Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Jaeger]

I don't think you guys understand. Piracy is nescessary to the lifeblood of the game... without bad guys, there are no good guys. Piracy is the lifeblood of bounty hunting. Piracy gives exitement, hatred, anger... piracy is good.

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I really don't know what to say to that. I haven't had that experience at all lately, perhaps you are just getting interdicted by very skilled pilots with A grade high class interdictors?

I know what to say to that, it's a misconception. It's a terrible game because of it.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

I don't think they should remove this AT ALL. Imagine that traders were stuck being interdicted EVERY time. It would be ridiculous. I would be interdicted left and right, forfeiting my goods or getting killed.

No one would do trading, or at least long haul, heavy load trading. Everyone would have to do quasi-trading by equipping cobras. Even then, they won't even stand a chance. So, what is the point?

I am sorry but an escape mechanism is needed.

Ok, first of all, I trade in open, and fully accept the fact that a player pirate might take my stuff, or even kill me. IF he can catch me. Against a pirate who rps it properly and asks for cargo, chances are I'll simply drop the cargo and be ready to evade if he turns into a griefer. If he just flat out shoots, I flat out evade and jump.

I play in a t6 with the best shields I can afford, chaff, heat sink etc. I use fa off and evasive maneuvers to minimise damage. I NEVER submit to pirate interdiction, that is a blatant exploit. I have managed to appease or evade every player I've had contact with. Sometimes I've needed to repair hull damage, but relative to trade income, that's a non-issue.

If you don't want player interaction (which I do, makes trading more exciting than npc grinding combat frankly), play in solo. If you can't handle being pirated even by npcs, play a different game, space is dangerous.

Granted there are some npc pirate bugs that need working out, but given the profit gained from successful trade missions, its is (or should be if you are sensible) very rare that you will have more in your hold than you can afford to lose. Even if you lost over a million on a full hold of palladium, with profit of almost if not more than a million per hour, it is barely a dent in your gameplay.1-2 hours lost, do another hour of runs and move on.

The game play time lost due to a death is actually relatively similar between combat and trading (at low to mid levels) due to their relative incomes.

Though I do think system authorities should respond faster in highly patrolled systems, its hardly broken the way it is, it just means you need to be careful.

If you are trading without being prepared, with no shields, chaff or heatsinks, then you deserve to lose your ship and cargo for being so damn reckless.

 

[Zelos1983]

I think many on here are entirely missing the point.
If you play Open, you are fair game, BUT the game should be fair for both parties, whereas at present it simply doesnt work.

I don't play in Open. I don't care what happens in open.

I still find interdictions annoying. And they are more and more bugged. Just now, I was getting in range with the station when I got interdicted. Even when I pressed J to drop out, nothing happend. ?
Made me loose time again and when I got back in Frameshift-Space, I was 0.4LY away from where I have been - another bug.

BTW, Interdicting empty ships with no bounty on them is NOT piracy.

And: The most dangerous thing that happens is that you get damaged during interdiction, so it is better submitting right away and then boosting away. That way, the shields can take damage (if needed).

 

[kaaldesh]

I'm a trader who now dabbles in Open, and look forward to playing only Open as soon as some fixes are placed for exploits/cheats. I really really look forward to this
From my point of view, we need Pirates. Because Bounty Hunters need Pirates and Traders (in Open) like the thrill

Bottom line, Pirates need a reasonable chance to win, in fact, they should normally "win" - I mean their ship is designed to win battles. Mine is designed to move stuff. My rules cuz I like em

