Lets test this persistent universe and see if FD are true to their word.

[SirFreddie]

Can you name and shame for a legitimate manoeuvre?

Rhetorical question, your moral high ground appears to be built on a swampy midden.

You are 'Super Troll' go get your rewards... You post thousands upon thousands of words, nay walls of text and justify it by saying you think we should be allied to the Alliance. Go post that on the Fed thread.

You are a mercenary plain and simple.

But even more you are a Troll.

I expect another page of 'nothing new' from you, because you are a self serving hypocritical troll...

....and all the while you're typing we're getting on with what we have to do, like we've always done. Feel free to suggest this to your new found Fed friends, or don't they listen to verbose Alliance mercenaries?

 

[Cula-Ta]

I would like to post as an outsider.
I remember reading the early parts of this thread whilst on the train to work and was pretty excited about what was happening, sadly I was a long way away struggling to earn some credits and didn't get involved early doors (nor since).
I have however picked up on the last few pages and its somewhat embarrassing the digs that have been going on between Jeeves and the others.
This is how I see it as an outsider who had a passing interest and have seen and read the various Galnet reports.
1st The Crimson state guys were trying to test the background sim to see if it was up to scratch. It wasn't and lessons have been learned and fixes implemented. They should be applauded for their endeavors.
2nd I'm sure the Crimson State didn't believe the Federation wouldn't call in the heavies after a system tried to leave their power base, that would send out the wrong message as far as the Feds are concerned. If nothing happened in response it would prove the background was worse than imagined. The fact that lots of players support the Federation model and decided to get involved makes sense also, the background test should also be able to handle this. It would appear more lessons have been learned with the player battles and the reported failings. This can only be a good thing. (I'm taling about the battleship camping I read so much about). Therefore both sides should be applauded for their efforts and hopefully FD are taking note (which I'm sure they are).
3rd The differences of opinion have lead to slagging of a personal nature and it shouldn't have. Accept that you have different opinions and just get on with it. Accept that one group are trying to achieve something and that others will want to stop them because it doesn't fit with their ideals. I want a more realistic Verse and you are both helping to make it so. I applaud all your efforts. Keep the slagging to IC and share a beer OC, after you both love this game and are both helping to make it better. I for one appreciate all your efforts.

Just my two pennies worth. There was more I wanted to say but that'll do, don't want to bore the pants off you all.
Cula-Ta (Dean)

 

[Jeeves]

Thats the gaelic way of spelling it, yeah - in Anglo traditions they usually spell it Beltane - only in the fluffy-bunny US pagan community have I ever seen the horrible hybrid. As for him going on about nobody having roots in the old ways any more, I nearly snorted my beer over my keyboard and HOTAS.

It's true though. The old ways were heavily suppressed by both Catholics and Protestants. There have probably been points where the only knowledge of the practices existed in books. People who are tied to the traditions today often remark about how little they know from the old ways. That's sort of the reason you have things like Wicca coming in to make their own stuff up.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I would like to post as an outsider.
I remember reading the early parts of this thread whilst on the train to work and was pretty excited about what was happening, sadly I was a long way away struggling to earn some credits and didn't get involved early doors (nor since).
I have however picked up on the last few pages and its somewhat embarrassing the digs that have been going on between Jeeves and the others.
This is how I see it as an outsider who had a passing interest and have seen and read the various Galnet reports.
1st The Crimson state guys were trying to test the background sim to see if it was up to scratch. It wasn't and lessons have been learned and fixes implemented. They should be applauded for their endeavors.
2nd I'm sure the Crimson State didn't believe the Federation wouldn't call in the heavies after a system tried to leave their power base, that would send out the wrong message as far as the Feds are concerned. If nothing happened in response it would prove the background was worse than imagined. The fact that lots of players support the Federation model and decided to get involved makes sense also, the background test should also be able to handle this. It would appear more lessons have been learned with the player battles and the reported failings. This can only be a good thing. (I'm taling about the battleship camping I read so much about). Therefore both sides should be applauded for their efforts and hopefully FD are taking note (which I'm sure they are).
3rd The differences of opinion have lead to slagging of a personal nature and it shouldn't have. Accept that you have different opinions and just get on with it. Accept that one group are trying to achieve something and that others will want to stop them because it doesn't fit with their ideals. I want a more realistic Verse and you are both helping to make it so. I applaud all your efforts. Keep the slagging to IC and share a beer OC, after you both love this game and are both helping to make it better. I for one appreciate all your efforts.

