Victims of Piracy Support Group

[Executive]

He didn't steal anything, in fact, he actually gave him the gift of interaction

While you said that with a grain of humor, you are actually absolutely correct.
I am thinking about 'open trading' in the near future. Last time I traded was in beta, burned me out.

To be honest, I hope for the thrill of a human interdiction by a real pirate*, because that was one reason I bought the game.
Piracy can be great fun, for both sides, if certain things are kept in mind.

For me personally there is pretty much just one simple rule when it comes to any kind of PvP in games:
Don't ruin the other player's day.

Simple as that.
For example, pirating with a Viper, I wouldn't tell my victim to drop all he has... I just take what I need and be on my way, no harm done.
This hardly will ruin his day and if - he is a hopeless tryhard that belongs in solo anyways.
Also, wouldn't interdict some poor Sidey as well. A hauler though indeed. Could be someone trying to sneak rares past the eyes of hungry pirates

The main problems with piracy in Elite are the following:

1. Open/Solo interchangeable
Every mark could simply drop out and go solo to evade conflict, which we don't have to debate about how lame it is, I hope?

2. People are silly/game design choices
Let's face it, this topic stands and falls with its players.
While there are some pirates who understand what piracy means and is, so many do not and just go gung-ho on every hollow symbol on their scanner.
Right on, Commander... -.-

Then, on the other side, we have anti-immersive and unrealistic tryhar... err 'traders' who rather DIE instead of sharing 8 tons of cargo because they know:
There are zero consequences in 'Elite: Lollipops for Everyone' anyways.

I can hardly blame them, actually, and instead blame Braben and the gang for designing it with so many flaws, I still hope to see being eradicated.

Things that would help?
- Drastically raising the bounty for murdering players, start by adding a 0 at the end, this would be a start.
- Drastically raising the rebuy costs of ships, dying needs to have consequences other than "oh no, now I need to start from that spaceport again".

That way, pirates - to make any profit - would have to try everything NOT to kill their target - after all, they want the cargo, not the traders life - bad for business.
Traders on the other hand might now actually consider stopping and following the orders of an armed to the teeth twice-as-fast combat vessel that can really cost them a lot.

Granted, it might not be a perfect solution, maybe none at all.
But I feel it would still be better - and worth a try - rather than keeping the current unimmersive and flawed system.

 

[Loetmichel]

Sorry, but open does mean PvP killer heaven. It's supposed to work that way. If you don't like it, use solo or group mode.

And no, I don't play in open. Not what I want out of my game time. I imagine that open will have nothing but PvP players soon, and they can have it out with each other, which is how the game design is intended.

No point in complaining about other players attacking you, when you are playing in a mode that allows just that.

Yeah, i think that will be the consequence of this. Its just sad that a minority of [cant say that here] are able to turn the most interesting mode into a mindless slaugter. and wait for it they will come and state that
solo HAS to be shut down so everybody is to be forced to open because they have no easy targets left.
As i said numerous times now: Personally i have no problem with the occasional Pirate. I do kill them more often than get killed tho. Its just sad IN MY OPINION (thats what IMO stands for) that those near minded
people cant think of other ways to interact with other players than stupid PewPew. And i dont take "gimme al your cargo" and start shooting 5 secs later any interaction, just a badly disguised ganker there, not someone
who wants real interaction at all.

To Executive: i wont even start to qoutoe you. just one thing: Arrogance is your second name, isnt it? where do you get the imagination that you speak for all of elite community?
and you DO know what IMO means? where did i FORCE anything on others?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

So you don't believe me? Ah well.

I'll give you a challenge. Try flying a T9 filled with gold to and from Leesti. Tell me how you hold up. I'll check in on this thread later.

Fly safe

cherry pick your data much?

You pick the most pirate infected region of space and the system there that a pirate group operates in. Not to mention, the pirate magnet type 9. All your little test will prove is leesti is dangerous.

 

[kapitankev]

With regard to pirates opening fire with very little notice......it's hard to tell sometimes if your target has stopped or is still running esp if he's already got some distance on you.

When I'm pirating I have a reset phrase setup on voice attack to demand cargo, the new menu makes it a pain to use but it's quicker than typing. Seconds count.

I'd highly recommend traders have a similar message bound to a key press or voice command along the lines of "I surrender don't fire" that'd make it nice and clear you're stopping and save you some hull. Or you could use it as a ruse and keep boosting if you're the cheeky sort.

Note to FD...please implement preset chat phrases into the game. They should be sent to the targeted player at the press of a key, no comms menu required.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

cherry pick your data much?

You pick the most pirate infected region of space and the system there that a pirate group operates in. Not to mention, the pirate magnet type 9. All your little test will prove is leesti is dangerous.

