[remosito]

Exactly my point above. The fact that you've paid 40 times the price for your ship than they have (Python compared to Viper) has to count for something. The ship should make up in part for the lesser skill of the pilot otherwise what is the point. The combat endgame just sits with a fully upgraded Viper in that case.

no Iwin buttons for crappy players!

and the combat endgame crown should belong to a combat ship. And not a pricey multipurpose armed freighter ship.

obviously currently there is a lack of next-up pure fighter from viper. But it will come.

 

[IceyJones]

here we have the crux of the matter on one single line.

you want your "Iwin button steamroll everything including multiple oponents" ship. FD does not.

shelling out a truckton of money should not grant you immunity from well coordinated attacks by more than one oponent.


btw, interesting you left out the dumbfire missile nerf from your list.....

i dont want an i win button ship......but 2 vipers are MUCH too less effort that should be required to take on a python!
3-4, yes.....that seems fair to mee, even the money involved is still crazily against the python, but 2 vipers?!?

 

[remosito]

Ship cost meaning something doesn't mean the same as immunity to damage, it already can't sustain a well coordinated attack by more than one opponent if they actually brought the right weapons instead of 8x Gimball MCs

what weapons would that be?

and I stand by my point. Money should not buy you ownage of mutliple oponents. if they are well coordinated. Don't wanna loose to multiple oponents. bring friends! Simple.

 

[Starender]

The combat endgame just sits with a fully upgraded Viper in that case.

i agreed with your post but do not forget that the shieldcell bank nerf will hardly decrease the Viper PvP viability.

therefor, the undisputed king of PvP will become the Cobra

 

[remosito]

i dont want an i win button ship......but 2 vipers are MUCH too less effort that should be required to take on a python!
3-4, yes.....that seems fair to mee, even the money involved is still crazily against the python, but 2 vipers?!?

yes. two kitted out vipers by two good pilots that are well coordinated should eat a python.

Skill and coordination > money

And with the dumbfire missile nerf. It will take considerably more skill by them viper pilots.