Why are traders playing Open Play?

[TannakaObi]

I love how people assume that because I think criminals are scum I must be someone who combat logs. Interesting leap that... seems to me you are all just looking for someone to attack.

1. I play open exclusively
2. I play self-imposed Ironman
3. I have never Alt-F4'ed or employed any exploit
4. I fight, I trade, I mine, I explore, I smuggle, I don't pirate

If it weren't a complete waste of Frontier's time I would ask them to do a DB query on my account and confirm that for you apparently rather sensitive sooks. You want to play criminals yet not be referred to as scum? What should I call you then? Gentlemen?

Consider the following questions:

• If you enter my home, put a gun to my head, and demand money are you a criminal?
• If you hack my account in an online game and steal my virtual items are you a criminal?
• If you attack me in an online game, put a gun to my head, and steal my virtual items are you a criminal?

There is a big difference between playing a criminal in a game where those you are offending are virtual entities (NPCs) and playing a criminal in a game where those you are offending are other players. When the game enables that behaviour (which it does right now by not treating criminals accordingly) rather than deterring it, then there is a problem. The problem isn't with the players, it's with the game mechanics.

Now imagine you took that attitude to a game like cod, oh my god! Someone just shot me. That's exactly as bad has hacking my account.... call the guard!

#slaps forehead

 

[Masta Squidge]

Based on this guy's logic, killing someone in Call of Duty and picking up their ammo is criminal act- beat me to it:

Now imagine you took that attitude to a game like cod, oh my god! Someone just shot me. That's exactly as bad has hacking my account.... call the guard!

#slaps forehead

 

[DYSEQTA]

If you are in the camp that thinks a trade ship should be able to survive in a hostile area then no amount of tweaking short of removing PvP is going to make you happy.

There is no difference between a hostile area and a safe area in ED right now, in fact its probably safe to say that it's more dangerous in controlled space then in anarchy space right now because they game doesn't treat criminals accordingly. Pirates can run around freely in controlled space just as easily as in anarchy. In controlled space pirates should be being endlessly hounded by system security to the point where it is painful for them from a gameplay perspective.

Anarchy is anarchy, what happens in anarchy stays in anarchy and that's the way it should be.

Based on this guy's logic, killing someone in Call of Duty and picking up their ammo is criminal act- beat me to it:

No in Call of Duty players are soldiers. Please engage brain.

 

[withnail]

Never been interdicted. Now that really ticks me off.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

In the last ten minutes in Yembo, 4 type six transports have Alt-F4'ed on me. Why are you even playing in Open Play? This ticks me off so much, go play on solo if you can't take piracy.

I hope you recorded their names and passed them on to FD.

they could be in open so they can compete for the cash prize, you can't get that if you play solo.

...and they will not get the cash prize if they combat logged.

The answer to the OP is that said traders are not necessarily dumb, though if they are combat logging it makes you wonder. I don;t do much trading, but I always play in open, since it seems like cheating to run away and hide in solo. That should not be an option, of course, not that I object to the idea of open and solo per se, but because solo should not be an 'easy option'. One of the problems with FD releasing the game before it was ready is that there will be lots of traders who got fat in easy mode squealing like stuck pigs if ever FD get around to sorting their mess out. And those traders will carry an unearned fortune into the rest of the game that people coming later will have to work much harder for.

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Whether you mean it to or not, the measures you are proposing suffer from the conflation of PvP killers with pirates, they are two different things. Any tweaks to the mechanic by FD have to be more nuanced than that and need to distinguish between the pirate, that only shoots when he has to, to enforce his demands, and the ganker who only wants to blow up their target anyway. Both would qualify as "gameplay styles that are supported but carry an in-game penalty" but the kinds of penalties and/or how they are applied need to be different.

All of which were in the DDA proposals, but not (yet) implemented.

 

[Masta Squidge]

There is no difference between a hostile area and a safe area in ED right now, in fact its probably safe to say that it's more dangerous in controlled space then in anarchy space right now because they game doesn't treat criminals accordingly. Pirates can run around freely in controlled space just as easily as in anarchy. In controlled space pirates should be being endlessly hounded by system security to the point where it is painful for them from a gameplay perspective.

Anarchy is anarchy, what happens in anarchy stays in anarchy and that's the way it should be.

