Trader ships that can survive Open

[Han Brannigan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucking_industry_in_the_United_States#Serial_killings_controversy
Did you read this part? Just when I thought I finally managed to come up with a completely insane character development path (cargo hauler flips off and just loses it) I read this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhBoE56OEs

My role is as believable as yours.
This is only a game and we are all there to find some fun within its legal bounds. Until FD tells us that attacking cargo ships is not fair and not how Elite: DANGEROUS was meant to be played, I will stick to this role play.

You are playing a fringe lunatic - this is fine if you where the only one or if those ppl where less then 1% of the population. In MMORPGs they are not. Hence your role is neither believable to others ( tip if you have to do an explanation as to why your char does certain things its unbelievable ) nor enjoyable for them.

 

[Vagabond]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhBoE56OEs



You are playing a fringe lunatic - this is fine if you where the only one or if those ppl where less then 1% of the population. In MMORPGs they are not. Hence your role is neither believable to others ( tip if you have to do an explanation as to why your char does certain things its unbelievable ) nor enjoyable for them.

Yeah, that's the inherent problem with any MMOPRG.

I would guess that very few ingame pirates didn't fund their way into their ships initially with trading and then turned to pirating for the fun of it. Which is ironically the opposite to how it would be in the real world. Pirates are desperate souls in crappy ships who would turn to legitimate trade at the first chance.

In Elite, you get a disproportionate amount of pirates flying Anacondas and Clippers.

I can't see a real solution to this so I reckon it's just something we'll just have to accept.

In the end, it is a game.

 

[pluton]

Also ASPs have a top speed of 365 - you can't run. A top shield of 380 - not enough to last against a serious attacker let alone a wing. If I won't make it through the attack then why even bother?

This proves that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not sure what the shield number means, but my Asp can do 394 speed with 30t of cargo, dropping to about 382 with a full load.

I frequently get interdicted by CMDRs. I can usually escape to supercruise from anything except Clipper and FdL, which necessitate a hyperspace jump. Cobras (not powerful enough, don't mass-lock) and Vultures (too slow) are not a threat. So far Pythons (too slow) haven't been a problem either.

 

[Pendra]

The Cobra hauls 60t, flies at 442 and costs 2.3m. At 30 tons, it would fly over 455 and nothing in the galaxy could catch it. For 3.7 mils, the cobra could do 23 LY jumps.
Your ASP hauls 30t, flies at 392 and costs like 13 mils. And you are afraid of clippers and FDL. For 17 mils, the ASP can do 31 LY jumps. Come on, what is there to compare?
If you want something in the 30 tons range, try a Viper. Can ship 22 tons, flys at 420 and costs 0.8m.

If something, this shows that the ASP is not something I would trade in.

 

[TriumphANT]

Man, you need to put the Asp in there somewhere. Although it's technically an Explorer, it'll do around 90T of cargo, defends and attacks well, and mine hasn't let me down against PC attackers so far.

Roughly:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60g,01Q0_gmpU4wt4wt4wt4wt7u57u5,2-8I8c7_72728c8I,0AA7Su05U05U4zM03w2Uc

 

[deathmagnet]

The Conda build is deplorable. 11ly Jump Range? REALLY!? On a trade ship! That is a completely useless build. If you need a shield tank do it right.

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,m...09Y8SBaD88I,0Bk7UI0AA0AA08c08c08c0727go7go03w

I have been running that build in the Wolf 406 CG in open. The shields are absolutely bossy. If you cant afford that go to a 5A Shield. At 1100 MJS of shield you should be able to escape most if not any pirate attack

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,m...09Y8SBaD88I,0Bk0AA0AA0AA7Sk08c08c0727go7go03w

[video=youtube;Z5co1ETdeAY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5co1ETdeAY[/video]

It's really a great blockade runner for open play

 

[Pendra]

I honestly would. But where would it fit?
It is 5x more expensive than the Cobra/T6 with similar cargo cap. The price range is closer to the T7 but the cargo is abysmal compared to that.