Just my two pennies worth. There was more I wanted to say but that'll do, don't want to bore the pants off you all.
Cula-Ta (Dean)

I like this guy

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Thats the gaelic way of spelling it, yeah - in Anglo traditions they usually spell it Beltane - only in the fluffy-bunny US pagan community have I ever seen the horrible hybrid. As for him going on about nobody having roots in the old ways any more, I nearly snorted my beer over my keyboard and HOTAS.

As a Scottish American, I apologize for this guy. Not all Americans think this way. I don't think he realizes that a large percentage (probably the largest) of the player base are Europeans who have a much better idea of what their cultural history is than he does.

Jeeves, I suggest you step back and relax a bit. I realize you're just being passionate but you've gone a bit far and are actually beginning to seriously offend these folks.

 

[Alvatore]

As a Scottish American, I apologize for this guy. Not all Americans think this way. I don't think he realizes that a large percentage (probably the largest) of the player base are Europeans who have a much better idea of what their cultural history is than he does.

Jeeves, I suggest you step back and relax a bit. I realize you're just being passionate but you've gone a bit far and are actually beginning to seriously offend these folks.

As an American, I wish we had a cultural history. That, however, is off-topic. Can we get back on-topic please?

 

[Jeeves]

Can you name and shame for a legitimate manoeuvre?

Rhetorical question, your moral high ground appears to be built on a swampy midden.

You are 'Super Troll' go get your rewards... You post thousands upon thousands of words, nay walls of text and justify it by saying you think we should be allied to the Alliance. Go post that on the Fed thread.

You are a mercenary plain and simple.

But even more you are a Troll.

I expect another page of 'nothing new' from you, because you are a self serving hypocritical troll...

....and all the while you're typing we're getting on with what we have to do, like we've always done. Feel free to suggest this to your new found Fed friends, or don't they listen to verbose Alliance mercenaries?

What's the point in sharing a thought it your thought isn't complete? It doesn't help me to leave hanging logic and false assumptions by not clarifying. I'm sorry that it's wordy for your taste, but your lack of explanation hasn't had me convinced by your arguments, so why would I go the same route you do?

You have to understand, I both recognize that your group has done a lot of meaningful work, and I respect it. I don't see things going well in the long run for your group, because obviously you don't have the numbers. If this fight keeps going on, eventually, I think you will lose, through sheer numbers ground out by Feds.

I can't bring myself to support the CSG in its current state, let me have my roleplay reasons. In a video game they're completely valid. I have sympathy for the fact that you're outnumbered in the long term. I proposed literally the only idea that would get me supporting the CSG, and I also think it would attract many other players as well, if successful.

You guys can do whatever you want with it, but it's usually an unwise idea to discount a concept just because you don't happen to like the person that it's coming from.

So far, not a single one of you has even considered the idea of reaching out to the Alliance in some way. But if you were successful (and how hard can it really be?) you would be an independent system, but also be supported by all the pilots who fight for the Alliance.

Don't discount this just because you don't happen to like me. That would be a very unwise thing to do. Your group would heavily benefit from this kind of support. It is worth it for you to consider it, particularly if there is more fighting to be done over the Lugh system.

 

[Jeeves]

As a Scottish American, I apologize for this guy. Not all Americans think this way. I don't think he realizes that a large percentage (probably the largest) of the player base are Europeans who have a much better idea of what their cultural history is than he does.

Jeeves, I suggest you step back and relax a bit. I realize you're just being passionate but you've gone a bit far and are actually beginning to seriously offend these folks.

