Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Bomba Luigi]

To speak for myself, I just don't like the destrictive approach some want this Game to do. Does PvP need improvments? Of course, about every aspect of the Game is lacking and they are working on it. But the idea to improve PvP by making non PvP content worse or removing Features that are not PvP exclusive is such a destructive Idea.

Make PvP better by making more/better PvP content. I'm all for a creative approach when it comes to games and it would be very sad to see this beautiful shared Galaxy getting ripped appart and People being seperated. Going at i with a destructiv mind will only lead to disaster, for every Game Mode an player.
At least thats what I believe, maybe I'm too romantic.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Apologies if it seemed a bit pedantic but I was interested to know how (if) there was a significant proportion of players asking for Solo to be removed.

There's no real way to know, but my guess would be very, very few. People change their spots all the time, and that's a good thing, that's what discussion and debate is all about. It's only a vocal minority who are making these odd demands, and then slipping them into other threads from time to time, as if the whole thing burns them. And then there's aggressive, libelling me, popping in on a regular basis to see if I can add some reason to the mix and always there to remind people that it's not just about the PKing...

As Dr R so eloquently put it, not everyone in Open is a demanding <insert whatever here> and this thread proves is as time and time again people come in out of the blue and say so!! I think of few chatting out the issues amongst ourselves is quite valuable. What was happening was that people were avoiding the conversation by opening up new threads, hence the mods dumped us all in here to slowly burn ourselves cold.

However, when we go down the road of generalising, namecalling and general bullying, I despair that reason has flown the next like a chickling putting out it's wings for the first time... only to be pounced on by the fat yard cat who leaves its trail of feathers all the way from the porch to the kitchen and deposited by the fridge as a token of gratitude...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Rant Incoming...

<snip> dominating the game where I can't take a (bleep) without having to pay some player corp <snip>

/Rant done

The word is Pee and it's not blocked by the filters.

 

[aeshec]

People playing in solo/groups are not hurting open players at all. If someone's only argument is that solo/group players can affect system influence, then they should realize that they can affect the solo player's system influence as well. It goes both ways.

Shooting a clean player out of the sky isn't a very smart way to alter system influence anyway. There are many other ways to affect your faction positively.

Unless you just want more targets to mindlessly shoot. If that's the only leg of this argument then you should really just be honest and say you want to have more targets. Although that would indicate pushing players into open that really don't want to be which of course opens a huge can of worms.

Again, Open players have exactly the same tools to influence faction and system control at their disposal as solo players. Please stop claiming that this is a reason to abolish mode switching as it's completely transparent to everyone else that this has nothing to do with the real reason.

 

[Bigcheese]

Rant Incoming...

I'll tell you what I want from ED--a fun game (got it, and it's only going to get better), flexibility in how I want to play (I can actually switch between solo when I'm not sure how long I can stay online--my usual situation, my private group when I'm feeling sociable and I have a few consecutive hours to spare at one sitting, and, for those times I'm feeling really curious or very sociable--which is I'll admit rare--open). Now, I'll tell you what I don't want: I don't want other people trying to make me play the game the way they want to because they think their way's the only right way to play and cramming it down my throat. I don't want large player corporations and clans dominating the game where I can't take a (bleep) without having to pay some player corp a toll or a tax or begging for permission. I don't want to have to deal with the pewpew puddin's who are out to just ruin everyone else's good time. (My apologies to the good pvpers who simply seek an equal and fair contest of skills--and yes, I know you are out there and you just want to have fun too and I'm all on board with that.) If I wanted all that, I'd play EVE or some other pvp fest.

/Rant done

What's up with the fear mongering? Honestly, I don't understand why you guys feel the need to create these wildly unrealistic, over dramatic scenarios. It's like you don't even consider how things work within the game. It's a completely different dynamic than Eve. It wouldn't kill you to actually think about this stuff before making these absurd predictions.

Insisting you should be able to play in solo while effecting the open universe is the height of selfishness. That's the thing about the game, it places the ability to avoid any potential risk over anything else. Pretty lame if you think about it. They must think VERY little of their player base.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

What's up with the fear mongering? <snip>

Obviously has not read the "Sick of people comparing Elite with Eve" thread.

(PS. Certain name calling will get you a 7 day ban on this thread. Have you read the first post?)

