While that may be true, it does not change whether or not E: D was designed as a pure PVP game.
- Status
While that may be true, it does not change whether or not E: D was designed as a pure PVP game.
The problem is that FD has stated that piracy is a valid career option in this game. Yet the game is designed to make it too easy for piracy victims to avoid it altogether; I don't mean giving them good tools to fight back, I mean actually avoid that mechanic completely. if they aren't going to remove Solo, which I'm not suggesting they should, then the next logical option would be to provide gameplay mechanics or bonuses to incentivize traders to play in Open.
i wish eve had this option for those times when certain timezones are at their peek for moronic activities.
actually all mmo's could profit from this, and also they might get a clear set of statistical data indicating just how small the moronic group is in numbers and stop catering to them so slavishly just because they are the most vocal.
lotro handles that crowd very effectively with giving the people that gain so much pleasure from causing suffering to their fellow humans and then bragging about it afterwords with the monster combat area where you role play the foul creature you desire to be.
entropia is another mmo that i spend time in because they have a pretty good crafting system.
and PVP is not possible in some areas, however PVP is wide open without penalty in the outlying areas where the high value items exist.
i take the risk occasionally and if i get killed by another player i don't cry foul, i knew the job was dangerous when i took it.
for me this seems what eve wanted with highsec/lowsec/nosec regions but the greifers were so upset and loud that the devs added the option of wardecs so greifers could kill you in high sec.
and now that i see that ED has the solo option, i'll go ahead and buy the game.
i am so cynical about games that cater to the lowest and loudest and i spend my gaming time in lotro, entropia, morrowind, KSP, space engineers, etc. and have petty much given up on finding a game worth the time, time being more important than money.
it will be nice to have another game where i can interact with my fellow humans during the less moronic hours of the clock.
Tar Stone
Banned
Without other players, the game is ridiculously easy and simple. That's the core of the problem.
People should be coming into open to band and work together, not to shoot each other.
Player interaction was supposed to be 'rare and meaningful' according to David Braben.
There isn't any real threat in the galaxy so there's no incentive for proper, co operative, meaningful interaction.
People should be coming into open to band and work together, not to shoot each other.
Player interaction was supposed to be 'rare and meaningful' according to David Braben.
There isn't any real threat in the galaxy so there's no incentive for proper, co operative, meaningful interaction.
I still don't understand why they haven't implemented higher rewards for open play non-combat professions. If it's all risk and no reward compared to solo, then of course people will move to solo with the exception of those too lazy to switch back and forth and those who like player to player interations too much. But for the regular guy who doesn't care either way, the logical conclusion is that solo will yield more profit in the absolute sense as there is less risk. So why not just boost the profit traders can do in open play: it doesn't penalize solo and group players, and it rewards people who take the risk and are willing to play at the bottom of the food chain.
And it's not just that. The issue is that one the one hand piracy victims can run away very easily and it's generally speaking not very profitable compared to the rest. And on the other hand these victims don't really have any tools or strategic options to significantly reduce the risk of piracy to begin with. There is an imbalance on both sides of the fence which makes piracy a badly implemented career for everybody.
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What I expects from the IA D'ELITE
ANGEROUS ?
Hello to everybody, I think that it is not necessary to punish " one and the other one one " that they play solo or in the opened game, he would be still unfavourable to Elite Dangerous, problem, it is really the bound(connected) problem (connected) to the IA of the game which needs a serious revision. Voila what I propose, it is a point of seen personal, and each can have a miscellaneous to leave without for it discussion turns in "vineyard".