That's certainly not intended, I have a great deal of respect for the old ways, hopefully you noticed a twinge of sadness and longing for these traditions to have been remembered in their completeness. That bums me out quite a bit. But this isn't the first tribal faith that has changed over time. Judaism has seen some major cultural shifts within it about the observance of traditions, and what everything means. Some of these things have had people absolutely spinning in their graves, particularly if you were Orthodox and looking at Reform Judaism. But, like the Neo-pagan rites spawned off of the old rites, people can, and should be respected for at least trying to keep the spirit, even if they don't remember how it was done anymore.

I'm sure everybody could agree with that. Realistically I shouldn't even be dissing Wicca (and nobody should) because provided its meaningful for someone else's life, and it makes people think to the old ways, then it's in the right intention.

 

[Brindarm]

Hey guys, I know you're all pretty worked up about who's right about what and all that, but I don't appreciate having to trawl through pages of discussion on stuff that isn't strictly necessary when I'm trying to find out what the latest orders are.

As far as I see it, this is Orfeboy's storyline, what he states as accurate is accurate - for the purposes of the game and this thread. What is real and what isn't doesn't matter. Yes traditions change and no-one truly knows what happened thousands of years ago and the true origins of all of these stories - but that is irrelevant in this thread.

However, as far as this thread goes, Orfeboy's statements are true (or Propaganda if you're a fed reading this) - but lets not spend 6 pages debating the real-world facts, figures and miconceptions behind it.

We are in danger of losing supporters if we succumb to arguments like this. Can we get back on topic and start discussing latest status updates, best missions to be hitting etc. please?

The People of Lugh don't care what you believe, they care about what you do...

 

[Alvatore]

So far, not a single one of you has even considered the idea of reaching out to the Alliance in some way.

Alioth has already spoken on the matter at the beginning of the war, and it was on GalNet for anyone to read. The Alliance will not be involving itself with the hostilities in Lugh. Furthermore, Lugh will not be accepted into the Alliance of Independent Systems until they are, in fact, an Independent system and have demonstrated that they can manage themselves by themselves.

So please stop. Immediately. If you have nothing else to contribute that is of actual and relevant use to the topic of testing the background simulation or defeating the Federation (acquiring aid from the Alliance is impossible and should not be mentioned further) then please cease all contributions at once.

I am getting extremely tired of this off-topic bickering nonsense. To continue down this path will be to risk report for thread derailment/hijacking.

Back to the correct topic, please. Now, please.

 

[SnugglySocks]

Mungler - The only true wisdom consists in knowing that he knows nothing

open play is strangely quiet in Lugh this evening :/

 

[orfeboy]

What's the point in sharing a thought it your thought isn't complete? It doesn't help me to leave hanging logic and false assumptions by not clarifying. I'm sorry that it's wordy for your taste, but your lack of explanation hasn't had me convinced by your arguments, so why would I go the same route you do?

You have to understand, I both recognize that your group has done a lot of meaningful work, and I respect it. I don't see things going well in the long run for your group, because obviously you don't have the numbers. If this fight keeps going on, eventually, I think you will lose, through sheer numbers ground out by Feds.

I can't bring myself to support the CSG in its current state, let me have my roleplay reasons. In a video game they're completely valid. I have sympathy for the fact that you're outnumbered in the long term. I proposed literally the only idea that would get me supporting the CSG, and I also think it would attract many other players as well, if successful.

You guys can do whatever you want with it, but it's usually an unwise idea to discount a concept just because you don't happen to like the person that it's coming from.

So far, not a single one of you has even considered the idea of reaching out to the Alliance in some way. But if you were successful (and how hard can it really be?) you would be an independent system, but also be supported by all the pilots who fight for the Alliance.

Don't discount this just because you don't happen to like me. That would be a very unwise thing to do. Your group would heavily benefit from this kind of support. It is worth it for you to consider it, particularly if there is more fighting to be done over the Lugh system.

