I play in open with a group usually flying solo.
- Status
Very good points! Though I can't think of cases at the spatial level where an individual system can be affected by an individual player in a permanent manner. (The economics simulations are limited to a few thousand systems with perhaps ten thousand markets? Much more managable.) The stars exist on the map; you can travel to them. They need an entry in the database. Now, they may be doing some sort of weird DB chicanery shenanigans where the galaxy is separated into tables, and whole swaths of the galaxy are in these tables that don't need to be loaded into memory. The stars will still each need a unique 32-bit integer key, but maybe the tables are only loaded as needed? The "core" systems with the inhabited systems would be loaded all the time, while the rest of the galaxy is split into N tables and loaded as lonely little Asps go from system to system.
Interesting; I'll have to look into this to see if modern databases can do this! If so it would dramatically reduce the hardware requirements.
ETA: In fact, now that I think about it, the star catalog table itself -- clocking in at probably something over 128GB -- probably just lists the individual stars and a pointer to what table that star is in. The tables with the system data may have actually been separated into geometric sectors, maybe even the Core Sector Blah BlahBlah-Blah BlahBlahBlah terminology we see. Or if they're leaning towards inefficiency, each star is its own table. (Man, can you imagine how things would be if the galaxy used a radial or polar coordinate system instead of Cartesian? Horrifying and stupidly processor-intensive, bit damn, that would be cool!)
ETA2: Their dev/test databases likely only have tables for the core inhabited regions, and the rest of the catalog have null pointers and there's probably a test that throws a 'You cannot go there' error if someone tries to jump to one of the UNDEF stars.
Last edited:
Actually i'm not talking about fun.
I'm playing solo.. for the reason that i don't do the things i described.
People shouldn't have to suffer to my RL problems and my bad attitude if i'm in a bad mood or drunk.
And still, if i'm forced to dive into the crowd, i'd do it excessively... just to show how bad of a move that is.
FTPAIL League!
(Freedom To Play As I Like)
I am programmer, various databases can do all sorts of things, but I don't think they need to be doing any revolutionary juggling behind the scenes for this; and I don't think the stars need to exist simultaneously for the galaxy map either. I've only zoomed that far out on the map once or twice, and it has been a while, but I don't think I was able to ever see "every star" at once. At a certain zoom level, they just kind of become clouds. As you zoom in, the first layer of procedural can kick in to show the stars within your field of view. The only time systems should ever need permanent identifiers is when changes not due to PG need preserved; such as: "hand crafted" content and any sort of permanence allowed to be generated by players. Even then, only the changes would need stored. Differences from PG don't even need stored. For things like planet X orbiting it's star at a certain rate, the PG just needs to generate the "time=0" version and update for current time.
Last edited:
Ya, know I really don’t know what to say at this point, except player driven content is over rated.
There was a time in EvE where a very large Player based organization, drove over 80K “Suscribed PVE’ers”, “on the Eve servers”, to abandon the game completely. Emergent game play they celebrated. Yes CCP allowed this organization to run off a fair portion of there business. Lets see 80,000 Players X $9.99, Hmm equals about $800,000 Dollars per month in just subscription fees. What online gaming company in their right mind would allow such a thing?
You can almost always be certain on one single thing. If left to their own devices they will ruin any game and turn it into a complete mess.
It is my belief that online gaming company’s need to keep a tight rein on their cliental, and make sure in no uncertain terms who is in charge.
I’m not anti PVP, I full well believe PVP has a very large place in the Elite Universe. I like quality PVP, that’s all I did in EvE. But there is more to this game than just PVP. I’m sure Elite isn’t even considering cutting down on PVP. But I think there push is to per mote a higher quality PVP, and not just donkeys running around hitting every easy target they see. Elite wants to encourage meaningful PVP. Virtually every PVP encounter I have ever had, the ones that had me laughing out loud, were when the fights were very evenly matched. This is a personal fact.
You know there are a lot of other things to do in a game like this than just blow everything up. Exploring, Elite has made a commitment to the adventure in space flight. I’m looking forward to heading out into the universe, finding a lost race of aliens. Etc.
Frankly after 10 years of Eve, I’m a little burned out of the garden variety a__hole. I find them pretty boring. I actually find pretty much all player driven content pretty much the same thing, over and over again. Everyone trying to kill everyone, that’s what it pretty much always boils down to, every single time.
Personally, I would much rather see the Frontier people focus on getting us into those stations, onto those planets, and making that surprise alien race for us to discover. I’d like to see some really cool new ships. I wish they would spend most of their time working on that stuff. Rather than changing something that is working really good like the switching mechanic.
But don’t let me stop you, please continue on same people, repeating the same thing over and over again.
There was a time in EvE where a very large Player based organization, drove over 80K “Suscribed PVE’ers”, “on the Eve servers”, to abandon the game completely. Emergent game play they celebrated. Yes CCP allowed this organization to run off a fair portion of there business. Lets see 80,000 Players X $9.99, Hmm equals about $800,000 Dollars per month in just subscription fees. What online gaming company in their right mind would allow such a thing?
You can almost always be certain on one single thing. If left to their own devices they will ruin any game and turn it into a complete mess.