Example of what I expects from Elite Dangerous: 1. I am " Sailor " and I help the Union, I him(it,her) trade, the inquiry and sometimes the fight .Donc I would not want when I pass from a star to the other one to sell my products to a base (in that case of the Union) that I am to protect effectively by the force of the order of the Union (IA or players) until time .Une of base to arrive at the base, I sells my products to a price slightly more interesting that on another station other than Union .Avec evidement favors them to help the Union. 2. Now let us imagine that the attacks of the Empire (affect) all the vessels (business(cases), serviceman, explorer etc.) It would be indeed it is that in the end of certain times if the base should not be supplied any more, and well it(he) has to have consequences: During more three in the day * the base should more be supplied: * I give this figure at random by what it will be in switches schedules of Elite angerous to fix time. 3. For everybody, one could not make any more for her(it) all the height of fuel, to repair, to buy possessions, to buy a vessel in shipyards, etc.... Until the base is again to supply enough! Evidement this principle would apply to all: Union, deteriorates(aggravates), Alliance etc.... Quite world " pirate, hirelings, servicemen etc. " Would gain(win) at her(it) and his(its,her) ( sound, she(it)) has to raise (to turn out) the level of the game. In what for example the interest of the Empire in the example which I give should to come in the zone of the Union to destroy(annul) (to cancel) allowing logistics has the base to survive, and it il) has to it(he) be the same for Union against the Empire or of the other watch. Pirate will also have interest to be protected bases ditent "anarchists" to be capable of repairing their vessel or the other one. And they would have also an interest to justify to attack(affect) (incidence) of the logistics of the other base (it is an example). So, all the watches would have real interests to be forbidden (to be forbidden) or to attack(affect) (incidence) in the game. I because it is necessary a reduction (delivery) for level to contain of the IA of the game which lacks strategy. Example until now " " police premises " partially to put you fines and to keep(guard) (nurse) hands in their pocket instead of making the work protect the company, tourism, etc.... They left with you die! 4. All the categories of the reader will be more to imply and responsible for the evolution of the close future and fates of the galactic world of Elite angerous.. Even though I make many of the inquiry, it(he) will be sometimes necessary for me " to put hands in the dough " if I want to continue to be capable of selling my to give inquiries, or my goods or to repair my or my vessels. Voila what I propose, it is only a point of view, you can not share my opinion and it(he) must be normal and even interesting, she(it) il), it(he) can be in better ideas than mine when time on the forum one remains courteous and when one does not make an infringement on the person. I think that the ideas which I have just exposed(explained) (explained) are more interesting than to punish or not the players of "Solo" or in " opened game ". Awaiting for your ideas of opinion and propositions, I thank you. I hope as well as for the persons of Elite angerous be going to read these lines.
NEO-X-01.
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Bonjour à tout le monde, je pense qu'il ne est pas nécessaire de punir »un et l'autre une" qu'ils jouent en solo ou dans le jeu ouvert, il serait encore défavorable à Elite Dangerous, problème, ce est vraiment un problème lié (connecté) au IA du jeu qui a besoin d'une sérieuse revision.Voila ce que je propose, ce est un point de vu personnel, et chacun peut avoir un divers partir sans pour cela discussion tourne dans "vigne".
Exemple de ce que je attend de Elite Dangerous: 1 . Je suis "Sailor" et je aide l'Union, je le commerce, l'enquête et parfois la lutte .Donc je ne voudrais quand je passe d'une étoile à l'autre pour vendre mes produits à une base (dans ce cas de l'Union) que je suis pour protéger efficacement par la force les de l'ordre de l'Union (IA ou joueurs) jusqu'à ce que le temps .Une de base pour arriver à la base, je vend mes produits à un prix légèrement plus intéressant que sur une autre station autre que le Union .Avec evidement les favorise pour aider l'Union. 2. Maintenant imaginons que les attaques de l'Empire (affecte) tous les navires (affaires, militaire, explorateur etc. ...) ce serait en effet ce est qu'à la fin de certains temps si la base ne est plus à fournir, et bien il doit avoir des conséquences: Pendant plus de trois dans la journée * la base est plus à fournir: * Je donne ce chiffre au hasard par ce que ce sera dans les interrupteurs horaires de Elite angerous de fixer le temps. 