And the guy above him saying open is a "mindless slaughter". Seriously, in Elite, probably one of the most cuddly wuddly sandbox games on the market

 

[Loetmichel]

The main problems with piracy in Elite are the following:

1. Open/Solo interchangeable
Every mark could simply drop out and go solo to evade conflict, which we don't have to debate about how lame it is, I hope?

2. People are silly/game design choices
Let's face it, this topic stands and falls with its players.
While there are some pirates who understand what piracy means and is, so many do not and just go gung-ho on every hollow symbol on their scanner.
Right on, Commander... -.-

Then, on the other side, we have anti-immersive and unrealistic tryhar... err 'traders' who rather DIE instead of sharing 8 tons of cargo because they know:
There are zero consequences in 'Elite: Lollipops for Everyone' anyways.

I can hardly blame them, actually, and instead blame Braben and the gang for designing it with so many flaws, I still hope to see being eradicated.

Things that would help?
- Drastically raising the bounty for murdering players, start by adding a 0 at the end, this would be a start.
- Drastically raising the rebuy costs of ships, dying needs to have consequences other than "oh no, now I need to start from that spaceport again".

That way, pirates - to make any profit - would have to try everything NOT to kill their target - after all, they want the cargo, not the traders life - bad for business.
Traders on the other hand might now actually consider stopping and following the orders of an armed to the teeth twice-as-fast combat vessel that can really cost them a lot.

Ups, i stand corrected. You can actually reason. I thought from your earlier post that you just were an arrogant [whatever].
So: Aplogies to get you wrong. Still i didnt like your tone there.

(exept for the first point: as long as solo and open are interchangeable its perfectly viable to swich to solo if you have no need vor PVP. As viable as being a proper pirate in open.)

 

[Derath]

So you don't believe me? Ah well.

I'll give you a challenge. Try flying a T9 filled with gold to and from Leesti. Tell me how you hold up. I'll check in on this thread later.

Fly safe

I'll give you a challenge, go trade 100 ly in any direction from Leesti and let me know if you even see another player. (don't use thrudds)

 

[Executive]

Ups, i stand corrected. You can actually reason. I thought from your earlier post that you just were an arrogant [whatever].
So: Aplogies to get you wrong. Still i didnt like your tone there.

Oh, no worries, I'm not here to care if people like me or not, what matters is the exchange of opinions to hopefully make the game better.
At least that is why I'm here.

Also: Rep to you because you admitted you've been wrong. So rare on the interwebz...

 

[Anopheles]

That's quite a warped perspective though. Blaming the victim of a crime for being a victim is cruel, whether it's a game or not.

I'm quite empathetic in everything but pixels. Although I try to hold back the tears if I murder your queen in chess.

 

[Bostlabs]

Yes. You have shown me the error of my ways. I must cut my engine, open the cargo doors, drop my pants and assume the position over the command console, and say thank you very much sir when the lovely pirate has finished with me. I must comply without complaint I must comply without complaint I must comply without complaint I must comply without complaint.

ok now I have to clean my screen. LOL

 

[Loetmichel]

I'll give you a challenge, go trade 100 ly in any direction from Leesti and let me know if you even see another player. (don't use thrudds)

I would exclude the LHS3447 direction, its near enough to 100ly that you may run into heaps of sideys

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And the guy above him saying open is a "mindless slaughter". Seriously, in Elite, probably one of the most cuddly wuddly sandbox games on the market

I could rephrase that for you into "... Its just sad that a minority of [cant say that here] seem to be able to turn the most interesting mode into a mindless slaugter, especially at the places where you would meet other
goodminded players."

Does that clarify it?

 

[gregoreuo]

Hint :
When running, 4 Pips ENG does nothing for you - it's your Afterburner that does all the work and puts/mostly keeps you well outside the Area you could achieve with 4 Pips full Throttle.

Rather run with 4 Pips SYS and 2 Pips ENG instead, if your Power Distributor is A-Grade as it should.




If you need every inch of speed, at best make it a 3:3 distribution.

Otherwise, you'll lose tons of Shield strength with actually little benefit for your speed.

If you encounter a ship of similar speed as yours :
Turn immediately towards it and afterburn right past it...

Your opponent will have to do a 180 turn and that'll give you your first critical distance advantage that'll take a while to deplete even in a Clipper.
Adding Chaff against the Clipper's Class 3 Gimbals (which it needs to hit anything due to hardpoint placement) will maximize your survival chances drastically, especially when combining it with 4 Pips SYS.