Couldn't give a damn about the Alliance and as for there not being enough of us. There are a lot more of us than you. You are making the same stupid mistake you made in the war. But I'm not here to educate you.

 

[WillFrog]

open play is strangely quiet in Lugh this evening :/

Not for me it isn't. Just got killed by an FDL and a Vulture! Had to go back to solo mode. I can't afford to lose this ship again right now.

So good news, the map updated and we are now officially an independent system. Bad news, our influence is tanking so we won't be for long at this rate.

Less arguing more mission doing please.

 

[Kaeldian]

Meanwhile, Lugh's dominating factions are once again Federation

People of Lugh only care about who is bringing in the goods. And apparetly, CSM is failing.

 

[DaveB]

Alioth has already spoken on the matter at the beginning of the war, and it was on GalNet for anyone to read. The Alliance will not be involving itself with the hostilities in Lugh. Furthermore, Lugh will not be accepted into the Alliance of Independent Systems until they are, in fact, an Independent system and have demonstrated that they can manage themselves by themselves.

So please stop. Immediately. If you have nothing else to contribute that is of actual and relevant use to the topic of testing the background simulation or defeating the Federation (acquiring aid from the Alliance is impossible and should not be mentioned further) then please cease all contributions at once.

I am getting extremely tired of this off-topic bickering nonsense. To continue down this path will be to risk report for thread derailment/hijacking.

Back to the correct topic, please. Now, please.

While I agree with you, Alvatore, may I ask on what basis you are speaking for the Alliance? I know what was on Galnet but you have gone far beyond that and I was wondering if this was hubris or you actually had a more direct line to the Alliance than the rest of us

 

[orfeboy]

While I agree with you, Alvatore, may I ask on what basis you are speaking for the Alliance? I know what was on Galnet but you have gone far beyond that and I was wondering if this was hubris or you actually had a more direct line to the Alliance than the rest of us

Seriously guys, why does everyone think we were trying to join the Alliance? For those of you who still seem to misunderstand. It is me that wrote those Galnets, all of them. FD had nothing to do with it. The intention was never to join the Alliance. The intention was to get inter-galactic recognition and a trade embargo. Go back and read the posts. You have it all wrong.

 

[DaveB]

Seriously guys, why does everyone think we were trying to join the Alliance? For those of you who still seem to misunderstand. It is me that wrote those Galnets, all of them. FD had nothing to do with it. The intention was never to join the Alliance. The intention was to get inter-galactic recognition and a trade embargo. Go back and read the posts. You have it all wrong.

I dont think that's what you were trying. While I think it would be a good in-game political move that would get us some help and would help in preserving our independence from the feds, there's no mechanism in the game to do so since we're an independent faction and no will to do so within our population. However, my questioning Alvatore on his basis for speaking for the Alliance is a totally separate issue.

 

[Alvatore]

While I agree with you, Alvatore, may I ask on what basis you are speaking for the Alliance? I know what was on Galnet but you have gone far beyond that and I was wondering if this was hubris or you actually had a more direct line to the Alliance than the rest of us

Everything I've said was contained in the GalNet post that appeared at the time.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Yeah, that probably wasn't so nice. I was a little bent out of shape after SpaceTexan ram killed me with his Clipper. My apologies.

Accepted. You lost me at that moment, in a big way, with the wife/girlfriend thing, and "CSG turds"... and I must have scroll-wheeled past a thousand lines of your text since that point.

 

[Walt Kerman]

There is no real reason to join the alliance. All that matters is what players do.

Until Frontier adds some sort of benefit, why bother. They don't even have a capital ship to camp at.

Not that I don't like the alliance. I just think Frontier should add some sort of mechanics in there. I don't have any specific suggestions though. It just feels empty.

 

[Alvatore]

There is no real reason to join the alliance. All that matters is what players do.

Until Frontier adds some sort of benefit, why bother. They don't even have a capital ship to camp at.

Not that I don't like the alliance. I just think Frontier should add some sort of mechanics in there. I don't have any specific suggestions though. It just feels empty.

Maybe it's in 1.3.