Here is a Python beating 3 of us

Then why is it being balanced around that? I was aiming for a Python to have an awesome ship that does it all in my Solo/Private group. How does that affect anyone? It doesn't make the game "Better for everyone", it makes the game "better for everyone who couldn't afford a Python". In almost every videogame there is a 'better' thing to get. Now they are taking that away. I am starting to lose my trading drive because basically if it's better than the Viper, it needs to be toned down. That's ridiculous. Take any other profession and you can better versions, now you have combat balanced around PVP alone. Nobody cared that the Python was awesome until a bunch of little Viper pilots couldn't kill it.

You know, the Viper is a pure combat ship, unlike the Python... and it's not like the Viper is better at combat than the Python, even after these changes. The Python is also currently capable of escaping at will unlike the Viper, it is practically invinicble with shield cells unless fired upon by at least 3 Vipers or Cobras with purely anti-shield weapons, it can haul more cargo than any ship but the dedicated large merchant ships, and it has SynthFur lined seats.

Also, I love your ''In almost every videogame'' argument. That's the spirit of Elite, isn't it? :D
 
Then why is it being balanced around that? I was aiming for a Python to have an awesome ship that does it all in my Solo/Private group. How does that affect anyone? It doesn't make the game "Better for everyone", it makes the game "better for everyone who couldn't afford a Python". In almost every videogame there is a 'better' thing to get. Now they are taking that away. I am starting to lose my trading drive because basically if it's better than the Viper, it needs to be toned down. That's ridiculous. Take any other profession and you can better versions, now you have combat balanced around PVP alone. Nobody cared that the Python was awesome until a bunch of little Viper pilots couldn't kill it.

Who said it is being balanced around the viper? It is being balanced for the game; period. In fact I believe all ships will be getting a balance pass soon.

Also, if there are also "better things to get", what about the anaconda? I don't hear people screaming for that to be buffed, considering its price. It's just that the python was a reasonable price to pay for a faceroll "one hit all-in-wonder" ship (which I assume you own) and now it looks like you may have wasted your credits. Just remember, you can always sell it for a paltry 10% loss and get something that suits your play style better. It's just the python won't be that ship anymore.

To be honest, we'll only really get to see the full potential of ship balancing when we get co-op play sorted and can work in teams or PC factions.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
Ah,

So many arm chair quarterbacks trying to prove how awesome they are :D.

Unless you can show a video of you being awesome in combat, then you're nothing but a useless bag of hot air ;)

Kudos OP for putting that video up. But I'm sure you've realised it's almost as bad as a youtube comments section here.

LOL it's NO WAY near as bad here - are you serious!?? lol ;)
 
Without commenting on what needs buffing or nerfing at all, couple of things spring to mind.

You three need to get more used to fighting in a group. At the very minimum you need to have a plan.

Even a simple one works - for example something like this...

As soon as one of you is being shot at, yell over voice comms "He's on me." Set your power to engines and shields and extend. Use SCBs and boost, make him chase you, work for his shots. The longer you can keep his attention and survive it, the more uninterrupted time your friends have to fire on a target that isn't shooting back except with turrets.
While he's doing that the others should get on his six, configure power to engines and guns and concentrate their fire, pounding his shields with as high an alpha as they can combine to deliver, because you want them DOWN ASAP to neutralize his SCBs.
As soon as one of your wingmen sees him start to turn to engage one of them (they'll see it faster than you will from just watching the scanner) he calls over comms "He's turning." That tells you it's safe to turn back into the fight, because he's no longer targeting you.
You want to get back to where he's now targeting one of your wingmen as fast as you can, with speed and firepower being your priority, because you're not being shot at any more.
He picks a wingman to target, wingman reports that he's under fire and repeats the cycle.

That's just one tactic, you can work out others.

If you're working together well enough, while he's shooting at one of you he should be under CONSTANT fire from the other two. If you can sustain that, ANY single ship will go down eventually.
 
You know, the Viper is a pure combat ship, unlike the Python... and it's not like the Viper is better at combat than the Python, even after these changes. The Python is also currently capable of escaping at will unlike the Viper, it is practically invinicble with shield cells unless fired upon by at least 3 Vipers or Cobras with purely anti-shield weapons, it can haul more cargo than any ship but the dedicated large merchant ships, and it has SynthFur lined seats.

Also, I love your ''In almost every videogame'' argument. That's the spirit of Elite, isn't it? :D

True, that 'better things to get' wasn't really fitting. Point still stands though, is the Python the pinnacle of all ships and we'll never see better? Does every ship introduced need to be able to be destroyed by a Viper? If the Python can't be a 'great all around ship' then are we never going to see one of those? Are we always going to have two ships, or three ships, or four ships depending on what we want to do? Who cares if the Python was great at all things, you can still buy ships that are great at combat, great at trading. Does it really matter if I fly back to switch into an Asp? I don't understand the mentality here. It's like ship designers can't make a good all around ship that is great?

Who said it is being balanced around the viper? It is being balanced for the game; period. In fact I believe all ships will be getting a balance pass soon.