1. Killing a clean player must be massively penalized. Massively. All other rules and all other ideas will fail unless this is done first. It's a deal-breaker. It should take the pirate 20 game hours to recoup 1 clean player murder. Robbery shouldn't be penalized hardly at all.
2. All FSD should have a 2 minute cool-down after pvp interdiction (forget about this for NPC interdiction or it may surpass super-cruise as the worst thing in the game.)
3. If a pirate catches the trader via interdiction mini-game, then the pirate should be able to disable the ship if s/he wins the fight and take cargo - if the trader didn't just offer it. Remember, killing the clean trader should be an absolute disaster for the pirate so s/he only has the incentive to disable the ship without killing the trader and take that glorious booty. All modules should be reparable so the trader can leave after repair, and that trader better have a repair unit!
4. If the trader wins the fight, or can survive long enough to escape, then the trader keeps that glorious booty
The way it is now, pirates are right in saying they can't make squat and it really is much too easy to escape a pirate. They are no threat unless you're sleeping.
However, traders are right in saying if this changes they simply have too much to lose. If I lost my ship, with cargo, it's a 15 million credit hit. One loss. That's 3 hours of game play to recoup. For losing one time. One time out of 1,000 is still 3 hours simply wasted. No way I'd play in Open with that. A pirate loses a much cheaper ship and much less time to recoup.

TLDR: Pirates need to reasonably expect to win most fights without murder; traders need to not lose hours of gameplay for every loss

 

[Vasious]

My two cents on Submit Boost Boost Frameshift

If traders can escape in an unreasonable time for the Pirate
Pirates can escape in an unreasonable time for the Bounty hunter.

Once 1.2 falls, Pirates can target drives and remove the ability to escape, yet trader then can repair them to limp home.
The balancing act will be the cool down on the FSD after submitting to an interdiction.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

I'm a trader who now dabbles in Open, and look forward to playing only Open as soon as some fixes are placed for exploits/cheats. I really really look forward to this
From my point of view, we need Pirates. Because Bounty Hunters need Pirates and Traders (in Open) like the thrill

Bottom line, Pirates need a reasonable chance to win, in fact, they should normally "win" - I mean their ship is designed to win battles. Mine is designed to move stuff. My rules cuz I like em

1. Killing a clean player must be massively penalized. Massively. All other rules and all other ideas will fail unless this is done first. It's a deal-breaker. It should take the pirate 20 game hours to recoup 1 clean player murder. Robbery shouldn't be penalized hardly at all.
2. All FSD should have a 2 minute cool-down after pvp interdiction (forget about this for NPC interdiction or it may surpass super-cruise as the worst thing in the game.)
3. If a pirate catches the trader via interdiction mini-game, then the pirate should be able to disable the ship if s/he wins the fight and take cargo - if the trader didn't just offer it. Remember, killing the clean trader should be an absolute disaster for the pirate so s/he only has the incentive to disable the ship without killing the trader and take that glorious booty. All modules should be reparable so the trader can leave after repair, and that trader better have a repair unit!
4. If the trader wins the fight, or can survive long enough to escape, then the trader keeps that glorious booty
The way it is now, pirates are right in saying they can't make squat and it really is much too easy to escape a pirate. They are no threat unless you're sleeping.
However, traders are right in saying if this changes they simply have too much to lose. If I lost my ship, with cargo, it's a 15 million credit hit. One loss. That's 3 hours of game play to recoup. For losing one time. One time out of 1,000 is still 3 hours simply wasted. No way I'd play in Open with that. A pirate loses a much cheaper ship and much less time to recoup.

TLDR: Pirates need to reasonably expect to win most fights without murder; traders need to not lose hours of gameplay for every loss

How the hell are you losing 15 million? Even 200t of palladium is only a few million! Is it due to an expensive ship? My type 6 has a rebuy barely over 100k... If so that is a large ship balance issue, not a trading/pirate issue, and should be fixed separately (increased income in larger ships or decreased costs)

 

[Ouaisne]

I have an idea.

1) attempting to escape an interdiction is dangerous because it can cause some damage if you fail, but you still maintain control of your systems and can jump out after a cooldown
2) Submitting to an interdiction implies that you're shutting down your FSD and, essentially, giving control over to your captor. Once you've dropped out, you MAY NOT jump out UNLESS the interdictor specifically releases you, OR a 'reboot' of your FSD system happens which will shake control away from the captor.

