This. 8 characters
Technically my fault...but still unrealistic and dumb
- Thread starter Jackie McMackie
- Start date
This. 8 characters
Not in this game.
In the flow of combat 5 seconds is too long because, as I explained, you cannot react instinctively or use your experience to judge ship behavior on the fly. This results in unrealistic and gamey consequences. If two cops in flimsy Eagles are battling a pirate Anaconda and in the heat of combat you assist them without scanning the pirate the cops will turn against you. This is just plain weird and unrealistic.
It is not about being or wanting to be a savior. That derails what this is really about.
It is about the weird and unrealistic and gamey consequences of the current system. Would a cop kill you if you just saved his life, because you did not scan his would be murderer?
The game should allow for the player to develop his judgement skills in this respect. Instead it punishes you even if you make the right judgement. What the game should do is punish you only if you make the wrong judgement and attack an innocent.
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I've seen ornery NPC Anaconda down three or four waves of attacking system security, and high ranking NPC Vipers drop three or for before finally going down.
Attacking someone without knowing his identity is not allowed. There is nothing gamey about it.
BTW you totally ignore the bigger picture. With 1.3 you will be allowed to kill certain clean ships when you are aligned to a hostile faction. As said above, red doesn't mean wanted and ships fighting doesn't mean wanted either. So better get used to scan targets, because this is not going to change.
I do scan targets. I have been playing this game too long to not scan targets, but that does not change any of the arguments I made.
Even that is gamey. If you see someone attacking a miner or a cop you do not need to know his identity before you shoot. You know everything you need to know in that situation. Your experience tells you this.
My main argument is that the game punishes you for using your judgement based on experience and reacting instinctively accordingly.
I believe it would work very well for the combat experience in this game if it only punished you if you misjudged instead of punishing you for not scanning.
It seems many are afraid that this would completely change the game into something un-Elite, but I assure you it would not. I am too much of an old Elite fan to want that to happen. What it would do though is improve your combat experience and improve the flow of combat. It also would completely remove certain sources of frustration. You would only get punished if you attack the wrong ships, and you would get rewarded for making the right judgement in the heat of battle, even if you did not scan first. When you misjudge you know that you have only yourself to blame.
So the game would encourage you to develop your skill of judgement instead of neutering it.
And do not forget in the vast majority of situations you would still do the initial ship scan. People would still be careful, but by changing the scan mechanic a bit you would free combat from unnecessary shackles and frustrations and open it up for using your personal judgement based on your experience as a cmdr..
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I agree on this, (lose from what ever the op. did)
cos too me it seems unnatural to kill your own citizens in a spit second.
the hole system is unconnected to your own system status.
with that stations and systems have no identity.
wile they are operated by the factions you support or detest.
also all systems react the same wile they say they are different.
I hope today's update will change this so the hole game will come to life some more.
What you describe is more gamey than anything else. Rely on your judgement because the game doesn't offer anything else but black/white, criminal/clean, pirate/miner. Your judgment relies on knowing the game rules.
Gladly this will change with 1.3, we will finally get some grey and telling criminal from clean will not always be possible.
that's not the point.
its in the details , surly you should be attacked and fined.
but if you have a high standard is a system why not some more detail to it.
like losing reputation, the base ordering you to stop and come in.
police escord and so on.
not just only pew pew death.
We will see. I do not think it will change what I was discussing at all.
I think my arguments are sound.
Even after 1.3 a criminal attacking a miner will still be a criminal, and a criminal attacked by police will still be a criminal.
The game should allow for you to judge such situations on the fly without interference for all the reasons I stated earlier.
It will improve the general combat experience, without hurting the game in any way. There is no doubt in my mind about that.
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You're not going to get your ship back. At the moment that's just how the game works - just try not be trigger happy next time.
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I lost my Python a few times myself, with my previous loadout it was a 5mil rebuy. Luckily I easily make up on that by RES sites/trading within a couple of hours - not a huge deal.
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I lost my Python a few times myself, with my previous loadout it was a 5mil rebuy. Luckily I easily make up on that by RES sites/trading within a couple of hours - not a huge deal.
If you join a power you will be free to attack hostile powers in your systems without getting a wanted status. So someone attacking someone else is nor necessarily a pirate attacking a miner. Your judgment would not work there.
I´d have to see how that would work out.
I can´t imagine a miner in a RES being considered a hostile power.
Neither can I imagine police attacking an unwanted pirate.
Those situations are unlikely to change I think. I do not believe anything in 1.3 will actually influence what I was arguing for.
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The problem is not ADHD. The problem is simplistic arcade mechanics governing a sophisticated gameworld where instinctive gameplay should be the focus.
Precisely.
Your entire argument hasalready been invalidated in the first couple of pages of the thread: aligning real life laws too closely to Elite's is a fallacy: if you go into your shopping mall, you are not given a cash bounty when you kill wanted man after confirming he's wanted. Elite is more like the Wild West was.
