Eve can have a huge amount of players in the same space.
Are you guys joking? I find it hard to believe anyone can be this obtuse.
Realizing the Elite Dangerous is an MMO (whether you like it or not)
- Thread starter olesk
- Start date
Eve can have a huge amount of players in the same space.
Are you guys joking? I find it hard to believe anyone can be this obtuse.
Hatsune Miku
Banned
Funny how those top dogs have kept a certain game quite alive and tight knit with varied and interesting mechanics.
But no, it would have been much wiser for the company to have ignored all the issues and gone out of business according to you.
Elite is Elite, it stands or falls on its own terms.
If it becomes a clone of another game, them what's the point of playing Elite?
If it becomes a clone of another game, them what's the point of playing Elite?
Every single person in the ED World can meet with any other person in that world.
The only other game I can think of that fits that description that is quite definitely considered an MMO is Eve.
Do what exactly makes Elite not an MMO?
And operation flashpoint had 100 player servers, just like freelancer, and they weren't MMOs.
There is more than just players and a persistance universe to categorise a game as a mmo, and just because some guy insists that ED is an mmo, doesn't mean he's right or that even he knows what he is saying, it's pretty much the same talk as killing is griefing, as much people say it is, doesn't mean they're right and they know what they're saying.
But anyway, this talk won't go anywhere, just accept that the Devs already stated this isn't a mmo, but simply an online game.
Is this a thread where people argue about semantics? If you guys really have time to argue about what genre something is, maybe you could categorise my steam catalog for me? When you've done that, my film collection still needs doing. Lucky for you my music collection is done already.
So every online game ever made is an mmo.
How can you not understand that to be an mmo you need to accommodate a massive amount of players in the same game. All elite does is create games that you join, it's a p2p matchmaking system. It is a 32 player (lol even this is a dream) game.
Come on dude, you can't be this dense. "Massively multiplayer", not "massive" and "multiplayer". Lol this is just funny.
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The thing is, it doesn't take long to start amassing millions.
I've been trading Rares at a half- pace, and I can make a million an hour with a cobra that has 24 cargo slots.
God forbid I get an actual hauler and make a real trip. I'm not at all surprised by people making 10s of millions a day with only a few hours of focused trading.
That's not enough content for a game of this scope at all.
That being said, I'm not going to cry about it and quit because a crowd funded game isn't finished yet.
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This is the main issue, that they made trading too lucrative at the very start and although they have scaled it back, the damage is already done. The other major issue is that heavy instancing doesn't work for a sandbox game that relies heavily on player interaction. I want to go back to my reference to the original Guildwars which also had heavy instancing, but instead of being a sandbox it was made up of highly linear scripted storylines. In that, the instances worked with the core gameplay while the instances in ED are a detriment to the gameplay.
Well, if ED is a MMO, then so is Dark Souls.
I think you guys are trying too hard to push ED into the MMO genre.
I think you guys are trying too hard to push ED into the MMO genre.
Just to kill the "ED is not a MMO", from Wikipedia, on ED:
Elite: Dangerous is a space adventure, trading, and combat simulator that is the fourth release in the Elite video game series. Piloting a spaceship, the player explores a realistic 1:1 scale open world galaxy based on the real Milky Way, with the gameplay being open-ended. The game is the first in the series to attempt to feature massively multiplayer gameplay, with players' actions affecting the narrative story of the game's persistent universe, while also retaining single player options. It is the sequel to Frontier: First Encounters,[5] the third game in the Elite series, released in 1995.
On MMOs in general:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
So with that out of the way, back to topic. Arguing for/against ED being an MMO misses the point: there are elements to use and problems to avoid from the wider universe of MMOs. I was simply trying to kickstart a discussion about what ED could learn from other MMOs. Personally I think that assassination missions is a funny example, as they are an MMO classic. You have to hunt in 3 systems until you meet a trader who tells you which system the target is in. Then you go to the final system an kill the poor sod. Mission done. Nothing wrong with this, but do three in a row and you probably won't really want to do that mission class again. Kill quests, being one of the core quest types (along fetch quests for example - "trade quests" in ED) exists in many MMOs, and some of them are not boring, because the designers introduced clever twists to them. Learning from this can only make ED better and more fun. That was what my OP was trying to be about
Elite: Dangerous is a space adventure, trading, and combat simulator that is the fourth release in the Elite video game series. Piloting a spaceship, the player explores a realistic 1:1 scale open world galaxy based on the real Milky Way, with the gameplay being open-ended. The game is the first in the series to attempt to feature massively multiplayer gameplay, with players' actions affecting the narrative story of the game's persistent universe, while also retaining single player options. It is the sequel to Frontier: First Encounters,[5] the third game in the Elite series, released in 1995.
