Cheaters are Everywhere

[Rall]

Why the hell is FD not hosting the critical files server side, or having the server scan client files to see if they've been altered in anyway and auto ban?

This is incredibly shoddy design, the more I see threads like this the more I'm inclined to just go back to solo and stay there.

It's direct manipulation of memory registers on the clients machine. There's a couple of technology that can be used to address this, software that watch all low level systems access and what initiated it, we use similar systems on client machines in the enterprise to try and catch zero day exploits (traditional Virus scanning is all but useless these days). But ultimately technology solutions can always be circumvented by determined and skilled hackers. Even the mighty PS3 was cracked eventually.

The reality is cheaters will ALWAYS find a way, close one cheat and they'll find another - and they can do this much quicker than you can respond. The development resources needed to keep on top of this is massive, because the resources going against you will almost always far exceed your own. Even Blizzard with hundreds of millions if cash reserves and huge dedicated abuse development teams can't stamp out cheating in WoW, Starcraft and D3, if anything it's much worse than Elite.

Having used highly secure systems, they are the exact opposite of user friendly, often very resource intensive on the clients side. Things like protected, verified and encrypted memory are CPU intensive. Secure links have both band-witch and resource overheads. Server side integrity checks introduced added latency.

But in the enterprise I can dictate to the users the security posture of their devices, and they just have to put up with it or I just won't let them on the network. This is generally not suitable for a gaming client that demands maximum performance, how many of you are willing to take a 10-20 FPS hit for the sake of added security.

Fun fact, public naming a shaming actually works really well against cheaters, they really don't like being outed. Unfortunately these are generally ethically dubious at best, or outright illegal in some countries due to privacy legislation.

The best most companies can realistically do, is a responsive and efficient abuse team, this is where frontier is falling down, they should focus there efforts here.

 

[Rall]

Not that techno isn't this hard because it is a peer to peer relationship, there is no server to have files on..

The architecture is secondary, they'd still find a way to exploit it. Focusing on the type networking type isn't really productive, server/client games are just has heavily cracked and exploited as P2P, they can require more sophisticated techniques and more resources to break - but they still get compromised just as often.

 

[AndyC77]

This is the point.
I have noticed very little pvp cheating so far, even reports are few and usually explained away...


It seems that the player base is less like certain other games.

I think I have said this before, but players of this game far the most part are not greedy. They want enough to play the ship they want!

The exploits allowed this, and many players used them. I did some performance enhancer runs, I would have done more if I had the time!

But, maybe if the idea of credits for cash is too bitter...

PREMIUM SHIPS!

I would consider buying a cobra (Available at any station - A bit like a hire)
A spec - Standard load out (Perhaps fewer interchangeable modules)
But.... With an extra utility slot!

and...

The driver sits in the middle!


(No one would say a cobra is pay to win, but many would buy one for missions and such)

In fact any small ship could have a prem counterpart.

For £15 a prem Cobra
For £10 a prem Viper
For £5 a prem Eagle.

In a similar vain to WoT.

Absolutely no way. This is a terrible idea. This is the kind of thing driving the gaming industry into the dirt and the backlash is right around the corner. Thankfully though frontier have said they will no go down the real cash for content route. Thank god.

 

[Agarthan]

Not that techno isn't this hard because it is a peer to peer relationship, there is no server to have files on..

Then set up a server that hosts critical files or can check the critical files whenever two players meet in an instance, lock the files, if they've been tampered with ban the user. Problem solved.

 

[Soon(TM)]

Too many micro transactions and your risking turning this into a mobile game!!!!

 

[sutex]

Birds of feather, usually team up together , https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=144631&p=2234094&viewfull=1#post2234094 the lone hacker cant cope , they need the mirror of self importance provided by others around them

Maybe FDEV should read Foundation, get a database going , start seeing the relationships

 

[ciger]

Someone tried to post a thread about that guy last night, it was promptly removed.

naming and shaming rules, sure lets protect the cheaters and pretend all is just dandy

 

[LKx]

Then, Multiplayer infrastructure isn't out of beta yet?

 

[Jaeger]

It's direct manipulation of memory registers on the clients machine.

I came here wondering of the client mesh network code was to blame somehow, but this makes so much more sense.

Then set up a server that hosts critical files or can check the critical files whenever two players meet in an instance, lock the files, if they've been tampered with ban the user. Problem solved.

I'm thinking that to beat this kind of cheating something more sophisticated then just a server will be required. You want/need to be monitoring behavior on clients somehow rather than encrypting everything and doing round trips to a server.