Elite: Dangerous is a modern game, modelling a vast universe on a scale never before conceived in gaming. It's a game in which a player has to make their way unaided, figuring out the nature of the open world and their place within it, as they go without a storyline to guide them.
To facilitate immersion, the mechanics from the smallest things to the largest need to be designed so they can be worked out intuitively. This requires some nuanced mechanical thinking in the design process.
The criticism people are making here is not to change the game fundamentally, but to filter the experience with more subtle logic rather than black and white extremes of arcade game reality.
RPG games have been doing this for decades with modifiers based on the player's reputation and faction mechanics, both things that are in Elite right now. This discussion is about how to use them more effectively to improve and increase the player's ability to predict the consequences of their own actions more accurately.
I agree with this idea. I've been rather confused why the Wanted and Illicit Cargo warning messages are put in such out of view places given how important they are to the player's attention.
Lots of good suggestions have been popping up, here and in previous threads, if you are to notice. The fact that people against change choose to ignore those rather than discuss them further doesn't mean the concerns are invalid.
I wish it were that, but I think it is just that they are afraid of change, any change, period.
I can understand them being protective of a game they love. I am the same. I love ED and I am protective of it.
But I hope that my arguments will take away fear and show them that the fundamental mechanics of the game will not be changed in a harmful way at all and that it will only improve their experience.
Whether FD will ever implement the changes I am arguing for is a different matter.
In the end I will trust FD´s judgement, because it is their game and their vision and it worked out pretty good so far. In general I am extremely pleased with the development of ED.
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Same here. Being a bit of a perfectionist, when I really care about a game, I tend to take the time to be more critical with a view to improve it. So often, all these posts wanting changes are not because one dislikes the game, but actually the complete opposite, seeing the potential for it to be so much better.
I like your thought process to encourage the player to use their judgement to make calls, and then have consequences as a result, from which they must learn and decide their route. It's no different than giving us a game where we have the freedom to choose our own path to success, from several possible "careers", good and bad, or your own mix any or all.
People seem to think this is about making the game easier, but on the contrary, I'd make it more difficult if I had my way, but just more consistent. For instance, I think you shouldn't be allowed to bounty hunt at all unless you have a licence to do so in a system. That would make is clear that only system authority vessels have a licence to kill by default. Anyone else can only shoot in self defence or be considered a pirate or whatever.
To become a bounty hunter, you must be cleared to do so with a permit, which you earn by doing missions for the controlling faction and gaining a trusted rep. Then after that you pay a share of your bounties to the local system whenever you make a kill. In exchange for this, you are exempt from friendly fire misdemeanours and infractions, because when they scan you, they see you as an authorised hunter.
Now, instead, you clock up penalty points for repeated friendly-fire incidents on your licence, and eventually can mean that you lose your bounty hunter's licence altogether and have to re-earn it. Now I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't like all that extra work, but to me, ideas like that would make the game deeper, harder and better.
This story could have been brilliant but sadly you missed out the bit about not having insurance!!
I LOVE those ideas! I've been proposing the implementation of a bounty hunter license myself right from the start, several years ago, but your idea of friendly fire penalty points is a superb addition. It would add a cool dynamic to the whole thing. Absolutely love it.
Someone who committed crimes against a certain faction should not be able to obtain such a license from that faction.
For example someone who pirates in Federal jurisdiction can not be a bounty hunter in Federal territory, but he can be in good standing with the Empire and get a bounty hunting license for their territory.
Also if you have a fine outstanding you will not be able to cash in on bounties until you pay your fines first.
In the same grain I also would like the introduction of letters of marque through which a faction would direct you to pirate only ships belonging to a certain faction or sub faction. I am not into piracy myself, but I feel it would add a cool dynamic and depth to it.
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When you're done insulting me, I already said I was in the process of scanning it, except I shot a little too early which cost me my ship; I've done this before, and the bounties outweigh the fines I get in the no-fire zone, and yes, it was only an Adder, so I thought "why not?"
No need to tell me why about the "why not" now, but I've done this dozens of times before and I slipped up this time, but please, continue to tell me how incompetent and dumb I am, for I must be the only person with a Python in this game to be this stupid.
"How do you get a python and be this stupid? I'll tell you, you shoot someone before the scan finishes. That's how."
Again, what else can I do now? I've already made my thread in my fit of frustration, but I'm a dead horse, dead since the end of the first page, I'm obviously not going to try this again.
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Ive done this to in my Cobra in a RES. You know its a target with bounty but you shoot it before its scanned and WANTED shows. Then every fed turn on you like flies on a ....
Even if Dart Vader was in their claim they would release him and jump on you over 200 cr. Maybe make it able to contact a FED ship and get the bounty cleared out in space so you havent to go to base to clear it. Just and idea