It is my belief that online gaming company’s need to keep a tight rein on their cliental, and make sure in no uncertain terms who is in charge.
I’m not anti PVP, I full well believe PVP has a very large place in the Elite Universe. I like quality PVP, that’s all I did in EvE. But there is more to this game than just PVP. I’m sure Elite isn’t even considering cutting down on PVP. But I think there push is to per mote a higher quality PVP, and not just donkeys running around hitting every easy target they see. Elite wants to encourage meaningful PVP. Virtually every PVP encounter I have ever had, the ones that had me laughing out loud, were when the fights were very evenly matched. This is a personal fact.
You know there are a lot of other things to do in a game like this than just blow everything up. Exploring, Elite has made a commitment to the adventure in space flight. I’m looking forward to heading out into the universe, finding a lost race of aliens. Etc.
Frankly after 10 years of Eve, I’m a little burned out of the garden variety a__hole. I find them pretty boring. I actually find pretty much all player driven content pretty much the same thing, over and over again. Everyone trying to kill everyone, that’s what it pretty much always boils down to, every single time.
Personally, I would much rather see the Frontier people focus on getting us into those stations, onto those planets, and making that surprise alien race for us to discover. I’d like to see some really cool new ships. I wish they would spend most of their time working on that stuff. Rather than changing something that is working really good like the switching mechanic.
But don’t let me stop you, please continue on same people, repeating the same thing over and over again.
Last edited:
I've been in a thread where a few people "suggested" removal of solo would solve all of opens problems.
And I'm not sure but I think it came up in this one within the first 25 pages (or the left over chat from the older thread spilled in a bit).
there were different proposals:
- solo has to go
- different chars for different modes
- solo players have to get less per trade than open
but in essence: "just bring them in front of my guns... all of them".
See, I don't get why anyone who wants mayhem in an MMO and/or lots of targets, would play anything other than Planetside 2.
Some of the battles are crazy and they have lots to shoot at in real time, none of this matchmaking P2P setup, plus they have tanks.... tanks are always cool (and it is free to play).
Why try (and fail) to turn this in to space PS2 ? Just go grab a Reaver and rocket pod some troopers who were too tight to get vehicle certs (or run them over in a big tank - nothing like picking bits of troopers out of the tread).
i don't know..
i just respond because you quoted me
but nonetheless... IF this would be turned into an open all carnage, i'll do my best to change it back
I wanted to show you not everyone thinks it would be a bad thing to do. I don't want to force anyone into pvp, i would like pve and pvp completely separated like in any other massively played game. Makes no sense to me thats a bunch of invincible and invisible dudes can come to my system in solo or group coop and start changing things and i can't do a damn thing, makes the faction game unplayable and useless.
Some people want to watch the world burn, others want to defend the world from these people. Others want to go about their normal lives knowing that the guy next to them could snap or be a spy or whatever and try to kill them. It's a roleplaying thing, rp has died years ago in online roleplaying games. My first open world free for all pvp was Acheron's Call in 2000, reason i went to the pvp server was for the excitement, the paranoia, the friends you make in such en environment and the things you do that suddenly have a meaning or an importance to them. Im a loner, i enjoy being on the outskirt of things and rarely do i provoke others first unless we are both in warring Guilds.
and where is the problem with solo players?
As an unrepentant PvPer, I like having Solo around. It helps out. People who aren't a good "fit" for the Open play style can be directed towards Solo, where they can have fun.
It's great, because now Frontier doesn't have to worry so much about putting tons of artifical limits and controls on PvP in Open, in order to keep the PvP averse crowd happy. Frontier can just let things evolve naturally, all while nudging those unsuitable for Open PvP play off to Solo.
People demanding that EVERYONE be forced to Open regardless just want targets, and that's silly. I'd much rather have an active player who has a clue and is trying to combat me, over a clueless PvEer to just blow up and laugh at.
You mean like the most popular MMO, World of Warcraft?
PvE and PvP are not separated at all on roughly 60% of the servers on WoW. It's consensual, self-flagging PvP on PvE/RP servers.
World of Warcraft is the proverbial Elephant in the Room, for everyone here who thinks a MMO can't be popular if it offers this kind of mode switching between PvE and PvP.
Honestly, which ever faction "controls" the system has very little value to the game, short of product ban lists. So, no, it's not going to be revolved around trading space. While fighting to flip a particular system via mission interdicts and combat zones might introduce pvp of a sort, it's far from guaranteed. On the mission interdict side, how are you to even know what that other player is doing? Obviously if the person is mission running, they have little interest in pvp (at that moment).
Btw, mindless pew-pew is someone in a fighter going after someone in a transport just to blow them up, and that's far from "true" pvp.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply! I'm mostly only familiar with databases from a sysadmin POV, so any insight into the deeper workings of this sort of thing is always great to know. =)
That's a great example, PvP lose all it's sense when you have it self flagging, you only see/have the bad that comes with it and lose the rp part which is essential if you don't want it to be a trivial unnecessary part of the game. It becomes nothing more than arena matches or duel which have nothing to do with PvP at all. That example of yours just explained to me why a lot of people have such a terrible opinion of PvP. PvP is always consensual btw, if you dont even understand that fact i can't help you.
- Status