Except in firefly you can tell its a smokey old reaver ship about to attack you not a shiney viper or vulture that could be anyone until they unleash death on you.
Top show though.
Top show though.
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What is up with the mentality that piracy and PvP of any form is griefing?
- Thread starter ComradeFresco
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Do you watch any sort of 'Funniest home videos", type shows on tv, or did you ? When you did or do.., did you laugh at the guy who fell trying to skateboard and racked himself on a hand rail ? If so that's 'sick' because you are getting entertainment at his frustration.
People getting hurt is entertaining, don't ask me why but it is. Proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26lj9pmKUV8
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Until they make risk a real thing.. IE you lose your ship its a huge loss and not so easy to recover from. PvP and ganking and all the other things are going to be in this game.
Currently with the way things are respawn is so cheap this might as well be CoD in space..
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Oooh you cant say that because saying someone else getting hurt in elite is fun implies that you attack them to hurt them for your lols and that my friend is 'griefing'
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I agree with the cheap ships yes. When you can deal death with a ship that costs say 40k to respawn such as the viper then death by lols is cheap.
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I agree with the cheap ships yes. When you can deal death with a ship that costs say 40k to respawn such as the viper then death by lols is cheap.
to be honest, I don't even 'pvp' in this game. Their is no risk what so ever , and the reward is lol as well. If I am going to do PvP type stuff, I prefer a game that has risk such as eve.
I am only commenting on this subject, because I find it a very odd stance, to play a space game online with thousands of other people, and expect that you wont have people trying to shoot at you. I also find the stance that if you like to do pvp stuffs you are somehow psychotic and belong in a mental facility, a unstable line of reasoning.
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nats
Banned
Maybe when there are other things to do in the game other than shoot each other we might see a different sort of player emerging. But at the moment all there is to do is buy ships and upgrade them to be ultra powerful and blast as many people as possible for fun. And 1.3 will even give us cause to do it. Lovely. Heres hoping we start seeing better missions and other things materialise. But I do think getting rid of the use of the random USSs for missions is a very good thing. They are ok for a distraction but not as the main gameplay feature.
If you don't like the Risk of losing cargo, go to solo ! How hard is this to understand ?!
Solo == 0 Risk from other Players
Open == Risk from other players
Solo == Easy mode
Open == Hard mode ( if this game could have one....).
There is no mystery here. It's because no means no. Non consenting pilots are being attacked and destroyed, and that's allowed by design. Furthermore the consequences of destruction include significant penalties; more so if you have full cargo hold.
ED is a griefers paradise, open play is designed for PvP pirating which is a guise for bullying. The basic player interaction is supposed to be, give me your stuff or I'll destroy you. You'll lose less by acquiescing to terrorist demands.
It's badly balanced, or rather unbalanced planned victimisation. You have the option of playing alone, or playing with griefers, by design. That's what Elite has become.
Remiel
Banned
Personally, when I'm active and in the mood for a scrap, I get started by shooting at anything and everything. I'm indiscriminatory. Why do I shoot traders though? Well, contrary to your ironically narrow-minded view of it being 'mindless' I'm actually quite mindful of the little factoid that multiple ship ownership is a thing, and he might come for revenge. Or he might have friends nearby. Or it merely adds to my climbing bounty, which eventually gets posted as a news bulletin, attracting bounty hunters to come looking. Before too long, one way or the other, people are picking fights with me. Saves me some serious travel time sometimes.
Some people do things for no apparent rhyme or reason, and let's be honest, what really frustrates you the most is that you can't figure it out.
I don't think that's 'griefing'. Griefing would be me somehow tracking your position in ED, and Spawn killing you at stations over and over and over tell you rage quit. Me just poping your ship because you flew by and I am blockading the zone is not griefing.
I don't think most of these people ( not calling you out so don't take this the wrong way ) have ever experienced real grief in a online video game. I use to play UO in the late 90s, I know what griefing is, and I can tell you their is no way to grief in this game. I can not annilate everything you have done, I can not follow you around all day and harass you, effectively stopping your progression. in UO pre Trammy patch, if you went out of town you were open game, and the Pkers were rampet. Basically 3 minutes outside of a town as a new player was basically death by pvpers... ED not so much.
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I don't dispute that, they have not balanced reward vs risk enough in this game, and that's why its in this state.