3. Pour tout le monde, on ne pouvait pas faire plus pour elle toute la hauteur de carburant, de réparer, d'acheter des biens, acheter un navire dans les chantiers de construction navale, etc. ... Jusqu'à ce que la base est à nouveau de fournir assez! ... evidement ce principe se appliquerait à tous: Union, se aggrave, l'Alliance etc ... Toutes monde "pirate, mercenaires, militaires etc." gagneraient à elle et sa (son, elle) doit lever (trouver) le niveau du jeu . En ce qui par exemple l'intérêt de l'Empire dans l'exemple que je donne est à venir dans la zone de l'Union à détruire (annuler) permettant la logistique a la base pour survivre, et il (il) doit il être le même pour le Union contre l'Empire ou de l'autre montre. Pirate aura également intérêt à protéger bases ditent "anarchistes" Pour être en mesure de réparer leur navire ou l'autre. Et ils auraient aussi un intérêt pour justifier d'attaquer (incidence) de la logistique de l'autre base (ce est un exemple). Donc, toutes les montres auraient intérêts réels à être défendu (être interdit) ou d'attaquer (incidence) dans le jeu. Je car il est nécessaire une réduction (livraison) pour niveau de contenir de l'IA du jeu qui manque de stratégie. Exemple jusqu'à présent "« police locaux "en partie à vous mettre des amendes et à garder (garde) mains dans leur poche au lieu de faire le travail de protéger l'entreprise, tourisme, etc. ... Ils ont laissé avec vous mourez! 4. Toutes les catégories du lecteur seront plus impliquer et responsable de l'évolution de l'avenir proche et destinées du monde galactique d'Elite angerous .. Même si je fais beaucoup de l'enquête, il sera parfois nécessaire pour moi de «mettre les mains dans la pâte" si je veux continuer à être en mesure de vendre ma donner des enquêtes, ou mes marchandises ou de réparer mes ou mes vaisseaux . Voila ce que je propose, ce est seulement un point de vue, vous ne pouvez pas partager mon avis et il doit être normal et même intéressante, elle (il), il peut être dans de meilleures idées que la mienne quand le temps sur le forum on reste courtois et quand on ne fait pas une atteinte à la personne. Je pense que les idées que je viens d'exposer (expliqué) sont plus intéressants que de punir ou non les joueurs de "Solo" ou en "jeu ouvert". Dans l'attente de vos idées d'opinion et les propositions, je vous remercie. Je espère ainsi que les personnes de Elite angerous vais lire ces lignes.
NEO-X-01.
ANGEROUS ? Hello to everybody, I think that it is not necessary to punish " one and the other one one " that they play solo or in the opened game, he would be still unfavourable to Elite Dangerous, problem, it is really the bound(connected) problem (connected) to the IA of the game which needs a serious revision. Voila what I propose, it is a point of seen personal, and each can have a miscellaneous to leave without for it discussion turns in "vineyard". Example of what I expects from Elite Dangerous: 1. I am " Sailor " and I help the Union, I him(it,her) trade, the inquiry and sometimes the fight .Donc I would not want when I pass from a star to the other one to sell my products to a base (in that case of the Union) that I am to protect effectively by the force of the order of the Union (IA or players) until time .Une of base to arrive at the base, I sells my products to a price slightly more interesting that on another station other than Union .Avec evidement favors them to help the Union. 2. Now let us imagine that the attacks of the Empire (affect) all the vessels (business(cases), serviceman, explorer etc.) It would be indeed it is that in the end of certain times if the base should not be supplied any more, and well it(he) has to have consequences: During more three in the day * the base should more be supplied: * I give this figure at random by what it will be in switches schedules of Elite angerous to fix time. 3. For everybody, one could not make any more for her(it) all the height of fuel, to repair, to buy possessions, to buy a vessel in shipyards, etc.... Until the base is again to supply enough! Evidement this principle would apply to all: Union, deteriorates(aggravates), Alliance etc.... Quite world " pirate, hirelings, servicemen etc. " Would gain(win) at her(it) and his(its,her) ( sound, she(it)) has to raise (to turn out) the level of the game. In what for example the interest of the Empire in the example which I give should to come in the zone of the Union to destroy(annul) (to cancel) allowing logistics has the base to survive, and it il) has to it(he) be the same for Union against the Empire or of the other watch. Pirate will also have interest to be protected bases ditent "anarchists" to be capable of repairing their vessel or the other one. And they would have also an interest to justify to attack(affect) (incidence) of the logistics of the other base (it is an example). So, all the watches would have real interests to be forbidden (to be forbidden) or to attack(affect) (incidence) in the game. I because it is necessary a reduction (delivery) for level to contain of the IA of the game which lacks strategy. Example until now " " police premises " partially to put you fines and to keep(guard) (nurse) hands in their pocket instead of making the work protect the company, tourism, etc.... They left with you die! 4. All the categories of the reader will be more to imply and responsible for the evolution of the close future and fates of the galactic world of Elite angerous.. Even though I make many of the inquiry, it(he) will be sometimes necessary for me " to put hands in the dough " if I want to continue to be capable of selling my to give inquiries, or my goods or to repair my or my vessels. Voila what I propose, it is only a point of view, you can not share my opinion and it(he) must be normal and even interesting, she(it) il), it(he) can be in better ideas than mine when time on the forum one remains courteous and when one does not make an infringement on the person. I think that the ideas which I have just exposed(explained) (explained) are more interesting than to punish or not the players of "Solo" or in " opened game ". Awaiting for your ideas of opinion and propositions, I thank you. I hope as well as for the persons of Elite angerous be going to read these lines.