Maybe an inference engine could/should be developed based/trained on recognizable cheaters patterns (is being shot at, shield are not going down). Running as a background service on each client, cross checking across an instance and reporting back to a ban hammer server.

That would be an interesting software engineering project.

- - - Updated - - -

Then, Multiplayer infrastructure isn't out of beta yet?

Exactly right

 

[Kayweg]

naming and shaming rules, sure lets protect the cheaters and pretend all is just dandy

Believe it or not, even alleged offenders enjoy privacy rights. Report them, including the link, and that's it.

Doesn't mean we can't discuss it, afterall the thread made it to page 16, didn't it ?

 

[Ian Phillips]

Please do not post videos claiming the person shown are cheats.

If you have video evidence of suspected cheating, submit it to FD via a ticket. Thank you.

 

[Smugallo]

'Here is my prediction: this game is going to be a cheat-fest with its P2P architecture and currently even no debugger protection.

First, you can just kill your process and that gets you out of combat. This is actually a fairly strong exploit just by itself. Frontier might try to do something about it (i.e. force some hull damage if it registers a DC while player is in combat) but right now it is the #1 choice for a trader caught in an unwanted interdiction. '


So yeah. Not looking good for open play.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

If a player cheats his way to the best ship with the best weapons and invincible shields and also has god mode... so what? It would only matter in the exceedingly minute chance I might ever run across him in this vast sandbox. He's just some lonely guy with an insecurity complex, I have more interesting things to occupy my time with in the game.

Because they are sitting around the CG hubs, mind you I watch some fighting some CODE yesterday an invul Anaconda outside the Pers station, that was kinda funny, but still not condoned.

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

'Here is my prediction: this game is going to be a cheat-fest with its P2P architecture and currently even no debugger protection.

First, you can just kill your process and that gets you out of combat. This is actually a fairly strong exploit just by itself. Frontier might try to do something about it (i.e. force some hull damage if it registers a DC while player is in combat) but right now it is the #1 choice for a trader caught in an unwanted interdiction. '


So yeah. Not looking good for open play.

Has no one on here read https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143287 ?

 

[Joe Spivey]

Because they are sitting around the CG hubs, mind you I watch some fighting some CODE yesterday an invul Anaconda outside the Pers station, that was kinda funny, but still not condoned.

Good, then FD will know where to find them. I bet these are the same guys that complain about players doing CG in solo too lol.

 

[graham.reeds]

You want/need to be monitoring behavior on clients somehow rather than encrypting everything and doing round trips to a server.

Maybe an inference engine could/should be developed based/trained on recognizable cheaters patterns (is being shot at, shield are not going down). Running as a background service on each client, cross checking across an instance and reporting back to a ban hammer server.

That would be an interesting software engineering project.

There are several of these projects already out there. Carbon and Watchmen are two of the big three (I have forgotten the name of the third).

While it is an interesting project, it is not exactly simple.

 

[malicious1]

Please do not post videos claiming the person shown are cheats.

If you have video evidence of suspected cheating, submit it to FD via a ticket. Thank you.

we all know how well thats working out too......they chose the worst platform for the game so they could port it to consoles as well..............there isnt a thing they can do with p2p the way it is.

stupidity in platform selection renders this a singleplayer game...thanks david

 

[Polar]

Its simpler than that.
Most of the cheating is for credits to avoid the "grind".. (I've read those forums) - So offer credits legitimately - even WoW does this now.
FD make money, folks will be less inclined to cheat when they can just legally buy the credits/toys they desire and the "gold farmers" (the ones most inclined to cheat/bot/farm) go out of business.

there really is no down-side. (I'm not trying to start a pay-to-win debate..).

The few exceptions, and I include myself in this list, is that sometimes reverse engineering a games logic can be almost as much fun as playing the game.. Hexrays decompiler/IDA isn't exactly cheap..

Hacking "UnEpic" was a royal pain in the bum.. they would just detonate your character if you monkeyed with state.. that was quite entertaining to defeat.

Having said that, I dont believe in cheating in MP games.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

 

[Polar]

This is the point.
I have noticed very little pvp cheating so far, even reports are few and usually explained away...

!?!? PVP is WHERE most of the cheating is happening!

This happens in every online game when there's open PVP. PVP is the REASON.

Combat logging
Shield hack

All PVP...

 

[GaryII]

......they chose the worst platform for the game so they could port it to consoles as well..............

This game was in Kickstarter project at start...I doubt that hardcore Elite fans would donate to console game...and then play with controller instead of HOTAS or Kb/Mouse...

- - - Updated - - -

Combat logging
Shield hack

You can cheat in Solo or Group, too And then go to Open with all your "earned" CRs...