When in SuperCuise again - do NOT immediately continue flying into the direction you left normal space... Otherwise, your interdictor will appear 0.5Ls right behind you within 20sec or less.
Either make an immediate 180 turn and travel a few seconds (waiting for your Interdictor to do the same) or drop right out of SC again within a split second after entering it.
Your interdictor will likely run @ max throttle and zoom right by the new low energy FSD wake you created a mere 30-50km away - making it impossible to interdict you again within no time at all.

Alone and back in normal space (boosting away w/ 90deg angle-off to your jump-in), you can make the decision to wait it out there or Hyperjump to safety and maybe return a while later.
If you're the sneaky/funny type - after entering normal space again, boost away, set FA off, turn around and start running cold... Just to see your interdictor jump into the location looking for you 5km away and virtually no chance to find you

+ 1 Very good tips here!

 

[Hempstead]

Of course the 1.2 already allows this kind of interaction anyway, I'm just hoping it will be developed more. If its reinforced by the game perhaps it might even bring about the rise of combat escort services from other players..

Why would I pay a player wing to show them where my secret trade routes are? NPC escort wing, sure... they ain't gonna tell anybody, assuming FDEV doesn't code the NPC escort wing to blurt out my location (highly unlike they would do that). But any human & Harry I don't know? Thanks, but no thanks!

If you are harvesting routes that are public knowledge, like the ones published on some trade tools, that might work. But remember, just because a system is listed in some trade database doesn't mean I can't effectively harvest it. It all boils down to how you compose the the trade routes. Hiring a player escort wing will reveal it all to them, and there is no guarantee that they won't blurt it out in public, intentionally or unintentionally, or even compete with you on the limited resources, or worse turn rogue and pirate you. gank you, grief you. Oh, well, blurting it out in public is the worst.

If you fancy running such an "escort service", you will need to overcome such trust issue first. You are just another dude/gal on the Internet.... I don't trust you, so I you!

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

Good try.

Sorry but I pop in from time to time, so that dog don't hunt.

I do understand your wish to repopulate open though. Good luck.

Lol! I've played open since Beta, I've neither killed a commander nor have I been killed by one. I have sat in stations chatting to random though about ships and routes and good places to call home. Oooo, scary!

 

[Exluna]

Why would I pay a player wing to show them where my secret trade routes are? NPC escort wing, sure... they ain't gonna tell anybody, assuming FDEV doesn't code the NPC escort wing to blurt out my location (highly unlike they would do that). But any human & Harry I don't know? Thanks, but no thanks!

If you are harvesting routes that are public knowledge, like the ones published on some trade tools, that might work. But remember, just because a system is listed in some trade database doesn't mean I can't effectively harvest it. It all boils down to how you compose the the trade routes. Hiring a player escort wing will reveal it all to them, and there is no guarantee that they won't blurt it out in public, intentionally or unintentionally, or even compete with you on the limited resources, or worse turn rogue and pirate you. gank you, grief you. Oh, well, blurting it out in public is the worst.

If you fancy running such an "escort service", you will need to overcome such trust issue first. You are just another dude/gal on the Internet.... I don't trust you, so I you!

There's more than enough trade routes out there to sustain the community I reckon. You could wander out to the rim and still find traffic. So... Bleh. They find out the trade route. Are they willing to go all the way out there? Besides, if they decided to start using your route that would mean they'd have to TRADE, which seems to be kryptonite to players who want PvP action.

Additionally, I wouldn't hire an escort wing to fly me around in the back of beyond. I'd hire them to fly me around the populated areas. Leesti, Lave ect. Assuming I want that kind of player interaction. Alternatively though, lets say you're right, and you have a few secretive trade routes that you are convinced that no else knows about, and you want to keep untainted. Here's another idea.

Two new kinds of missions, targeted and players in wings or individual players alike.

1a - Timed mission, repeatable. Transport the federal/imperial/alliance payroll. Payment based on capacity of the cargo vessel, payable to all members of a wing. Wing cannot be disbanded till time limit is met or mission is abandoned/all ships destroyed in the wing.

2a- Steal the federal/imperial/alliance payroll. Issued from Anarchy systems. Expect heavy resistance, recommend stealth approach or wing support. Payment based on how much is stolen, mission failure on ship destruction.

No one is risking their own credits, just their ships. Bigger the ship, bigger the reward. Take the risk if you want to payout, for both sides. Of course for this to work FD has to make the cargo scoop more intuitive than it is. Nothing like raiding a payroll convoy then having to stop for 20 minutes to pick up the cargo, that would be SO MUCH FUN. They'd have to advertise these missions as well. On Galnet perhaps? It would ensure traders and pirates alike would flock to it to take part. There should also be a chance that an NPC pirate wing will pick up on it as well. Fight the other players, and fight the NPCs fighting you and the other players.