The assumption was that the trader doesn't want to fight. Because he can't or won't or he is attacked by 4 clippers or whatever.


Please check the price range. Your Conda is at 225 mil. The T9 is at 90. You would expect better performance from something that is a lot more expensive. Again, I tried to compare apple to apple. Otherwise people would come in a say, the comparison makes no sense because that thing costs 3x as much. But it is good to know that 1100 MJ rated shields work quite as well.

At the Diso CG, my Cobra's range was 3.6 LY. Riedquat with its purifier production plant is 3.5 LY away, so I saved 2 tons, that yielded +1m/s. Not much but something.

 

[pluton]

The Cobra hauls 60t, flies at 442 and costs 2.3m. At 30 tons, it would fly over 455 and nothing in the galaxy could catch it. For 3.7 mils, the cobra could do 23 LY jumps.
Your ASP hauls 30t, flies at 392 and costs like 13 mils. And you are afraid of clippers and FDL. For 17 mils, the ASP can do 31 LY jumps. Come on, what is there to compare?
If you want something in the 30 tons range, try a Viper. Can ship 22 tons, flys at 420 and costs 0.8m.

The Asp hauls 88t with a size 5 shield and size 3 shield cell bank. It flies at 394 carrying 30t (a typical value while collecting rares in a dangerous area), but is still 380 with full cargo and full fuel (I avoid full fuel in dangerous areas).

I'm not afraid of Clippers and FdLs. I've escaped from them so far without fail. It just needs a hyperspace jump which I can otherwise avoid.

A 60t cargo Cobra has no shields. I doubt it would survive long enough to run from a competent Clipper, FdL, or perhaps even an Asp. It would be lost against another Cobra. I used to fly a Cobra with shields. Now that I can afford it, I fly an Asp with better shields, better capacity, better jump range and better fuel capacity.

I don't think you speak from experience.

 

[Pendra]

At 450m/s, you can be outside useful weapons range in 6 secs. Especially if you fly past the clipper while it deploys the hardpoints.

I did some Viper hit n run fun recently against a Vulture. I boosted to ~410 when I was about 500m from the Vulture, head on. My ship was 3+ km away by the time the Vulture finished turning to my direction. And that is the fastest turning ship.

Warships get kinda angry when you pop trade ships in a system they are supposed to patrol or BH. Even pirates get angry. Don't worry, I did my fair share of running away from clippers. This is nice because I can test the ship against real players with real intentions to pop my ships.

For rare trade, I use this setup
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=602,,2-3m6Q6Q5K4s5K5A,07207207203w03w4xo
56t cargo, 21 LY range + scoop while wait for FSD, 442 m/s loaded. And costs only 4m, not 15m.

 

[deathmagnet]

Please check the price range. Your Conda is at 225 mil. The T9 is at 90. You would expect better performance from something that is a lot more expensive. Again, I tried to compare apple to apple. Otherwise people would come in a say, the comparison makes no sense because that thing costs 3x as much. But it is good to know that 1100 MJ rated shields work quite as well.

Not sure if this was towards me but yes i know the Conda is 225 million which for a conda is not bad. Remember just for the hull your at 146million. 225 is only a 52% increase in price which isn't bad. You can easily double, triple or even quadruple the initial buy cost of some ships.

 

[retslag1]

I know I'm a griefer. The pirates are just muggers. The traders and explorers are just grinders. The BHs are just a Pew-Pew guys. And miners may suffer in some form of OCD.
I, unlike my role played guy, can tell the difference between real and imaginary. But in game, I just use my imagination and blaze my own path. I decided that I don't want to play a shining paladin, a hire gun or a jolly pirate. I went for something different.
My Captain acts the same way an U-Boot Captain would act. Like a cold blooded, calculating hunter who tries to spare his ship and destroy allied cargo.

Your role does nothing to make the game funner and is utterly unbelievable.

First off, I'm a trader and I don't like getting blown up for no reason, especially when I was first starting off and money was scarce.