On MMOs in general:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
So with that out of the way, back to topic. Arguing for/against ED being an MMO misses the point: there are elements to use and problems to avoid from the wider universe of MMOs. I was simply trying to kickstart a discussion about what ED could learn from other MMOs. Personally I think that assassination missions is a funny example, as they are an MMO classic. You have to hunt in 3 systems until you meet a trader who tells you which system the target is in. Then you go to the final system an kill the poor sod. Mission done. Nothing wrong with this, but do three in a row and you probably won't really want to do that mission class again. Kill quests, being one of the core quest types (along fetch quests for example - "trade quests" in ED) exists in many MMOs, and some of them are not boring, because the designers introduced clever twists to them. Learning from this can only make ED better and more fun. That was what my OP was trying to be about
Just to kill the "ED is not a MMO", from Wikipedia, on ED:
Elite: Dangerous is a space adventure, trading, and combat simulator that is the fourth release in the Elite video game series. Piloting a spaceship, the player explores a realistic 1:1 scale open world galaxy based on the real Milky Way, with the gameplay being open-ended. The game is the first in the series to attempt to feature massively multiplayer gameplay, with players' actions affecting the narrative story of the game's persistent universe, while also retaining single player options. It is the sequel to Frontier: First Encounters,[5] the third game in the Elite series, released in 1995.
On MMOs in general:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
So with that out of the way, back to topic. Arguing for/against ED being an MMO misses the point: there are elements to use and problems to avoid from the wider universe of MMOs. I was simply trying to kickstart a discussion about what ED could learn from other MMOs. Personally I think that assassination missions is a funny example, as they are an MMO classic. You have to hunt in 3 systems until you meet a trader who tells you which system the target is in. Then you go to the final system an kill the poor sod. Mission done. Nothing wrong with this, but do three in a row and you probably won't really want to do that mission class again. Kill quests, being one of the core quest types (along fetch quests for example - "trade quests" in ED) exists in many MMOs, and some of them are not boring, because the designers introduced clever twists to them. Learning from this can only make ED better and more fun. That was what my OP was trying to be about
Here's the thing about quests in normal mmorpgs. In those games you get quests from NPCs that usually contain storylines or bits of lore, and from that you get quest chains that develop the storyline even more. However, in ED we get our "quests" from a bulletin board where there is no NPC interaction and next-to-no storyline. How do you make a plain old quest less boring? By putting an interesting storyline with it, but this option (right now) isn't available to ED. If we ever get the ability to walk around space stations this will change, because we will be able to walk up to NPCs and gain quests that way instead of the bulletin board. Right now though all the storyline we get is from the News board.
They ( FD ) should p2p let go. I does no good to the game. There will be and there is no real multiplayer. Only instances. And the cap of 32 Player. Thats not enough.
It would do Elite a real favor to shift to one world server. One universe and not all shatterd to thousand pieces. Seperate the online and offline part. Thats doable...
There will be always people how complain about this and that. Thats okay and its the reason we all are here. But this enables FD to keep Elite alive. Without a dramatic change Elite will last 1 or 2 years and then will die off. Many will switch to SC on release. I think they ( SC ) will and have monitored all this closley. And the wont make the errores FD has done. No Content, no living universe, no real multiplayer. I hope to see Elite will survive the next 12 month. But its looks not good for the patient.
Sure some are happy the way it is. But a lot more are really unhappy about the way all is going. Some will stay. Many will leave. And please don´t be rude. Everyone how leaves and not returns is lost Money to FD. And without money this will end soon and not good for us Players. And paintjobs don´t pay real jobs...
So be friendly and fly save
It would do Elite a real favor to shift to one world server. One universe and not all shatterd to thousand pieces. Seperate the online and offline part. Thats doable...
There will be always people how complain about this and that. Thats okay and its the reason we all are here. But this enables FD to keep Elite alive. Without a dramatic change Elite will last 1 or 2 years and then will die off. Many will switch to SC on release. I think they ( SC ) will and have monitored all this closley. And the wont make the errores FD has done. No Content, no living universe, no real multiplayer. I hope to see Elite will survive the next 12 month. But its looks not good for the patient.
Sure some are happy the way it is. But a lot more are really unhappy about the way all is going. Some will stay. Many will leave. And please don´t be rude. Everyone how leaves and not returns is lost Money to FD. And without money this will end soon and not good for us Players. And paintjobs don´t pay real jobs...
So be friendly and fly save
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Are you confusing the most 'enthusiastic' with those that maxed the Seeking Luxuries exploit to rack up crazy amounts of credits and now have A rated Anacondas with tens of millions to spare? I suspect if people played the game in the way it was intended (and looks like it is on the way to being addressed in 1.1 and beyond) - only those who played pretty much 24x7 since pre-GA would be at the level of richness you describe. Most people I suspect (like me) have to do other things in their lives like earning a living and caring for a family etc. and simply cannot give the kind of time needed to get Anaconda-rich.
