See, THAT's why I don't play Open.

[ToniB]

Basically traders have no reason to fly in open unless there's no other alternative, or unless open is somehow more profitable for them. Since you have open and solo on the same save, then of course, there's no interest for the trader to be on open (and the pirate can also flee player pursuers by fleeing to solo).

you mean besides that its more fun to interact with other humans?

basically what you say: if there is a mode without any npcs, unlimited cargo space, instant travel per click, and garanteed profit of 2000% per trade run, people would play that mode over any mode cause its the easiest?

 

[PhazonAran]

you mean besides that its more fun to interact with other humans?

It may be more fun for you. Not for everyone.

basically what you say: if there is a mode without any npcs, unlimited cargo space, instant travel per click, and garanteed profit of 2000% per trade run, people would play that mode over any mode cause its the easiest?

Some will. Some will not. Again, depends on the people.

 

[kingchub]

poeple who say we shouldnt have non consentual 'meaningless' pvp in open are very greedy.

you have solo

if u want to play with others then u have private group.

why are you trying to ruin the game for others by lobbying FD in threads like these that you want it your way.

If FD ever take free, OPEN, pvp out of open. Myself and im sure many others, will stop playing the game.

 

[ToniB]

Hmmm. Well, ultimately, it boils down to this - hunting NPCs is bland, easy and just repetitive / boring after a short while. There's absolutely no reason to cooperate in NPC hunting because your ability to farm them is limited by their spawn rate rather then actual danger in engaging them.

If it is again by design that NPCs are a pushover ("we expect even a newbie player to be more of a challenge") and that PvP is discouraged, then basically the only non-predictable, challenging and engaging activity (well, short of sightseeing the milky way which is not so predictable, quite engaging, and has a competitive touch to it - my favourite activity) is discouraged and de-incentivized.

Of course open mode should not be about wanton murder (and safe systems should be safe systems) but the game is sold under pretense of being a MMO set in a cutthroat galaxy, and neither is the game a MMO, nor is the galaxy a cutthroat one without PvP. I think the mantra "let everyone play the way they like" isn't sound design. Aside from exploration, it's kind of a themepark / grindville to get the next best ship / outfit to do more of the same except at a faster pace and with cooler visuals. This is the gist of the negative Steam reviews; the gist of the positive ones is "it has exploration of the milky way and flying a spaceship is really fun" which is also absolutely true. I think we gamers are expecting more these days in general - what was good for a single player game >10 years ago just doesn't really sustain people's interest all that much now.

this is the weirdest part in Elite Development: Fdev already made the game so carebear and threatless, and still people want to eliminate the ONLY danger left in the game ... Im really astonished that the truck simulator fans are so vocal in the elite comunity.

 

[PhazonAran]

poeple who say we shouldnt have non consentual 'meaningless' pvp in open are very greedy.

you have solo

if u want to play with others then u have private group.

why are you trying to ruin the game for others by lobbying FD in threads like these that you want it your way.

If FD ever take free, OPEN, pvp out of open. Myself and im sure many others, will stop playing the game.

We don't want to take PvP out of Open, far from it. We simply don't want to see the WHOLE galaxy being reduced to a PvP arena.

this is the weirdest part in Elite Development: Fdev already made the game so carebear and threatless, and still people want to eliminate the ONLY danger left in the game ... Im really astonished that the truck simulator fans are so vocal in the elite comunity.

Wut ? The PvPers are probably the loudest on those forums.

 

[ToniB]

poeple who say we shouldnt have non consentual 'meaningless' pvp in open are very greedy.

you have solo

if u want to play with others then u have private group.

why are you trying to ruin the game for others by lobbying FD in threads like these that you want it your way.

If FD ever take free, OPEN, pvp out of open. Myself and im sure many others, will stop playing the game.

exactly this. fdev already gave those peace loving focus group solo mode and group mode and pve only group but they want more, they want all.