The problem about having submissions also have a long cooldown, like failed escapes, is that legitimate interdictions, from local police, etc, would still take a long time, even if unnecessary. So, what would happen is if a cop pulls you over, he could scan you quickly, and then immediately release you to be on your way.

If a cop interdicts you and you have illegal goods, you can try and run to avoid the scan, but you won't be able to escape immediately, thus encouraging people to try and escape interdictions

If a pirate interdicts you, submitting doesn't give you a COMBAT advantage, simply because the pirate can hold you there for AT LEAST as long as you'd be stuck there if you failed an interdiction. It encourages players to try and escape interdiction.

Submitting shouldn't be used to escape. Submitting should be used when you want to try to make a deal, or give in to demands. You're SUBMITTING after all.

I submit to all interdictions as I need the fighting practice and it livens things up a bit and in the last week I have been annoyed at least 4 times by the interdictor FSDing out when he is down to about 20% and realises he is not going to win. This is WRONG. So if commanders want to change the rules I want one that says interdictors can't chicken out.

 

[Tryst]

I submit to all interdictions as I need the fighting practice and it livens things up a bit and in the last week I have been annoyed at least 4 times by the interdictor FSDing out when he is down to about 20% and realises he is not going to win. This is WRONG. So if commanders want to change the rules I want one that says interdictors can't chicken out.

I'm with you there. First week I played in open, I had a CMDR interdict me in my Adder. Got him down to 30% and he chickened out so I never got the bounty on him to pay for the damage he'd done to my ship.
Decided to play solo after that, it was costing me too much to fight back against cowards.

 

[Herik]

Don't expect any sympathy from the community, they will just call you names like griefer or psychopath and say that Elite is not a PVP game even in open play. I've not even logged in for several days now because it is just no fun. More than half my targets vanish into the log-off void.

I too am in a fast Cobra maxing at 453m/s boost. I tried Bounty Hunting but unless you spend the time getting a much better ship then it's too costly and fighting the NPC's is like watching paint dry it's so mundane and easy.

Well; I can't agree with you here. Since Sarah Jane Avory updated NPC capabilities; fighting NPC's is hardly mundane and easy.

 

[Indy Original]

I'm a trader who now dabbles in Open, and look forward to playing only Open as soon as some fixes are placed for exploits/cheats. I really really look forward to this
From my point of view, we need Pirates. Because Bounty Hunters need Pirates and Traders (in Open) like the thrill

Bottom line, Pirates need a reasonable chance to win, in fact, they should normally "win" - I mean their ship is designed to win battles. Mine is designed to move stuff. My rules cuz I like em

1. Killing a clean player must be massively penalized. Massively. All other rules and all other ideas will fail unless this is done first. It's a deal-breaker. It should take the pirate 20 game hours to recoup 1 clean player murder. Robbery shouldn't be penalized hardly at all.
2. All FSD should have a 2 minute cool-down after pvp interdiction (forget about this for NPC interdiction or it may surpass super-cruise as the worst thing in the game.)
3. If a pirate catches the trader via interdiction mini-game, then the pirate should be able to disable the ship if s/he wins the fight and take cargo - if the trader didn't just offer it. Remember, killing the clean trader should be an absolute disaster for the pirate so s/he only has the incentive to disable the ship without killing the trader and take that glorious booty. All modules should be reparable so the trader can leave after repair, and that trader better have a repair unit!
4. If the trader wins the fight, or can survive long enough to escape, then the trader keeps that glorious booty
The way it is now, pirates are right in saying they can't make squat and it really is much too easy to escape a pirate. They are no threat unless you're sleeping.
However, traders are right in saying if this changes they simply have too much to lose. If I lost my ship, with cargo, it's a 15 million credit hit. One loss. That's 3 hours of game play to recoup. For losing one time. One time out of 1,000 is still 3 hours simply wasted. No way I'd play in Open with that. A pirate loses a much cheaper ship and much less time to recoup.