Also, if there are also "better things to get", what about the anaconda? I don't hear people screaming for that to be buffed, considering its price. It's just that the python was a reasonable price to pay for a faceroll "one hit all-in-wonder" ship (which I assume you own) and now it looks like you may have wasted your credits. Just remember, you can always sell it for a paltry 10% loss and get something that suits your play style better. It's just the python won't be that ship anymore.

To be honest, we'll only really get to see the full potential of ship balancing when we get co-op play sorted and can work in teams or PC factions.

Nope, don't own it. Did some bad math in my head about a week ago and had to take the 7m hit and return it after flying it for about 20 minutes, back to my T7 for trading. Now I have a decked Asp and Clipper as well as more than enough credits to buy one ... but I just don't know if I should ... what changes are coming next, will it be nerfed again? This precedent is set; don't get used to it, it will change.

I wanted a combat ship and trading ship that I could switch around the loadout depending on what I wanted to do. That seemed reasonable as now, with two ships, I'm pretty much tied to a system unless I want to buy a dumbship to buy/trade and move them. I wanted to go out and hit up random spots to trade or bounty hunt but now I'm tied to a system due to not being able to move ships unless I do some trickery.

I hate, really, really hate that this game is becoming more and more focused on PVP balance. Was the Python too powerful against NPCs? Buff the AI, improve the mechanics. But PVE wasn't the problem of the Python was it? It was the little Vipers that couldn't kill it. Now every ship is set to this baseline "can a Viper kill it?"

I don't see a problem with ships becoming obsolete. Nobody cares that the Sidewinder is underpowered and people constantly claim "get out of that ship as soon as you can" but the 4% of people that owned Pythons it doesn't work that way. It's "too good, so go back to two ships instead".

This game is just becoming less and less of what was promised. PVP balance is a joke, and that's what's being done.
 
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Explain why people should play and earn money for better ship, risk flying 100 mln ship with 8 mln rebuy when they can be easly beaten by a 120k and 30k rebuy cost craft ?

No sense to play at all. Get cobra or viper, make some pvp, and end of game.
... sory i have got my cobra from kickstarter, so i can run game, play 5 minutes and close, because it is most powerful ship and it could beat every 100mln ship. Or sell cobra and buy 2 vipers. I will be indestructible...



He just play.

I have about 350mln and i just playing too. It is not magic. Just playing.
It is really simple. He play, spent time in game, so he have better ship.

Kyokushin: Pls don't always write MIN if you mean MIO = Millions. ;-) It's confusing.

I just did 349.820 Credits in a bit more than 1 hour bounty hunting. What is your average Cr rate for 1 hour trading? Just interesting to see.
 
Kyokushin: Pls don't always write MIN if you mean MIO = Millions. ;-) It's confusing.

I just did 349.820 Credits in a bit more than 1 hour bounty hunting. What is your average Cr rate for 1 hour trading? Just interesting to see.

It depends on the ship.

A trade kitted Asp, on a standard easy run (1-2 jumps max) could net between 500,000 and 1,000,000 per hour depending on how lucky you are with your commodity supply and demand. Maybe more if you're determined to speed trade :)

I'm sure a type 9 could do far more than that, probably in excess of 2,000,000 per hour.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
People who think this, don't be morons.... The Python is a vastly more expensive ship than the tiny fraction of a cost viper/cobras/asps. Python should do this 24/7 especially against people who use gimballed weapons and have no shield cells.

No way in hell should a ship that takes only part of a day to acquire should have an easy time against a ship that takes weeks and months to obtain.

Too bad this will be the case once the Python receives it's nerf. Do the numbers... its a huge nerf. Frontier you are doing it wrong... listening to the wrong people. RIP Python.

This I don't get. Didn't all this start after SCB's were introduced? Reduce its agility (it has the same as a Viper - really??) perhaps but let's not start nerfing things. Surely if nerfs are coming they didn't think to much on the system they put in place? If they're going to make it easy for me in an Eagle to kill a python then I'm going to give up (BTW I don't have a python and I'm not interested in one, I still have a hauler lol).

I think they need to look at the statistics again and work on the basis of "Small ships are fast and agile but don't have big weapons - Large ships are slower and less agile but have better shields, armour and can carry bigger weapons" and generally require another big ship to take them on or lots of little ones.

Looking at the ship stats, I would have thought the Anaconda needed a BUFF if anything. More armour, less agility and maybe buff it's shields as well.

In this combat, the 3 ships still managed to get it's shields almost down. Now if they had been more coordinated, I'm thinking perhaps we would have seen them victorious which doesn't seem right. In the Vid you can see how small the Cobra is against the Python.
 
They didn't the Python interdicted one of them. No one has mentioned the most surprising aspect of this encounter....That the other two managed to nail down the low energy wake... I've found it like trying to hurd cats.

Yep. To me, the most exciting part was the build up. Watching the part where fergal drops in to the instance, his mate in the Cobra zooming past, re-selecting target to the Python, and then the other blip showing up when the other Viper dropped in. Then the warm up dance, should we, should we not and then fergal goes, "LLLlleeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrroooyyyyyyyyyyyyyy....."
 