NEO-X-01.
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Bonjour à tout le monde, je pense qu'il ne est pas nécessaire de punir »un et l'autre une" qu'ils jouent en solo ou dans le jeu ouvert, il serait encore défavorable à Elite Dangerous, problème, ce est vraiment un problème lié (connecté) au IA du jeu qui a besoin d'une sérieuse revision.Voila ce que je propose, ce est un point de vu personnel, et chacun peut avoir un divers partir sans pour cela discussion tourne dans "vigne". Exemple de ce que je attend de Elite Dangerous: 1 . Je suis "Sailor" et je aide l'Union, je le commerce, l'enquête et parfois la lutte .Donc je ne voudrais quand je passe d'une étoile à l'autre pour vendre mes produits à une base (dans ce cas de l'Union) que je suis pour protéger efficacement par la force les de l'ordre de l'Union (IA ou joueurs) jusqu'à ce que le temps .Une de base pour arriver à la base, je vend mes produits à un prix légèrement plus intéressant que sur une autre station autre que le Union .Avec evidement les favorise pour aider l'Union. 2. Maintenant imaginons que les attaques de l'Empire (affecte) tous les navires (affaires, militaire, explorateur etc. ...) ce serait en effet ce est qu'à la fin de certains temps si la base ne est plus à fournir, et bien il doit avoir des conséquences: Pendant plus de trois dans la journée * la base est plus à fournir: * Je donne ce chiffre au hasard par ce que ce sera dans les interrupteurs horaires de Elite angerous de fixer le temps. 3. Pour tout le monde, on ne pouvait pas faire plus pour elle toute la hauteur de carburant, de réparer, d'acheter des biens, acheter un navire dans les chantiers de construction navale, etc. ... Jusqu'à ce que la base est à nouveau de fournir assez! ... evidement ce principe se appliquerait à tous: Union, se aggrave, l'Alliance etc ... Toutes monde "pirate, mercenaires, militaires etc." gagneraient à elle et sa (son, elle) doit lever (trouver) le niveau du jeu . En ce qui par exemple l'intérêt de l'Empire dans l'exemple que je donne est à venir dans la zone de l'Union à détruire (annuler) permettant la logistique a la base pour survivre, et il (il) doit il être le même pour le Union contre l'Empire ou de l'autre montre. Pirate aura également intérêt à protéger bases ditent "anarchistes" Pour être en mesure de réparer leur navire ou l'autre. Et ils auraient aussi un intérêt pour justifier d'attaquer (incidence) de la logistique de l'autre base (ce est un exemple). Donc, toutes les montres auraient intérêts réels à être défendu (être interdit) ou d'attaquer (incidence) dans le jeu. Je car il est nécessaire une réduction (livraison) pour niveau de contenir de l'IA du jeu qui manque de stratégie. Exemple jusqu'à présent "« police locaux "en partie à vous mettre des amendes et à garder (garde) mains dans leur poche au lieu de faire le travail de protéger l'entreprise, tourisme, etc. ... Ils ont laissé avec vous mourez! 4. Toutes les catégories du lecteur seront plus impliquer et responsable de l'évolution de l'avenir proche et destinées du monde galactique d'Elite angerous .. Même si je fais beaucoup de l'enquête, il sera parfois nécessaire pour moi de «mettre les mains dans la pâte" si je veux continuer à être en mesure de vendre ma donner des enquêtes, ou mes marchandises ou de réparer mes ou mes vaisseaux . Voila ce que je propose, ce est seulement un point de vue, vous ne pouvez pas partager mon avis et il doit être normal et même intéressante, elle (il), il peut être dans de meilleures idées que la mienne quand le temps sur le forum on reste courtois et quand on ne fait pas une atteinte à la personne. Je pense que les idées que je viens d'exposer (expliqué) sont plus intéressants que de punir ou non les joueurs de "Solo" ou en "jeu ouvert". Dans l'attente de vos idées d'opinion et les propositions, je vous remercie. Je espère ainsi que les personnes de Elite angerous vais lire ces lignes.