TLDR: Pirates need to reasonably expect to win most fights without murder; traders need to not lose hours of gameplay for every loss

This is exactly right - and I can only assume that this is exactly what Frontier intend to do, because it's so obvious... how could they not do it? Seriously Kaaldesh, you couldn't have put it more succinctly.

And Cmdr Beeston, the reason it costs him 15 million is because he's probably flying a Lakon Type 9, which has a huge rebuy cost if it gets destroyed (and of course, it carries more cargo too, so getting blown up means you lose 400 tons of palladium, not 100 tons). But that doesn't require any ship re-balancing, it just needs a more serious penalty for killing clean players, as Kaaldesh describes, so that traders hardly ever get completely destroyed.

 

[drpaul]

How the hell are you losing 15 million? Even 200t of palladium is only a few million! Is it due to an expensive ship? My type 6 has a rebuy barely over 100k... If so that is a large ship balance issue, not a trading/pirate issue, and should be fixed separately (increased income in larger ships or decreased costs)

Any mechanism that allows for successful pirating will be abused by griefers and make the game unplayable unless you are in the pew pew crowd. Ultimately all traders will abandon open because it won't be fun. Pirates do not interdict unless they have the advantage and expect to win the fight. For most players, how fun do you think it is to be in a situation not of your choosing with another player who has the total advantage and in control of the encounter??

 

[Tiwaz]

Let me get this straight...
OP attacked trader, got surprised and trader got away. He chased trader and TWICE got shields of trader down...

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Clearly pirates CAN and will get shields down with existing system but people are here crying how it is too hard. What is too hard? HE GOT SHIELDS DOWN! He was able to use time to cause 10-20% damage!

He had all the time in the world to fire some limpets to get the goodies and let trader go on their merry way without their cargo. Apparently now traders have to be nerfed to point where they cannot just be reliably robbed by determined pirate but also always murdered without hope of escape.

And about how OP should have been able to do "more" in his souped out Cobra... Who here can say if TRADER did not fly with best possible systems with full pips on shields and engines? In fact, quite likely he did since he survived! But that is apparently irrelevant and trader should autolose always.

 

[Distance]

Let me get this straight...
OP attacked trader, got surprised and trader got away. He chased trader and TWICE got shields of trader down...


WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Clearly pirates CAN and will get shields down with existing system but people are here crying how it is too hard. What is too hard? HE GOT SHIELDS DOWN! He was able to use time to cause 10-20% damage!

He had all the time in the world to fire some limpets to get the goodies and let trader go on their merry way without their cargo. Apparently now traders have to be nerfed to point where they cannot just be reliably robbed by determined pirate but also always murdered without hope of escape.

And about how OP should have been able to do "more" in his souped out Cobra... Who here can say if TRADER did not fly with best possible systems with full pips on shields and engines? In fact, quite likely he did since he survived! But that is apparently irrelevant and trader should autolose always.

With a thread this big it's been explained many times before. It's helpful to actually read or at least skim it before commenting.

 

[figola]

Figola's Escort Wing Services LLC.

Currently based at Lave we at Figolas offer the modern trader an option. No longer will you be alone in the galaxy when you hire at Figolas.

Shipping 440Ts of gold in a type 9, why not bring along a battle wing of Connies.

Call today for intro rates starting at 5%

 

[MajorStewie]

It wasn't. FD clearly said, using submission to escape faster is a unintended and unwanted use of the mechanics, and will be fixed.

sounds like FD is on the pirate's side with this one. traders will have to overcome the challenge of not being able to use this unintended use of game mechanics instead of the pirates having to overcome traders using it.
/thread

 

[uberdude]

Figola's Escort Wing Services LLC.

Currently based at Lave we at Figolas offer the modern trader an option. No longer will you be alone in the galaxy when you hire at Figolas.

Shipping 440Ts of gold in a type 9, why not bring along a battle wing of Connies.