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Well I PvP where necessary but dont seek it out. Of course there are people who are going to act the fool and if in open its to be expected sometimes however the difference here to say COD multiplayer is that the Elite universe isnt just a kill everyone you see format. Its more of a live life in 3300 simulator really which means there are many different ways to play and none are right or wrong. Its much more like real life really (rolls eyes a little I suppose) where just doing a job and having lols is just as valid a play style as killing people. This of course is mirrored in real life where you too can do stuff and have lols but in order to have fun do you have to kill people Im sure most peoples hobbies dont include murder? In fact Im pretty sure youd be locked up for life or given a death sentence if you did. I actually suspect that most of the perceived griefers are the younger generation who through no fault of their own have been conditioned to think gaming means killing stuff whereas the older generation and arguably the original eliters from 84 can remember when games were a bit more cerebral. I hate the get to solo comments because just as the killers feel that open is their ground Im sure, and Im one of them, that others feel that the ability to interact with others beyond dog fights and scraps is just as rewarding and enriching an environment you them. Its not fair to tell someone to get out because they dont like being beaten up. In reality it would of course be the other way around.
Remiel
Banned
There's no murder in a video game. It's all pixels. Real life has consequences, games don't, so your analogy falls flat. When you lose a ship in Elite, you're sitting on your chair feeling a bit chuffed by it but you're lungs are still filling with air and your heart is still beating. We're talking about pixels here, a game where space combat is normal, and there has been a lot of attention given to providing players with as diverse a range of combat options as possible. AS WELL AS trade, exploration, and any number of other things that largely fall into those categories. That's why players are going to shoot at you, because they can. And that's why solo mode was provided, for people that don't want to be shot at.
And don't pretend like being a member of an older generation of gamers means anything. I know plenty of people in their 60s and up playing EVE Online that understand the difference between pixels and real life just fine and they're plenty keen on blowing up internet spaceships. As for games of old being more 'cerebral', I think you'll find that for most that try it, this game's learning curve ain't exactly shallow. You'll find the people doing the 'indiscriminate killing' are much older than you think.
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I can figure it out thankyou and being offensive to me to somehow make your cause seem intelligent does pretty much the opposite. I would suggest that most of the traders you kill are not multi ship owners and those who are probably cant be bothered to come after you for revenge as frankly lifes too short to bother with the tracking mechanic in game at the moment and probably doenst share your need to play the game out of pure anger which you seem to be trying to incite in others with your play style. If you really were just looking for a fight there are very busy systems out there where you can pick fights with real opposition all day long. So lets just be honest here, you get your kicks from doing your best to annoy other players.
Of course you are correct it is only pixels and not real death but a game such as this is supposed to be immersive. Im not playing tennis where its win/lose jolly good show shall we have another game Im playing a character in an alternate reality to enjoy an alternative life for a while. To me and Im sure others that alternate life still means something when its taken away for no reason.
Remiel
Banned
"I was referring to the murderous attacks in elite being unconsentual and I strongly suspect cowardly..."
A line containing just one of quite a fair few of your own offensive statements from a previous comment you made. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. But you're a big boy, in your 40s with the reflexes of a 20 year old, I'm sure you can handle it. Let's move on?
You can suggest what you want. Presumptions aren't a demonstration of conclusivity, they are assertions, and your particular flavour of assertion carries a whiff of venom. Dismissal of another player's capability or drive for revenge - one of my best fights with with a Cobra who came back to avenge the loss of his Hauler. Revenge, mind you, doesn't need to come from anger, he was keen for a brawl. I was in a Sidewinder and all to happy to oblige. No one won though, I chose to bail when NPCs started showing up after near on five minutes of flying circles around one another trying to line up good shots. We both came out under 50% structure remaining though, and I had real sweat on my face. And given when I'm active I stay in the same system, no one has to track me. What I get my kicks from, at the end of the day, is neither your business nor is it your problem, so when you make assertions about it, I have to wonder... are you hitting on me? I'm somewhat concerned that you think you know me so well...
Again, ironically, you accuse others of anger while putting so much on display in all this presumptuousness, and the bitterness saddens me but only a little because at the end of the day, all the f's I have to give are reserved for people that matter.
^_^
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Risk balacing...
At the moment there is a ridiculous bias towards the griefer/PvPer. The potential cost to the victim is huge and the cost to the aggressor is negligible.
FD needs to address this balance to make piracy and general griefing an incredibly risky proposal where there's an very good chance that you will be caught and destroyed, or make it much harder to function, like any criminal would need to do.