 

[Messaline]

What's up with the fear mongering? Honestly, I don't understand why you guys feel the need to create these wildly unrealistic, over dramatic scenarios. It's like you don't even consider how things work within the game. It's a completely different dynamic than Eve. It wouldn't kill you to actually think about this stuff before making these absurd predictions.

Insisting you should be able to play in solo while effecting the open universe is the height of selfishness.

What is it about Elite that has attracted such a hardcore carebear crowd?

Had something to say, but didn't want to run foul of the monitors so I'll shut up now.

 

[Cmdr Effie Trinket]

Oh, so now the people defending mode switching and the 3 mode design need to stop "labelling" those who want it nerfed / limited / removed / locked etc...

Didn't see that coming up when accusations of those who use the game as it is designed (3 modes and switching each session) were labelled as "cheaters" and "exploiters" all within the first 20 pages of this thread and you wonder why the same people became aggressive in defence of the game?

The whole idea of being able to control who you see and interact with in an MMO is a new concept and it was bound to cause friction, some people have misunderstood what an MMO is and cannot grasp why this game is one - others just don't like change to the way things are done. I think these are the bigger parts of those wanting the game changed to the "normal" MMO style - the "griefer" type of course do exist and don't like how they have been emasculated by this game design and have decided to hide amongst those with genuine concerns or those who fear the idea this can become the "norm" for MMO gaming.

As for any group being the loudest, what group keep making these threads on this topic?... oh, right, not the solo or group people

With respect Sir, you are guilty of mixing two separate complaints/discussions together, that are entirely different and have no place even being in the same thread. Perhaps the Moderators are to blame for the mixing of the two?

1.Switching modes is fine
-Switching by disconnecting during an encounter is not fine
-Both are doable, so some choose to use that as justification for their own actions
-Playing Solo and Open or one or the other, is fine
-using one, to avoid the other, to unrealistically remove any risk and/or danger, is not fine, it is cheating; If not the game, then yourself!

2.Declaring Open to be the place to go, only if you like to be griefed, is not the same complaint/discussion as the previous point
-Declaring anyone who plays Open, to be a griefer, is not the same complaint/discussion as complaining about combat-loggers
-Playing Open is fine and does not automatically mean that you must be a nasty, bad, hateful person, just because you prefer some actual risk in your game time.

 

[Bigcheese]

Obviously has not read the "Sick of people comparing Elite with Eve" thread.

I did. Why do people make these comparisons without actually thinking about it?

I think it's just rationalization over their decision to play in fear of others.

(PS. Certain name calling will get you a 7 day ban on this thread. Have you read the first post?)

I was just asking what is it about this game that attracts players who want absolutely no challenge or risk in their game?

It's truly bizarre, never seen such group of people who let fear dominate their thought process like I do here.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Had something to say, but didn't want to run foul of the monitors so I'll shut up now.

I'll say it for you then.

The reason some of us get vocal is because a few people talk about things in terms of 'selfishness', 'exploit', 'cheating' and 'hiding' and a few other terms. Dr R. Do you now see how some people ramp up the emotion, and you want to turn it around and say that it is those who support the status quo that are extreme?

If you don't understand the whole design - One universe, play it like you want to, Open, Groups, Solo - then at least try to understand the reasons why some people play solo. It's not Just about PvP. Some people have hardware limitations and poor/capped/nerfed broadband, and some have it half the time.

Elite has always been about you in the big bad universe. Elite Dangerous has 'introduced' PvP possibilities, but this is new and developing. Enjoy it, give your opinions on it, but stop insulting other people because they don't think like you.

 

[aeshec]

It's truly bizarre, never seen such group of people who let fear dominate their thought process like I do here. Is it a cultural thing?

Exactly what do you mean by that?? :/

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

With respect Sir, <snip>

It is almost as bad as telling someone to go hide in Solo if "you don't want to be blown up..."

 

[Robert Maynard]

What's up with the fear mongering? Honestly, I don't understand why you guys feel the need to create these wildly unrealistic, over dramatic scenarios. It's like you don't even consider how things work within the game. It's a completely different dynamic than Eve. It wouldn't kill you to actually think about this stuff before making these absurd predictions.

Insisting you should be able to play in solo while effecting the open universe is the height of selfishness. That's the thing about the game, it places the ability to avoid any potential risk over anything else. Pretty lame if you think about it. They must think VERY little of their player base.