NEO-X-01.
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i don't go to a leather bar to find a sweet and gentle lover.
i'm buying the game because it gives me the option to go somewhere other than YOUR wonderful leather bar.
if i am a trader/crafter why should i be forced to spend time with people that find so much pleasure in humiliating me?
you like that kind of activity.
you don't care if it chases people away.
if you are in a world with others like yourself it seems like it would be a wonderful and desirable thing.
oh wait, i get it now.
it's the act of causing discomfort for people "AGAINST THEIR WILL" that gives you pleasure.
not being able to do this reduces the value of the game for you.
another way to reply to your complaint that victims are given a way to avoid you;
You've made your bed- you'll have to lie in it
I've spent every single second of my couple of hundred hours playtime (since launch) in open so far, and lost not a single credit to another player.
So why should I get more rewards than a player who's been exclusively in solo? The disparity in risk can't be very high, because I can see no way in which I could have made more credits in solo.
So why should I get more rewards than a player who's been exclusively in solo? The disparity in risk can't be very high, because I can see no way in which I could have made more credits in solo.
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One players' desire for interaction should not be forced, or coerced on another. That would just drive some players away from the game entirely. FD created the mode system to allow for as varied a player-base as possible. Just because FD says piracy is a valid choice doesn't mean it has to be propped up and specifically supported through incentives. All the OP is saying is 'FD make some victims appear'. Open play will support just as many traders/pirates/bounty hunters as there are players looking for that kind of play.
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I think FD should just ensure NPC victims are around, with suitable cargo for the pirate types to make a profit. Traders don't need pirates. Bounty Hunters have RES and Nav's to find earnings. Give pirates victims that won't mind loosing cargo. This won't satisfy everyone, but it would eliminate some griping.
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Financially incentivizing Open would amount to paying the traders for the 'pirates cut'. Why would a trader, or victim, not just pass on the incentive? They would just do the math. Keep the profits I already make, or risk losses, not just of 'some' cargo, but of an insurance claim. The answer is: No one wants to be the victim. You won't change that dangling a few credits as incentive. And, FD would just be starting a whole new firestorm, or not so new one, for favoring one aspect of the game over another. Open has made it's bed, now it has to lie in it.
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I think FD should just ensure NPC victims are around, with suitable cargo for the pirate types to make a profit. Traders don't need pirates. Bounty Hunters have RES and Nav's to find earnings. Give pirates victims that won't mind loosing cargo. This won't satisfy everyone, but it would eliminate some griping.
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Financially incentivizing Open would amount to paying the traders for the 'pirates cut'. Why would a trader, or victim, not just pass on the incentive? They would just do the math. Keep the profits I already make, or risk losses, not just of 'some' cargo, but of an insurance claim. The answer is: No one wants to be the victim. You won't change that dangling a few credits as incentive. And, FD would just be starting a whole new firestorm, or not so new one, for favoring one aspect of the game over another. Open has made it's bed, now it has to lie in it.
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Sorry, but both open and solo/group players paid the same amount for their games, therefore both sets of players are
equal, solo players can switch to open and vice versa.
equal, solo players can switch to open and vice versa.
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Exactly this.
99% of time, unless a player specifically hunts PvP, Open and Solo are identical. Same risk - same reward. Move on.
You would be surprised. People are ready to become victims if it means they can make some more bucks out of it. I know that from experience, my first death ever in EVE was by taking on a sell order that was a bit too good to be true in a low security system. I suspected it was likely to be a trap, but I just couldn't pass it.
+1 Rep EXACTLY this point.
Anecdotal and proves nothing.
Why do you want traders in open play?
as far as I can tell the only reason folks want traders in open is to pirate there cargo or in some cases just kill them for fun. My flying about in a private group or solo mode is my choice and I shouldn't be penalised for blazing my trail my way, and FD have said the same.
Enty
This is to Kerrash, I never troll, at the age of 70 I,m a bit long on the tooth for trivial and childish remarks!!!
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Cargo insurance might help.