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We don't want to take PvP out of Open, far from it. We simply don't want to see the WHOLE galaxy being reduced to a PvP arena.

wow, being killed once a year now is the whole galaxy being a pvp arena? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

[Branko]

you mean besides that its more fun to interact with other humans?

basically what you say: if there is a mode without any npcs, unlimited cargo space, instant travel per click, and garanteed profit of 2000% per trade run, people would play that mode over any mode cause its the easiest?

I would certainly do it myself just to get the ships I want in 5 minutes instead of 10 hours, then head out into open to do the actual fun activities (which are exploring and PvP). Do you think people trade because they enjoy the repetitive commodities->undock->frameship drive charging->dock->commodities->undock->frameshiftdrivecharging->dock->commodities->undock->frameshipdrivecharging->dock->commodities->undock->frameship... geez, I got bored of writing it... or people trade because it's the quickest way to afford a ship they want?

 

[Wicz]

poeple who say we shouldnt have non consentual 'meaningless' pvp in open are very greedy.

you have solo

if u want to play with others then u have private group.

why are you trying to ruin the game for others by lobbying FD in threads like these that you want it your way.

If FD ever take free, OPEN, pvp out of open. Myself and im sure many others, will stop playing the game.

I am happy for PVP to remain in open, but the consequences need to be adjusted.

Currently the penalty for hanging around a station entrance or pad is instant death, while the penalty for mindless killing is a fine/bounty which can be paid off in minutes.

 

[Zplintz]

Open is so dangerous I have lost my ship (and cost myself far more credits) to my own stupidity many more times than because of Cmdr or Npc action. :/

 

[Riktar]

this is the weirdest part in Elite Development: Fdev already made the game so carebear and threatless, and still people want to eliminate the ONLY danger left in the game ... Im really astonished that the truck simulator fans are so vocal in the elite comunity.

No, the weirdest part will be the forum members who call others names because they don't understand WHY someone doesn't like getting blown up for grins and giggles and,,,,,, then,,,,

Will be the first ones screaming at the top of their lungs in these very same forums if Frontier decides to implement a security system/police force that makes it hard for them to "kill just because I can" and not get away with it so easily.

I can hear it now: Wah!!!! I can't pick on weaker players! Why is it SO darn hard to ruin someone else's fun? I was having a blast (deliberate pun) doing that. I don't like consequences when they apply to me!!!

WAAAAAAH!!!!!!

 

[Majinvash]

If you mean I failed to read any kind of meaningful reply from you, then yes, I failed hard in that respect.

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It wasn't called "Elite: Player Killer Frenzy" either.

They picked "Elite: Dangerous" because it looks cool, and for the reasons outlined by David Braben in the video, which you are desperately trying to ignore.

To paraphrase his words... "a system which was a kill counter"...
That involves fighting... that must involve both NPC and Player.
Dangerous because getting to Elite was too hard and took too long and Elite Elite would be a silly name.
So yeah.. basically its called Elite Dangerous because the pilot federation wants to give missions to killer pilots of high skill.

Drops Mike

 

[Armour]

Even in the most airtight security environments, stuff goes wrong. Sometimes to the point that people die.

Yes, but "stuff goes wrong" is supposed to be a rarity. A 100% "stuff goes wrong" rate would be cause for concern in any part of the world.

When seconds count, the Federal Security Service is minutes away. Use your universal castle law rights!

I don't expect cops to show up in the nick of time every time, or even most times. I do expect that they will show up in a reasonable timescale, be hard as nails, call in reinforcements if needed, and that the punishment for such serious crimes is equally serious and impossible (or at least very difficult) to avoid.

 

[Templar245]

I've just had it 3 times in a row with in minutes of each other i escaped the guy twice but oin the third he followed me and killed me. cost me 600'000 in lost earning and ship buy back. it's absolutely unnecessary. it just ruins your day. most gyus I've met here have been great. There's always one who likes to ruin things.

SC'ing back to the station from a RES, and a CMDR interdicts my Viper in his Vulture and just kills me for no reason. Didn't want anything, I hailed him, no reply, stowed my weapons, no reply, was drifting helplessly, no reply. I'm not that bothered, it was only 144k rebuy but it's 144k this guy took off me with no profit for himself or anything. In an hour of open play I've met 4 CMDRs, 2 killed me, 1 talked to me, 1 sparred with me. I know, it's only an hour but still..why bother?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

PVP in open is part of the game, that's why it's possible.