However, you two debating are going round and round. Using your guys' logic and arguments, I'd have to agree with Pendra. Han saying that Pendra's role is completely unbelievable isn't quite true. Just turn on the (American, at least. can't say for other countries) news. Its full of seemingly random acts of crime, from robbery, to car jackings, to house fires, to murder. And if Pendra is role playing that this is a war, and he's hunting the enemy or defending a territory, then I'd say thats believable too.

Two issues that come to mind:
1) while Pendra's actions may be believable, the punishment/bounty/law response isn't. The acts of crime I mentioned above generally result in a response from a police force, instead of a simple bounty. It would be more realistic if not only the bounty increased for each person Pendra killed, but also more police ships spawned in the system he was in and were looking/hunting for him.

2) Pendra's role play is only believable (using his u-boat reasoning) if he is defending a territory or on the boarder of warring factions. It wouldn't make sense to see him in the heart of the Federation, as a lone Empire ship. Just as you wouldn't see a u-boat in the pacific, or sitting outside pearl harbor.

I don't really want to get involved in this debate any further, but I did feel like speaking my mind. I'll abstain from posting anything further.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

A 60t cargo Cobra has no shields. I doubt it would survive long enough to run from a competent Clipper, FdL, or perhaps even an Asp.

I do use a shieldless Cobra (see config below) to trade 60T of commodities in dangerous places (or rare trade run) and have NEVER EVER been caught. The technique I use is:
- 4 pips to engine
- boost
- chaff
- silent running
- boosts

With the fastest speed in the galaxy + silent running, your opponent lose lock on you (even missiles pass and explode ahead of you!) and you can then enable your FSD without any risk.
In the eventuality where you would need to enable FSD while being mass disrupted, you can still pop a heat sink.

My config:
http://edshipyard.com/#/L=602,mpW01Q0Wg,323I6Q6Q5K4s5K6k,07207207203w03w03w

 

[CMDR Derrida]

No matter how you spin it those loadouts suck, who would actually kit a ship out like that?... If you actually flew those ships you would understand.

You can risk no shields on a trade conda because nobody bothers to attack you, still for the paranoid this works

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,m...09Y8SBaD88I,0Bk0AA0AA0AA08c08c08c7Re07207203w

Shields on a T9 are fairly pointless unless you execute the correct escape procedure. They provide you a few extra seconds during the cooldown

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60Y,mpX01Q0_g0_g0_g,2-A0Ba9Y8S9Y6u9s,0DI0Bk0AA7Sk07207205U05U03w

No FSD disruption on the Conda, you can go straight to SC. T9, dump chaff, boost while holding upwards thrust, jump to the next system.

You advised me to do this on another thread - can't thank you enough! I'd heard about some technique where you could improve your boost, but I'd assumed it meant the top speed - what I didn't realise was that this technique you mention holds your boost speed at (or very near) max for a long time while engines cool - stopped timing myself at about 30 seconds. I find myself using it in all sorts of situations now, in all types of ships.

 

[Pendra]

Silent running, hm I have to try that. It has no shields so no loss to do that. This never occurred to me until now.
Chaff is pretty useless. At long range against a small target, gimbaled weapons are not overly effective. Fixed weapons on the other hand, hit you like sniper bullets. Silent running should fix that, too.
You top at around 426 I suppose. The armoring eats like 10 m/s. I met only one guy so far with a 440+ speed. He was attacking players in the Lave region. My ship was empty at that point, so I speed away at 460+. He was somewhat unhappy when I told him "good attempt, but next time bring something faster" .
My anti-trade ship U-Cobra is doing 452 at the moment.

 

[Kryfield]

Deleted: Wrong thread

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Chaff is pretty useless. At long range against a small target, gimbaled weapons are not overly effective.

The chaff is used at the beginning when the opponent is near. Anyway, the reload time of this thing is pretty long so hard to pop more than 2 before FSD is charged.