Even in a tightly controlled system you are talking trillions of cubic lightseconds to patrol, and its plainly apparent that scanners can't pick up ships at unlimited range.

There is no reason to assume that anyone couldn't be hiding right in the middle of a system as long as they are far enough away from authorities.

You also can't expect an infinite presence of police forces either. So if a "criminal" (who is just playing one aspect of the game, I might remind you) avoids areas which are commonly patrolled, they won't be shot at by them constantly. In real life, criminals are everywhere, and you can't expect the police to save you.

 

[Jackruss]

U

I love how people assume that because I think criminals are scum I must be someone who combat logs. Interesting leap that... seems to me you are all just looking for someone to attack.

1. I play open exclusively
2. I play self-imposed Ironman
3. I have never Alt-F4'ed or employed any exploit
4. I fight, I trade, I mine, I explore, I smuggle, I don't pirate

If it weren't a complete waste of Frontier's time I would ask them to do a DB query on my account and confirm that for you apparently rather sensitive sooks. You want to play criminals yet not be referred to as scum? What should I call you then? Gentlemen?

Consider the following questions:

• If you enter my home, put a gun to my head, and demand money are you a criminal?
• If you hack my account in an online game and steal my virtual items are you a criminal?
• If you attack me in an online game, put a gun to my head, and steal my virtual items are you a criminal?

There is a big difference between playing a criminal in a game where those you are offending are virtual entities (NPCs) and playing a criminal in a game where those you are offending are other players. When the game enables that behaviour (which it does right now by not treating criminals accordingly) rather than deterring it, then there is a problem. The problem isn't with the players, it's with the game mechanics.

Completely agree I did Ironman from mid December until last Friday 13th and lost my Python to a mission Anaconda who rammed me. I just ws not expecting that.
My point in this crying thread is that Pirates seem to think that Open equals I consent to be Pirated.
In truth it means only that I consent to multi player not for some PVP Prate to rob me.
I only play Open but I won't give in to Pirates.
You can play your game, if I can play mine without you.

 

[BlackReign]

If all that you were after was a cheap kill against an easy target (which a type 6 definitely is, even for the weaker combat ships) then with the greatest respect you are part of the problem because it's folks playing like this that encourages weaker players to logoffski, damaging the game for folks who actually want to play as pirates.

ED counts all kills as kills. So do I. All this talk about cheap and noble kills is . If someone's out there with a type6, and they get interdicted that's their fault. No one has to, nor should they, show mercy. Kills are part of the game. Period. If we aren't supposed to get "cheap kills" then I guess all of us need to ask FD support to roll back all of our NPC kills, as those are certianly "cheap".

The whole logoffski whine is from those that don't get alot of kills and need every one they can get. The logoffski is unethical, but so is piracy, so you get no sympathy or support from me. FD's never going to do anything about logoffski, because they don't know how to do it. Just like all the bugs we have to deal with, this is yet another issue FD will not fix. Nor can they, to be fair. I don't know of ANY games that prevent or punish logoffs to avoid kills. But yet, people here still hold on to the empty dream of stopping it.

And unless you have proof that someone is performing a logoffski, your whining is simply childish. I've had CMDR's almost killed and they vanished. Let's not pretend that the ED server infrastructure is bug-free. Bottom line, act like an adult, stop the whining, and stop begging FD to supplement your lack of skill.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Personally i am glad that the game reacts fast to non responding clients. Having crashs with my video card at times when i move away from stars, and i wouldn't want to let the game wait until my ship might crash into whatnot. But sure, i understand your point OP. Maybe a compromise would be, that there is only a prolonged period the game waits as soon as the interdiction starts and resets back to normal logoff behaviour after a reasonable amount of time where the fight should be solved (3 - 5 Mins?).

 

[Masta Squidge]

U


Completely agree I did Ironman from mid December until last Friday 13th and lost my Python to a mission Anaconda who rammed me. I just ws not expecting that.
My point in this crying thread is that Pirates seem to think that Open equals I concentrate to be Pirated.
In truth it means only that I consent to multi player not for some PVP Prate to rob me.
I only play Open but I won't give in to Pirates.
You can play your game, if I can play mine without you.

Sorry buddy, it literally means you consent to the possibility of interacting with other players, good and bad. Piracy is intended to be an aspect of the game.