No one - not even I - disputes that!

The whole idea that people should be able to derp around unshielded with holds full of Palladium and not get pirated by another player "because Braben said the bounty system discourages PvP" is why you and many others have failed.

I agree with you in that if you "derp around unshielded", then you are asking for trouble. Completely agree.

I and others have failed at what, precisely?

It is not I and others who have failed.


The failures are FDEV's, and are the result of the following facts;

• The advocates of player killing have been using the following as justification for their behaviour;
  • "It's the name of the game" - bad excuse as I explained earlier.
  • "Open means PvP" - not the intention of FDEV, but they have FAILED so far to encourage meaningful player cooperation and discourage PvP.
  • "It's been marketed as an MMO, and in MMO's, player killing happens all the time"

• FDEV have so far singularly failed to implement a crime & punishment system that can cope with the PvP aspect of the game.

• FDEV absolutely SUCK at communication - so much so that the player killers I mentioned above, and also players new to the Elite universe and lore, have NO IDEA what this game is truly about.

PvP is a fact of life (or death) in open, it's non-consensual and can happen absolutely anywhere. I find this to be an accurate simulation of what life would be like if we had the technology depicted in this game.

Absolutely agree with you! However, FDEV have failed to balance PvP with a suitable enough Crime & Punishment System.

Yes DB himself and others have said that PvP isn't the main part of the game and this I suspect is why it's hard to make an income as a player pirate. The fact that it will happen has also been mentioned by FDEV and scenarios have been suggested by them that indicate player combat encounters are by design.

Surprise! I absolutely agree with you again .

No one is saying there should not be PvP in the game. The real problem is FDEV's failure to implement Crime & Punishment systems effective enough to encourage the roles the game advertises, and to cope with the subset of players (un-empathic player killers) who deliberately target weak player and n00b players.

Why the game got its name is frankly irrelevant, it's got "dangerous" in it and does what it says on the tin.

You just ruined a very good post with exactly the thing I've been trying to communicate to people who say exactly this!

 

[CMDR NightsLong]

I've just had it 3 times in a row with in minutes of each other i escaped the guy twice but oin the third he followed me and killed me. cost me 600'000 in lost earning and ship buy back. it's absolutely unnecessary. it just ruins your day. most gyus I've met here have been great. There's always one who likes to ruin things.

Perhaps join a PVE group or play solo then. For me what happened to you makes the game fun.

 

[SteveLaw]

Frankly if you get attacked by a hormonal teenager and lose then you should have been a better pilot.

My post said nothing about losing.

 

[PhazonAran]

exactly this. fdev already gave those peace loving focus group solo mode and group mode and pve only group but they want more, they want all.

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wow, being killed once a year now is the whole galaxy being a pvp arena? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Just wanting a big PvP arena is not "wanting all" ?

And where the hell did I say that I was killed ? In fact, the last time I was attacked by a player was in mid January. Overexageration much ?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Perhaps join a PVE group or play solo then. For me what happened to you makes the game fun.

Or FDEV get the Crime & Punishment system this game badly needs, to the point where FDEV's original goals for the game are met.

 

[PhazonAran]

A galaxy full of humans is a dangerous place and always will be. Pack accordingly.

Great ! It should be dangerous for everyone then, not only for the people you attack.

 

[NeilF]

This here is the crux of the issue imo.

some people bought elite thinking it was a PvP orientated space shooter.

others bought it thinking it was an attempt to create a semi believable game about the life of a space man in 3300 where PvP was a small part of the game.

...answer should be to simply:-
1) Promote the gameplay ED surely wants to promote? A solid trader, bounter hunter, pirate system. Trolls murdering people for a laugh break this entire model. So punish mindless (troll) murder, reward "good" piracy.
2) Allow PvP more easily if people wish to partake. eg: See my sig suggestions about "Gladitorial Arenas" (or even "Time Trial Races"). As daft as they may sound