I think that whether it is an MMO or not is semantics. If 32 players per instance is MMO then I need to redefine my interpretation of 'massive'. However if the background simulation does account for all players, regardless of the instance they are in, and whether solo, group or open, and their actions large and small have an impact in the sim then it does share some characteristics of pure MMOs (although I am not sure any existing MMOs are perfect in this way).
The OP nails it in my opinion in saying that more content, story, challenges and activity is needed soon. I think I am typical of many players who have done a bit of everything, and enjoy it today, but more has to happen to keep the interest up and new players coming on board.
Just to kill the "ED is not a MMO", from Wikipedia, on ED:
Elite: Dangerous is a space adventure, trading, and combat simulator that is the fourth release in the Elite video game series. Piloting a spaceship, the player explores a realistic 1:1 scale open world galaxy based on the real Milky Way, with the gameplay being open-ended. The game is the first in the series to attempt to feature massively multiplayer gameplay, with players' actions affecting the narrative story of the game's persistent universe, while also retaining single player options. It is the sequel to Frontier: First Encounters,[5] the third game in the Elite series, released in 1995.
On MMOs in general:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
So with that out of the way, back to topic. Arguing for/against ED being an MMO misses the point: there are elements to use and problems to avoid from the wider universe of MMOs. I was simply trying to kickstart a discussion about what ED could learn from other MMOs. Personally I think that assassination missions is a funny example, as they are an MMO classic. You have to hunt in 3 systems until you meet a trader who tells you which system the target is in. Then you go to the final system an kill the poor sod. Mission done. Nothing wrong with this, but do three in a row and you probably won't really want to do that mission class again. Kill quests, being one of the core quest types (along fetch quests for example - "trade quests" in ED) exists in many MMOs, and some of them are not boring, because the designers introduced clever twists to them. Learning from this can only make ED better and more fun. That was what my OP was trying to be about
Or you could just quote http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ on this, saying:
Is "Elite: Dangerous" an MMO?
Yes, Elite: Dangerous is an MMO, but with the important addition, that you can choose if you want to meet other players.
The game features a shared persistent galaxy server, where macro effects and events such as economy, society and war status etc are recorded.
The are no multi-player lobbies.
The server transparently creates free roaming sessions (instances) when meeting other players and NPCs within that galaxy based on a perception bubble around you,
that is defined by your scanner/visual range. That means that those instances are not a fixed location in space as in most other MMOs, but they dynamically move around.
The effects of those instances are then stored on the central galaxy server and shared by everybody.
Because the game features very high speed twitch combat and very detailed damage models, this is the most reliable way to do it,
also keep in mind there can be many sessions within a star system and those sessions can dynamically move around,
also because this game uses a 1:1 scale Milky Way galaxy, sessions will typically be spread out much farther away (although most of the action will be within the core systems) and it wouldn't be
immersion breaking as opposed to a space game in a smaller area.
Still, (excuse my language) I know I'm ****ing against the wind here, but I don't think of ED as an MMO.
But, yes I agree with you that adding (meaningful) content and more variety to the missions can only be a good thing, altough I wouldn't take too many lessons from classic MMOs. Specifically not from those MMOs where the progression of the character is one of the main aspects.
Because neither of these are mandatory to be an MMO.
I agree with most of what you say, but I feel I should add that me and my two friends playing are not "hardcore gamers" with no life
We're all married, two of us with kids, and we don't spend our whole weekends playing. But we've been trading quite a bit an hour or two most evenings, working together to find the best trade routes (and we all missed the rares rush I'm afraid). Good trade routes in a Type-9 or Anaconda nets you over 4m per hour. We don't play that much, we just try to play smart with the time we have. And there are a lot of Type-9s and Anacondas around now.
And even more casual players with slowly but surely end up having enough to buy a Type-9 if they want. So "high level play" will become the name of the game for more and more players over time. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with focusing on less revenue generating styles of play, not at all - I've done a bit of exploring too. But FD needs to take into account that both types of player exists, that's all I'm saying. A casual glance at other MMOs and one recognizes this as one of the more common issues with the genre.
The solution is generally more content for a wider range of players. Which is not easy considering that FD is not a massively large developer. Thus I was hoping that people would have good ideas for better and more content that can be put in the game without asking for unrealistic changes that FD won't be able to do in a lifetime. To take a very simple example: why not have some assassination with 3 anacondas that pay 3 times as well. It's not a final not brilliant solution to anything, but it's quick to implement, and would give me something to do once the community goal conflict zones mission dries up. Just a suggestion...
It is extremely rare to have significantly more than 32 players on your screen in other MMOs as well