When proposals are made to change / remove features of the game, having the effect of removing choices available to all players to suit the play-style or perception of "how the game should be" of a subset of the player base, those proposals (if not unanimously accepted) will naturally meet with opposition. Ulterior motives will be guessed at (some incorrectly, some correctly).

Frontier created the game with all players affecting the same galactic background simulation - those who are happy with that are not forcing anything new onto those who do not like it - it's a feature of the game. It is those who wish to remove features that are trying to force something upon others. I take it that you discount any risk from NPCs when stating that "it places the ability to avoid any potential risk"....

I would expect that Frontier appreciate their player base - the Kickstarter pitch was well subscribed (c.25% over target) and players were offered the chance to become directly involved in design discussions (DDF pledge tier) - many happily took them up on that offer. Significantly more players than the original c.25,500 have backed prior to release of Alpha (another c.15,000-25,000) and from the last quoted figures the player-base now stands at c.300,000 - not bad for a game that released five and a half weeks ago....

 

[Bigcheese]

I'll say it for you then.

The reason some of us get vocal is because a few people talk about things in terms of 'selfishness', 'exploit', 'cheating' and 'hiding' and a few other terms. Dr R. Do you now see how some people ramp up the emotion, and you want to turn it around and say that it is those who support the status quo that are extreme?

If you don't understand the whole design - One universe, play it like you want to, Open, Groups, Solo - then at least try to understand the reasons why some people play solo. It's not Just about PvP. Some people have hardware limitations and poor/capped/nerfed broadband, and some have it half the time.

Elite has always been about you in the big bad universe. Elite Dangerous has 'introduced' PvP possibilities, but this is new and developing. Enjoy it, give your opinions on it, but stop insulting other people because they don't think like you.

I don't insult them because they don't think like me, obviously. Some people go right out and say "I trade in solo because it's safe and easy". That's fine, they are being honest. Others get insulted because they have to lie and make stuff up to make any sense. It's disingenuous in the extreme.

You can't play how you want btw, any open mode stuff is trivialized when all conflicts come down to who can run the most freight in solo.

That's the problem, solo mode isn't enough. Billion of systems aren't enough. They aren't happy unless they can have your cake and eat it too. The double standard is just really jarring to people who are used to others being a little more objective. But yeah, it's insanely selfish and the decision to allow people to go ghost mode at any time has completely compromised open play. ED will never be a good multiplayer game like this as any emergent gameplay takes a back seat to irrational fears from risk adverse players. That's why they get insulted, they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about while making the most self centered demands imaginable.

They should just change the title and trailer and be done with it. FD lacks the fortitude to make a decent multiplayer game. They feel we need to be treated with kid gloves for whatever reason.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I did. Why do people make these comparisons without actually thinking about it?

I think it's just rationalization over their decision to play in fear of others.

I was just asking what is it about this game that attracts players who want absolutely no challenge or risk in their game?

It's truly bizarre, never seen such group of people who let fear dominate their thought process like I do here.

Fear? It's a bit like walking to school each day wondering if you will run in to that bully who will blacken your eye and steal your lunch money. If you ever had to live through that you would understand. Maybe your experience was on the other side of the fence.

Bullying, Killing other players for no reason, affects people. Does not matter whether the fear is real or not. I have seen some bullying types on this forum and it's no wonder some people want to play only in Solo/Groups with that mentality vocalised on the forum.

Now, whether you like it or not, whatever you want to call it, people will express what they are feeling. You telling them to shut up, belittling them, or otherwise being aggressively overbearing is not respectful and only risks reinforcing what people think of you, and of those in the game on whose side (if there is such a thing) you are on.

Give a little, why don't you.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't insult them because they don't think like me, obviously. I insult them because they have to lie and make stuff up to make any sense. It's disingenuous in the extreme.

You can't play how you want btw, any open mode stuff is trivialized when all conflicts come down to who can run the most freight in solo.

That's the problem, solo mode isn't enough. Billion of systems aren't enough. They aren't happy unless they can have your cake and eat it too. The double standard is just really jarring to people who are used to others being a little more objective. But yeah, it's insanely selfish and the decision to allow people to go ghost mode at any time has completely compromised open play. ED will never be a good multiplayer game like this as any emergent gameplay takes a back seat to irrational fears from risk adverse players. That's why they get insulted, they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about while making the most self centered demands imaginable.

They should just change the title and trailer and be done with it.

When what one player wants conflicts with what another player wants then a compromise has to be made - one or other can be satisfied, not both - so, sometimes, neither ends up being happy with the result.