Protip: Learn from EvE players - only fly what you can afford to replace. In fact, replacing a ship in this game is infinitely less stressful than EvE is. You cannot possibly sit here and complain about people doing a thing that the developers intend for them to do.

Even if you impose harsher penalties, they will still do it as long as it is worth it. And given that the devs intend for it to be a viable line of "work", you cannot also nerf it to the point of making it NOT worth doing.


And before you get butthurt, I have in fact never fired a single shot at another player in this game to date. And I don't intend to either, unless they attack me first. I have no desire for such activities, as there are easier ways to make far more money.

 

[Chris M Fortune]

Even in a tightly controlled system you are talking trillions of cubic lightseconds to patrol, and its plainly apparent that scanners can't pick up ships at unlimited range.

There is no reason to assume that anyone couldn't be hiding right in the middle of a system as long as they are far enough away from authorities.

You also can't expect an infinite presence of police forces either. So if a "criminal" (who is just playing one aspect of the game, I might remind you) avoids areas which are commonly patrolled, they won't be shot at by them constantly. In real life, criminals are everywhere, and you can't expect the police to save you.

Well put but once spotted a criminal is chased down relentlessly. This side of the equation just doesn't seem to exist unless you accidently wing someone in a nav beacon area. That is lighting a flare to every NPC that does not show a wanted status.

 

[MaraJade]

The biggest problem with this thread is calling traders "dumb". Should the individual who combat log, not have, Of course. But now suddenly all traders who play in open are dumb. Don't kid yourself, there are many "pirates" or "pvpers" who combat log when they are suddenly loosing the battle.

Calling people names doesn't help. If possible report the players you see do this and move on. It's been identified as an area of concern to be fixed.

 

[ICO_hr]

Any reason why FD are still allowing people to Alt+F4 in Open or they just cant prevent it currently?

 

[Masta Squidge]

The one thing I do agree with here is that they should be chased out of the system once spotted.

Into and out of supercruise, so long as they are in system.

 

[NewYears1978]

they need to introduce a long painful delay for people who combat log -- their ships should remain in space for several minutes.

I've said this long ago..there's already a built in 14 second timer for quitting during certain situations..why not just add it to ALT-F4-ing too...

 

[Herik]

How do you know that they have Alt-F4'd, it is entirely possible that that hit ESC and 'Save and Quit' - which as it stands is a valid way to leave the game .. I am failing to understand this notion that 'Open' is a free for all and if you don't like PvP you should not play in 'Open' mode. why should players who like interaction with others have to join a private group or the 'Mobius' group (which incidentally, if Mobius had not created it would not exist) or play Solo to enjoy the game.
Just because some people think that ED is a PvP battle ground, it really doesn't mean that it is.

I really wish that Multi-player was never introduced, we would definitely have a better and more involved game if they had just ignored the norm.

How right you are...+1

 

[TannakaObi]

The biggest problem with this thread is calling traders "dumb". Should the individual who combat log, not have, Of course. But now suddenly all traders who play in open are dumb. Don't kid yourself, there are many "pirates" or "pvpers" who combat log when they are suddenly loosing the battle.

Calling people names doesn't help. If possible report the players you see do this and move on. It's been identified as an area of concern to be fixed.

I think it is safe to say that the op meant that only the ones that combat log are dumb. Which I agree with. Cheating is dumb, for everyone.

 

[ICO_hr]

I've said this long ago..there's already a built in 14 second timer for quitting during certain situations..why not just add it to ALT-F4-ing too...

Because is not the same afaik. They should keep you ship(avatar) on the servers 15-30 seconds after you quit the game for whatever reason. Also if you're in combat you shouldn't have the option to quit the game until there is no one else around you at some distance. This is the only solution to this. Until they make this Open play will be complete joke.

 

[Koen]

Any reason why FD are still allowing people to Alt+F4 in Open or they just cant prevent it currently?

It is hard to detect due to the p2p networking model.

In theory, the computer of the player who was fighting with the one who logged off could report, but if a player messed with his firewall to block p2p it would generate false reports.

Basically, they would need a constant connected client/server model to be somewhat sure somebody did Alt-F4 or disconnect the router.

 

[Derath]

there is an obvious difference between people who wait to quit and people who Alt F4 you'd have to be blind to not notice it lol, I do agree that quitting with the 15s wait is dubious behaviour but its better than Alt F4