Call today for intro rates starting at 5%

This.. I'd do this. .. Me in a type 9 escorted by condas ... Lulz, I'd do it just for the sight of it

 

[Fanta]

Well me as mainly trader so far, like chance to escape pirates as you are, t7 full of cargo 3 millions worth, and insurance of 1.3 millions, so imagine how much u gets for interdicting me or traders like I am, and how much we would lose if you can gets free kills from developers if they change what you complaining for.

Or imagine different situation , you are pirate with feds bounty of 10 millions and you flaying in some transport, you gets interdicted by elite fighter cmdr , I doubt you going to fight, you would use same tactic to not give free 10 mills to someone.

 

[Pheyes]

Yeah I cant wait until they fix this so those pirates in there imperial Clippers cant jump away straight away.

 

[Rocktapus]

A single shot take down mechanic would probably clean this up. Needs 1.2 though.

Essentially - weapons spot taken up by a 1x mass effect bomb like the bigger ships trigger. But locks down pirate and trader. Also this can be a black market outfitting item..

Trader can still run but FSD takes longer to spin up.

However trader needs a way to signal cops/other players into the warp bubble.. Or make it stick out easily on system view and attract others easily.

Net effect lowers lethality of pirates (less guns). Gives them a chance to grab the trader, though the trader can still outrun. Stops the damage from getting interdicted but it's not quite the instant out it is now.

Also a fast pirate (grab cargo and run) instead of a murderer makes themselves less of a target for bounty hunters

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I'm a trader who now dabbles in Open, and look forward to playing only Open as soon as some fixes are placed for exploits/cheats. I really really look forward to this
From my point of view, we need Pirates. Because Bounty Hunters need Pirates and Traders (in Open) like the thrill

Bottom line, Pirates need a reasonable chance to win, in fact, they should normally "win" - I mean their ship is designed to win battles. Mine is designed to move stuff. My rules cuz I like em

1. Killing a clean player must be massively penalized. Massively. All other rules and all other ideas will fail unless this is done first. It's a deal-breaker. It should take the pirate 20 game hours to recoup 1 clean player murder. Robbery shouldn't be penalized hardly at all.
2. All FSD should have a 2 minute cool-down after pvp interdiction (forget about this for NPC interdiction or it may surpass super-cruise as the worst thing in the game.)
3. If a pirate catches the trader via interdiction mini-game, then the pirate should be able to disable the ship if s/he wins the fight and take cargo - if the trader didn't just offer it. Remember, killing the clean trader should be an absolute disaster for the pirate so s/he only has the incentive to disable the ship without killing the trader and take that glorious booty. All modules should be reparable so the trader can leave after repair, and that trader better have a repair unit!
4. If the trader wins the fight, or can survive long enough to escape, then the trader keeps that glorious booty
The way it is now, pirates are right in saying they can't make squat and it really is much too easy to escape a pirate. They are no threat unless you're sleeping.
However, traders are right in saying if this changes they simply have too much to lose. If I lost my ship, with cargo, it's a 15 million credit hit. One loss. That's 3 hours of game play to recoup. For losing one time. One time out of 1,000 is still 3 hours simply wasted. No way I'd play in Open with that. A pirate loses a much cheaper ship and much less time to recoup.

TLDR: Pirates need to reasonably expect to win most fights without murder; traders need to not lose hours of gameplay for every loss

Couldn't have put it any better. I definitely feel like there needs to be more disincentives for murder. 6,000cr is nothing to most players.

I actually think that 1 2minute fsd cooldown after interdiction would massively reduce murder: I often ended up killing a fleeing target because I know it's so easy to get away in my Cobra (less so in an Asp due to masslock).

As would more options for disabling enemy ships. Just some way of immobilizing the enemy (as will happen when shooting drives is no longer murder) means that extraction of booty by force rather than threats becomes more viable.

Of course, the universal cargo marking being implemented might stop this from happening....