Entering low energy wakes is easier near gravitational bodies as opposed to being in deep space where theres nothing limiting your acceleration besides throttle.
 
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Title says it all.

3 of us were in supercruise, 2 vipers and a cobra. A player in a Python interdicted the cobra, we jumped in.

Enjoy our demise :)

[video=youtube;Q3S-VccfIiw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3S-VccfIiw[/video]


Interesting video! very nice. However you can keep maximum boost speed for much longer by pressing flight assist off and keep down up and right/left directional thrusters. This enables you to keep only 2 pips in engine and 4 in systems while escaping at an almost constant max boost speed. You can even alter direction a bit without loosing speed(to make it harder for your pursuer to hit). I do this in the following video:


[video=youtube;ePxDhDzJIt0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxDhDzJIt0&feature=youtu.be[/video]


Another thing you could have done, was to kite him. In a viper you can usually backpedal + down/upthrust-turn as fast, or almost as fast as the the python can fly towards you. At long distances his turrets/gimballed will be much less effective, unless he uses fixed of course? (but granted this could be perceived as sissy-combat). I know I can easily sit here and give wise advice in hindsight, and I would probably had as much trouble as you would in a similarly fight. In any case great fight and video :)
 
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Mature response, thank you. You prove my point that nerfing the Python isn't needed as vipers kill it already.

You seem an wicked vision of how dog fighting works. Dog fighting has huge skill gaps. If I can kill an Python with an eagle does not mean that eagle needs to be nerfed or that the Python is underpowered.
I mainly just means that my skill + the abilities of my ship + my luck were greater than the skill of my enemy + the abilities of his ship + his luck.

And in most of these scenarios you can switch the ships and still have the same pilot winning. Though 34 shield cells and 4 pips to shields need a lot of failing to lose your ship against something that barely has the firepower to kill you even without shield cells ;-)
 
Interesting video! very nice. However you can keep maximum boost speed for much longer by pressing flight assist off and keep down up and right/left directional thrusters. This enables you to keep only 2 pips in engine and 4 in systems while escaping at an almost constant max boost speed. You can even alter direction a bit without loosing speed(to make it harder for your pursuer to hit). I do this in the following video:


[video=youtube;ePxDhDzJIt0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxDhDzJIt0&feature=youtu.be[/video]

I didn't realise the bleed off on your speed is so little with flight assist off, I did use it all the time to escape when there wasn't any slowdown, but that was quite a while ago.

Another thing you could have done, was to kite him. In a viper you can usually backpedal + down/upthrust-turn as fast, or almost as fast as the the python can fly towards you. At long distances his turrets/gimballed will be much less effective, unless he uses fixed of course? (but granted this could be perceived as sissy-combat). I know I can easily sit here and give wise advice in hindsight, and I would probably had as much trouble as you would in a similarly fight. In any case great fight and video :)

I don't think I could have kited him, with the speed he seemed to have at the start.

I had a fair problem reengaging the python as well. I needed 2 or 4 pips in engines and had to boost to get back in range with him, he was probably using 4 pips to engines to keep up with the guys he was shooting at.
 
I'll be honest with ya.. Its going to be a SAD day MARK MY WORDS for ALOT of people when they Nerf the PYTHON specifically just cuase of a cword with LACK of skill. then the actual ship being the problem.

I think shield cell's need to be limited..just a tad .. but not much.

Pythons Need to be left alone. a 33% drop is to much. I think A 15 to 20 % is a bit more fair in the shield power.

I'll be Honest. I paid $150 for a game. to get the extra's. and once the Python was made. I fell in Love. thats my end game ship for me.

I got this game. as my first space sim over others mainly becuase for the most part it look like the ship were decently well balenced to start with. not just another game company making differnt ships almost monthly for people to get lured into ..

Honeslty of the Nerf makes it to were a cheap fighter ship can rip my shields down and cost me WAY to much in repairs for that ship then whats its worth. i will find it hard to continue to even play anymore.

your average skilled player or New player should not be able to tear down a bigger ship so easy. Frontier should not give into the cry babys because those people didnt spend the hard earned time to get INTO a Python or better themselves. If frontier truns out to start nerfing everything they put out i may as well start playing World of warcraft again so atleast that game company gives me everything i want without having to put alot of work into it.

PLEASE reconsider the 33% drop. need to test that further.

I did combat in almost every ship so far. I didnt have a problem.. but then again. I picked and chosed my battles and i will freely admit I ran alot also. cuase i knew better then to bite off more then i can chew.

speaking in general BTW not ripping on OP again LMAO
 
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issue is. If a lot of people see a *OP* ship they cry "OP! NERF! YESTERDAY!" Instead they should go "omg..that is awesome. I want one!"
As soon when i saw the capabilities and the stats of the beast, i was lik "omg i need that. YESTERDAY"
I worked my ass off to get to one. I am working my ass off to upgrade it. And by the time i have a full A python, it will be nerfed due to the first group of people i mentionned.
 
Cool fight, cool response by the Python pilot. +rep to both.

As for the others, can't we just enjoy a vid of a nice fight *without* going into the "nerf this, don't nerf that" debate?
 
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