Ages ago before I turned to Bounty Hunting, I did a nice easy run in Open Play that gave me 130k cr each way in a Type 6. However, the cargo cost 600k and the ship re-buy was 200k.
I got interdicted once by a player pirate who demanded all my cargo... hmm, how are you going to store 104T of cargo in your Cobra Mark III? So, I thought I would ask him (via chat) how much he really wanted. I was stopped and happy to comply as well.
Nope, the 5 secs it took to open up chat and type the message was too long a delay for him, so he told me I was going to die and started shooting at me. I abandoned all cargo (wishing I had jettisoned it) hoping he would stop shooting and when he didn't I jumped away knowing I wouldn't be able to fight him.
So... what incentive is there that could offset the 600k (potentially 800k if he had killed me) credit loss for just 130k credit profit?
If I had decided to stay and fight and managed to kill the pirate, he probably would just lose 90k in re-buy and probably a 5k bounty. The unbalanced (95k < 800k) difference is probably what drives some players back to Solo.
I realise this is just one example, not all player pirates are like that and this doesn't happen all the time but some players don't like that unbalanced game play.
Ages ago before I turned to Bounty Hunting, I did a nice easy run in Open Play that gave me 130k cr each way in a Type 6. However, the cargo cost 600k and the ship re-buy was 200k.
I got interdicted once by a player pirate who demanded all my cargo... hmm, how are you going to store 104T of cargo in your Cobra Mark III? So, I thought I would ask him (via chat) how much he really wanted. I was stopped and happy to comply as well.
Nope, the 5 secs it took to open up chat and type the message was too long a delay for him, so he told me I was going to die and started shooting at me. I abandoned all cargo (wishing I had jettisoned it) hoping he would stop shooting and when he didn't I jumped away knowing I wouldn't be able to fight him.
So... what incentive is there that could offset the 600k (potentially 800k if he had killed me) credit loss for just 130k credit profit?
If I had decided to stay and fight and managed to kill the pirate
, he probably would just lose 90k in re-buy and probably a 5k bounty. The unbalanced (95k < 800k) difference is probably what drives some players back to Solo.I realise this is just one example, not all player pirates are like that and this doesn't happen all the time but some players don't like that unbalanced game play.
Ok, lets try to be clear on something. The game is, "Play as you want to play". Now if you want open "PVP", there is the open mode. So with that said, and full well knowing it's the gankers that are ruining open play, "by driving away all the traders".
WHY THE HELL AREN"T YOU KILLING GREIFERS, instead if complaining about not having traders to shoot?
Could it be that there are so many Griefers, that death would be immanent? Could it be that there are large player based organizations out there that are killing every new player they see, in an effort to drive almost everyone to solo or groups?
WHY? To be able to say with some validity that open is, "Broken Beyond Repair" and something radical must be done, "like destroying groups and solo" to force the players back into the open mode, to "Save the game".
This is called "Meta Gaming", and I'm certain the likes of many player based organizations are behind it right now.
Like I've said in the past, if this format of a "Space Based Game", is allowed to succeed, and it will! It breaks things for all "Space Based Games to Follow".
So if your an honest PVPer, form up with other honest PVPers, and go out and clean up the griefing problem there. If you clean it up, some of the players that left will return.
One last thing. If you want to increase players willing to participate in PVP. It's pretty common knowledge you need to really lighten up the death penalty to something pretty manageable. Take a good look at "Planet Side 2's" model.
If you could implement something like what they have, it would virtually take off. Then people would be screaming about no meaningful death penalty. IGNORE THEM!
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I have been bounty hunting in a res around lave cluster before now. While coming in to pay bounties I get jumped by wing of four who tell me they dont like bh around here and proceed to light me up.
I got murdered because of those role playing. There are plenty of res I can move on to. But if I had found a good trade route and was being ganked or pirated, I too would switch to solo as from my limited exp finding a good trade route can take a while.
Everyone should be allowed to play as they want. Plenty of options for all. I get the impression op just wants more pvp for the good of his game.
I got murdered because of those role playing. There are plenty of res I can move on to. But if I had found a good trade route and was being ganked or pirated, I too would switch to solo as from my limited exp finding a good trade route can take a while.
Everyone should be allowed to play as they want. Plenty of options for all. I get the impression op just wants more pvp for the good of his game.
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