Again, the design of the game is Frontiers - the three game modes and the ability to switch between them on a session-by-session basis is part of the earliest stated game design - attempting to call out solo players as in some way creating this "issue" is, frankly, ridiculous - Frontier made these decisions a very long time ago....

 

[Messaline]

I'll say it for you then.

The reason some of us get vocal is because a few people talk about things in terms of 'selfishness', 'exploit', 'cheating' and 'hiding' and a few other terms. Dr R. Do you now see how some people ramp up the emotion, and you want to turn it around and say that it is those who support the status quo that are extreme?

If you don't understand the whole design - One universe, play it like you want to, Open, Groups, Solo - then at least try to understand the reasons why some people play solo. It's not Just about PvP. Some people have hardware limitations and poor/capped/nerfed broadband, and some have it half the time.

Elite has always been about you in the big bad universe. Elite Dangerous has 'introduced' PvP possibilities, but this is new and developing. Enjoy it, give your opinions on it, but stop insulting other people because they don't think like you.

And some are like me, who play solo for a combination of reasons: Mostly, because I never know how much time I can spend online at any given sitting. I can get called at anytime by my mother's nursing home to help settle her down or something else (she suffers from Alzheimers), Something might come up with my work--the only thing that takes precedence besides my faith, my family, and my loved ones with me is my job and my students. I'm also usually pretty picky with whom I socialize--solo and group provides a good way for me to interact. And yes, I do not want to be bothered by player killers who are merely seeking weaker ships for kill markings--I do not intend on being some player killer's practice target. I know that there are pvpers who enjoy roleplaying as pirates and who want and seek equal contests of skill and I want you to have a good time and hopefully you'll have fun--private groups are also excellent way for you to interact as is open. I'll admit, at times, I lose my patience, especially when I read some posts, and because I am a human being, I might lash out. Usually I catch myself and edit or delete, sometimes, my frustration spills out. Many, really I would say most, pvpers I think are just like me--you want to enjoy yourselves and have fun your way and you're more than willing to let me have fun mine. And I think pve'ers feel the same about pvp. However, there is a minority on both sides who think their vision is the only correct one. in time, I think FD will even things out--I hope it does.

 

[Bigcheese]

Fear? It's a bit like walking to school each day wondering if you will run in to that bully who will blacken your eye and steal your lunch money. If you ever had to live through that you would understand. Maybe your experience was on the other side of the fence.

It's a video game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It's a video game.

Indeed it is - and some people play video games to relax, others to gain as much emotional stimulation as they can achieve from the experience. These two types of player are not necessarily going to want to play the same way.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I don't insult them because they don't think like me, obviously. Some people go right out and say "I trade in solo because it's safe and easy". That's fine, they are being honest. Others get insulted because they have to lie and make stuff up to make any sense. It's disingenuous in the extreme.

You can't play how you want btw, any open mode stuff is trivialized when all conflicts come down to who can run the most freight in solo.

That's the problem, solo mode isn't enough. Billion of systems aren't enough. They aren't happy unless they can have your cake and eat it too. The double standard is just really jarring to people who are used to others being a little more objective. But yeah, it's insanely selfish and the decision to allow people to go ghost mode at any time has completely compromised open play. ED will never be a good multiplayer game like this as any emergent gameplay takes a back seat to irrational fears from risk adverse players. That's why they get insulted, they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about while making the most self centered demands imaginable.

They should just change the title and trailer and be done with it. FD lacks the fortitude to make a decent multiplayer game. They feel we need to be treated with kid gloves for whatever reason.

What decision? Nothing has changed since the inception? What's Ghost Mode? What game is that from? You are implying something that does not exist! Selfish?

Okay - I'll admit that there are some (very possibly a small minority of players) who are 'misusing' the mode switching for some reason. Most are not. It's just the same as Open players blocking the PtP ports to avoid interdictions. However, to label the whole however many hundreds of thousands of players who play in solo as 'cheating' really takes some gall.

You're insistence that this is somehow easier simply because there are not there to face the PvPer's guns that everything else is so much easier is so far from the mark and if you read this thread through would know how many players testify that this is not so. Kid Gloves? You are arguing from a false assumption.

 

[TrueFranco]

Like everyone say "it's Frontier game" they can change it, and I'm very optimistic they will sooner or later. There must be a reason why this thread got sticky