 

[rmhepton]

I can totally relate to the OP's post as I have had a similar experience - was angry about it for days but in the end my view changed .. I remembered the surge if adrenalin I got when the interdicted message came up..my fumbled attempts at trying to escape..heart racing. Not many games can do that. I learnt from the experience and I will not be in such a fumbled state next time.

 

[TheoC]

Just wanted to say, I always find the (incorrect) use of 'tryhard' as an insult particularly hilarious.

Ontopic, the one time I actually got pirated in my T7, the guy scanned me, saw I was full up on tobacco and let me go. I make as much on that route running tobacco as I do most other superconductor/gold/palladium routes, but I guess tobacco isn't worth hauling if you're a pirate... Just another thought on how to protect yourself...

To be fair to him, if he had actually demanded cargo I probably would have taken my chances running. Given the circumstances (type 7 vs. kitted out clipper) It's the most "payback" I would have been able to get anytime soon.

Yes, I would rather lose 2hrs and you gain nothing (or even get a small bounty for killing me) than "only" lose 1hr and you gain something. If I don't get to complain for getting pirated because "it's in the game", pirates don't get to complain for traders who would rather give them a bounty than their cargo.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Was it me? I use a cargo scanner, and I'm CMDR Ralof. It probably wasn't me, but, was it?

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Just wanted to say, I always find the (incorrect) use of 'tryhard' as an insult particularly hilarious.

Ontopic, the one time I actually got pirated in my T7, the guy scanned me, saw I was full up on tobacco and let me go. I make as much on that route running tobacco as I do most other superconductor/gold/palladium routes, but I guess tobacco isn't worth hauling if you're a pirate... Just another thought on how to protect yourself...

To be fair to him, if he had actually demanded cargo I probably would have taken my chances running. Given the circumstances (type 7 vs. kitted out clipper) It's the most "payback" I would have been able to get anytime soon.

Yes, I would rather lose 2hrs and you gain nothing (or even get a small bounty for killing me) than "only" lose 1hr and you gain something. If I don't get to complain for getting pirated because "it's in the game", pirates don't get to complain for traders who would rather give them a bounty than their cargo.

So you would rather die than give up your cargo? Put yourself in the seat of a real pilot, not some guy in front of a monitor. When you would rather die than give up cargo, you absolutely KILL the immersion for pirates, which is a rather (chat filter) thing to do. If it's all about amassing Cr, fine, go play in Solo mode. I don't get why you even tried Open Play.

 

[Globusdiablo]

Ok let me rephrase, unless you're stupid enough to fly around Lave and the surrounding areas in a T9 open is devoid of PvP players.

Happy now?

cherry pick your data much?

You pick the most pirate infected region of space and the system there that a pirate group operates in. Not to mention, the pirate magnet type 9. All your little test will prove is leesti is dangerous.

Lol! I've played open since Beta, I've neither killed a commander nor have I been killed by one. I have sat in stations chatting to random though about ships and routes and good places to call home. Oooo, scary!

Thank you for proving my point guys.

So if I don't play open like you say I should, there's something wrong with me? Sheesh. You just reminded me why open is such a drag.

I played in open up until I had myself a T7, at which point the constant interdictions and random kills at ports became unbearable, and I moved to Mobius group. The perfect group for my play style.

Pirates blaming traders for not playing in open so they can get shot at and robbed. Aw...

Listen buddies. Keep your little frag fest in open, ok. It must be much more fun and challenging for you anyway, when you have PvP focused commanders to play with. No honour in shooting up a T9, is there?...

Have fun! Byeeee!

 

[Leper Messiah]

Surely the main problem with open are the murderers/gankers/psychos? If the game had proper serious repercussions for mindlessly killing another player then the proper role playing can be done with fun for both sides?

Although I must admit I find it a bit ...well, dodgy for a game to promote unlawful actions towards people just trying to be lawful. Can you imagine the outcry of an online Sims game that let people rob others and even murder..or worse? I fully realise that the game lore is full of it, but when it gets into multiplayer things get a little bit TOO personal.

Being a pirate against NPCs is all well and good and the game should do more with regards to that, how about the game has regular NPC cargo convoys of VERY rare and expensive items for Pirates to go after? And have it scaled like signal sources so a weak one will have 1-2 unescorted trade ships, medium will have 2-4 and one escort and strong could have 4-5 with 4-5 escorts? If the game makes it more financially rewarding for players to target NPCs then that's a no brainer surely.

Personally I hope to see the devs work on making piracy more interesting regarding the NPC "targets" for player pirate.