On a side-note, current PvP "piracy" is essentially a bogus "legitimizing" of griefing since "Give me your cargo" piracy is a monumentally pointless exercise since the income is minimal and time expended excessive (if you actually pick-up the dropped cargo!).
Criminals want money, not useless cargo canisters, so some kind of "blackmail" system needs to be implemented (give me $250k or I destroy you), but this goes completely against with the desire of FD to make credit transfers as hard as possible.
My gut reaction would be that murders are automatically punished with the removal of all insurance coverage (do real criminals get insurance??), or maybe a sliding scale where insurance gets more expensive with each murder. This would be a huge deterrent to those that casually grief, and make it a much more dangerous occupation.
A lot of people forget that career criminals don't go around pointlessly shooting people, unless they are a known threat, or it's some kind of score settling and with that, the victim is usually another criminal!
Unwanted "PvP" and general griefing is more akin to psycotic rampage acts than anything "criminal", it's just over-the-top antisocial behavior, or legitimate psychosis, not a "viable" gameplay option for anyone who is not suffering from the former!
It seems to me that in any kind of realistic social "simulation" you'd see actual organized "PvP" events being promoted in Anarchy systems, with prizes being offered to the winners, thus giving a purpose and outlet for those that want to test their mettle, and not be instantly be branded as a murderer.
At the moment there is a ridiculous bias towards the griefer/PvPer. The potential cost to the victim is huge and the cost to the aggressor is negligible.
FD needs to address this balance to make piracy and general griefing an incredibly risky proposal where there's an very good chance that you will be caught and destroyed, or make it much harder to function, like any criminal would need to do.
On a side-note, current PvP "piracy" is essentially a bogus "legitimizing" of griefing since "Give me your cargo" piracy is a monumentally pointless exercise since the income is minimal and time expended excessive (if you actually pick-up the dropped cargo!).
Criminals want money, not useless cargo canisters, so some kind of "blackmail" system needs to be implemented (give me $250k or I destroy you), but this goes completely against with the desire of FD to make credit transfers as hard as possible.
My gut reaction would be that murders are automatically punished with the removal of all insurance coverage (do real criminals get insurance??), or maybe a sliding scale where insurance gets more expensive with each murder. This would be a huge deterrent to those that casually grief, and make it a much more dangerous occupation.
A lot of people forget that career criminals don't go around pointlessly shooting people, unless they are a known threat, or it's some kind of score settling and with that, the victim is usually another criminal!
Unwanted "PvP" and general griefing is more akin to psycotic rampage acts than anything "criminal", it's just over-the-top antisocial behavior, or legitimate psychosis, not a "viable" gameplay option for anyone who is not suffering from the former!
It seems to me that in any kind of realistic social "simulation" you'd see actual organized "PvP" events being promoted in Anarchy systems, with prizes being offered to the winners, thus giving a purpose and outlet for those that want to test their mettle, and not be instantly be branded as a murderer.
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Criminals should be pariahs in polite society, unless they are rich and powerful enough that people are inclined to ignore their misdeeds. Otherwise they should be encouraged to remain with their own kind. Anyone foolhardy and/or greedy enough to venture into the midst of such outlaws should be aware that they are taking their lives into their own hands. I'm sure the designers can build that into the game. Whether they want to is another matter...
Correct - it is all just pixels, and it's all just packets. However, some of our more pugnacious players cry when someone else doesn't want their pixels or packets. Packetgriefing is real PvP, none of this in-game shooting nonsense to get in the way 
You read anger and bitterness in me where there is none. I am playing devils advocate here as I have seen very little of the griefing talked about on here tbh. However I do have concerns with your style of play (taking you as an example as you stepped up so dont take it personally) where its essentially pushing a kid over in the street to fight his dad.
Your cobra fight sounds fun and the guy was obviously up for some PvP happy time revenge but judging by all the complaints on here given by traders I am not getting the vibe that your interpretation that traders want to play it your way is correct, and its a little arrogant to think that they should or go away to solo.
As I've said there are plenty of tooled up ships flying around looking for fights without picking on the ones who clearly arent.
I agree that the balancing of conseqence is off regarding crime ie victims loss v perps potential punishment and thats where the issue is at the mo not necessarily with how people what to play. Some mechanic that forces the attacker to pay back damages to the victims should they be caught would make things interesting.
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