I ran into cmdr Bangfish (well known psycho who does not care about cargo) two times today:
- I could escape with almost no bruises in my T6 with paper thin shield+popping cells. But either he screwed up since he opened fire at me very late, or he used gimballed and could not get a lock due to chaff, hard to say. I used the T6 mainly to practice the emergency drop method and, if fail, see how that thing escape. I did not like the feeling to be canned food among sharks and went back to my Cobra for a little while.
- Then the second time flying my Cobra. While I lost some distance by typing him some messages instead of focusing on the boost (he remained around 1.8-2.2km), he could not damage my hull much which remained at 85% (had to high wake due to masslock though).

As a remark, i met him at the station entrance and was right next to him. I though about boosting into him to screw his entry...could have him get scanned like that and shot by the station?

PS: As far as i do not like psychos, those are making Elite really dangerous. i have nothing against Bangfish though I have the feeling i p*ssed him off

 

[CMDR Derrida]

The chaff is used at the beginning when the opponent is near. Anyway, the reload time of this thing is pretty long so hard to pop more than 2 before FSD is charged.

I ran into cmdr Bangfish (well known psycho who does not care about cargo) two times today:
- I could escape with almost no bruises in my T6 with paper thin shield+popping cells. But either he screwed up since he opened fire at me very late, or he used gimballed and could not get a lock due to chaff, hard to say. I used the T6 mainly to practice the emergency drop method and, if fail, see how that thing escape. I did not like the feeling to be canned food among sharks and went back to my Cobra for a little while.
- Then the second time flying my Cobra. While I lost some distance by typing him some messages instead of focusing on the boost (he remained around 1.8-2.2km), he could not damage my hull much which remained at 85% (had to high wake due to masslock though).

As a remark, i met him at the station entrance and was right next to him. I though about boosting into him to screw his entry...could have him get scanned like that and shot by the station?

PS: As far as i do not like psychos, those are making Elite really dangerous. i have nothing against Bangfish though I have the feeling i p*ssed him off

I've started using a vulture with two fixed beams (which it just about powers nicely) and 4*stacked chaff...catch out a few of those, just got my first vulture with gimbled pulse, think I'll go throw my weight around a bit, types

A way I use for avoiding some player commanders while trading, is if I suspect they are going to try to interdict me, i.e., getting behind me when I can't see a logical reason, I slow down and pop out of hyperspace, then boost a bit and target a neighbouring system to jump to. I'm not completely sure if this works because I've not yet had anyone follow my wake and hunt me down, however, the good thing about psychos who just want to blow up your ship, is that they usually can't be bothered with wake scanners which waste valuable shield booster/shield cell space...etc etc

 

[Pendra]

Checking your 6 is good, but it doesn't always work.

I fly toward the my target head on. At around 10 LY or so distance, I start to turn around. By the time I finish my turn, the target is usually in front of me.

The other simple method is flying in front of the target, same direction. Like you are going to the same station. Then just slow down, poof target in front of you.

And if you are really devious, you wait at the other side of the station. You can pick off everyone who overshoots by accident or tries avoid interdiction this way.

So the target was not followed or chased at all.

Using gravity wells is interesting. If you manage to fly into a planet or something during interdiction, you lose your attacker, who gets an interdiction fail long cooldown. You only get the fast submit cooldown.

Dropping out of FSD for no reason is a pretty good tactic. You sure leave a Low FSD, but by the time someone could drop in, your would be ready to jump out.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

4*stacked chaff

Do you mean:
#A To equip 4 chaff launchers but keep only on powered on at a time? Then, fire a chaff, power down the chaff launcher and power on the next one which should be ready to fire, avoiding the realod time of the previous one?
#B That if the 4 chaff launchers are powered on, they would only fire one at a time, subsequently?

I have never tried any of these since #A sounds like a hassle and a risk to do mistakes during a battle and for #B, i read that all chaffs fire in the meantime, giving no advantage.

 

[Pendra]

I never tried multiple chaff, but IIRC you can mount multiple chaff but one will be dropped at a time. Unlike with SCBs, where all SCBs will fire one charge when you press the button.