Aaaaand this is why I don't play Open Play - and possibly ED

[random_tangent]

You're flying a ship you're not experienced enough to use effectively, in an environment you don't fully understand.

Now think, do you really want to play a game where someone inexperienced can take a "top ship" and always beat someone very experienced in a low-to-mid-level ship? Or is it better, once you take a step back, to have experience count?


This wasn't "jerks picking on noobs". You flew out to a RES to get some combat action... and found it... but it exceeded your ability to handle and survive. That's all.

Don't blame the other side of the hostility equation. That's what happens when you engage in hostilities. This time, you lost.


It's not something to pin on the other party, calling them a "jerk", just because they are a human pilot beating you instead of an NPC pilot beating you.


[edit]The reason he won the engagement wasn't because of hull upgrades. It was because he used the tools available to him in combat, and you didn't. It's not his fault you didn't.

Ok, but to be fair to the OP, there's only so far you can take the "the guy who beat you was simply doing something the game mechanics allow you to do, therefore he wasn't being a " defence.

What we're really talking about is griefing. It happens in every single shared-universe game where PvP is permitted. It's not that the guy was cheating, or exploiting. The OP's issue is that the guy was murdering people for kicks. I don't think he's really saying anyone should be prevented from doing this. I think he's just saying the law should come down hard on you. There should be consequences which make mindless killing an unattractive career choice. You either agree with that or you don't, but surely you can see the argument that unabashed griefing puts a lot of people off MMOs (and thus, Open in ED)? Not only is it frustrating to arbitrarily and unexpectedly lose a few hours (or more) of progress, but it's also pretty immersion-breaking. The fear of being killed wherever you go, for sport, is not a particularly rewarding or enjoyable sense of risk vs reward. Getting pirated on a trading run? Fair enough. Taking the risk is part of the thrill. Getting killed so someone can make youtube videos of them ganking noobs in expensive ships? Not so much.

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

Hello Everyone! I'm the Orca pilot in question during this! Allow me to clarify a few tidbits.

1. I, when playing alone, in my Orca will generally interdict and engage ANYTHING I can
2. I record these encounters becasue frankly it is hilarious scoring kills / forcing combat logs on big bad ships like Pythons and Anacondas with a Passenger Liner
3. This is not a case of "noob hunting" I don't even check the combat rank of my target as it is irrelevant how many NPC one has killed. Mostly Harmless - Elite it matters not, if I can have a fun engagement I go for it you never know how it will turn out.
4. Frankly the actual engagement was so short a modified law enforcement response any longer than instantaneous would have not changed things in the slightest.
5. I knowingly and intentionally Interdicted an Anaconda in a wing (although i didn't know what the wingman was until it arrived, and as a Cobra pilot myself I know they can be nasty dangerous ships)
6. You 110% absolutely DID need 4 pips to Sys. That is why yours shields folded in one go.
7. You have complained about this just about everywhere possible, not only quite vocally and colorfully in local chat which i have documented purely for entertainment purposes at this point. But you also went on someones stream and clogged up their stream chat whinging about this, then went and started it up on a comment section of a youtube video.
8. I am not a "griefer", or a pirate, or "psychotic in the real lifes as you so vehemently pointed out" I am someone playing a game for fun. I picked a fight with something by all rights and means should have lost to and came out on top due to frankly, being better. I have dozens of engagements like this a day, and 8/10 times end up becoming friends with and flying with people I've shot up or been shot up by.
9. This encounter is being uploaded to the tubes of you right now and should anyone want to see it feel free to fire off a pm as I can't openly post here to avoid shaming anyone.

Listen man, I get it you got kicked in the pride. As I told you in 3 other places today, get some combat experience with smaller ships, prepare yourself for the unexpected. Take it on the chin and move on. Everyone has lost ships for one reason or another, its all part of the learning process to lose them less of time in the future. Open isn't a big bad terrible place, sometimes a fight is all people want. By selecting open you are consenting to these kinds of interactions. Most people that know me will tell you I'm a friendly and helpful guy. This wasn't a personal attack on you you were just victim of circumstance #godknowswhatatthispoint

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Hello Everyone! I'm the Orca pilot in question during this! Allow me to clarify a few tidbits.

1. I, when playing alone, in my Orca will generally interdict and engage ANYTHING I can
2. I record these encounters becasue frankly it is hilarious scoring kills / forcing combat logs on big bad ships like Pythons and Anacondas with a Passenger Liner
3. This is not a case of "noob hunting" I don't even check the combat rank of my target as it is irrelevant how many NPC one has killed. Mostly Harmless - Elite it matters not, if I can have a fun engagement I go for it you never know how it will turn out.
4. Frankly the actual engagement was so short a modified law enforcement response any longer than instantaneous would have not changed things in the slightest.
5. I knowingly and intentionally Interdicted an Anaconda in a wing (although i didn't know what the wingman was until it arrived, and as a Cobra pilot myself I know they can be nasty dangerous ships)
6. You 110% absolutely DID need 4 pips to Sys. That is why yours shields folded in one go.
7. You have complained about this just about everywhere possible, not only quite vocally and colorfully in local chat which i have documented purely for entertainment purposes at this point. But you also went on someones stream and clogged up their stream chat whinging about this, then went and started it up on a comment section of a youtube video.
8. I am not a "griefer", or a pirate, or "psychotic in the real lifes as you so vehemently pointed out" I am someone playing a game for fun. I picked a fight with something by all rights and means should have lost to and came out on top due to frankly, being better. I have dozens of engagements like this a day, and 8/10 times end up becoming friends with and flying with people I've shot up or been shot up by.
9. This encounter is being uploaded to the tubes of you right now and should anyone want to see it feel free to fire off a pm as I can't openly post here to avoid shaming anyone.

Listen man, I get it you got kicked in the pride. As I told you in 3 other places today, get some combat experience with smaller ships, prepare yourself for the unexpected. Take it on the chin and move on. Everyone has lost ships for one reason or another, its all part of the learning process to lose them less of ten in the future. Open isn't a big bad terrible place, sometimes a fight is all people want. By selecting open you are consenting to these kinds of interactions. Most people that know me will tell you I'm a friendly and helpful guy. This wasn't a personal attack on you you were just victim of circumstance #godknowswhatatthispoint

Orca is OP



[edit]To anyone reading this thread and is unaware, putting 4 pips to the SYS capacitor reinforces your shields. Forum member heartorhead posted the following graph here:

This is a bit out of date, but a good graph. Shows the test shields folding in 8-9 seconds at 0 Pips to 2 Pips, versus 19 seconds at 4 Pips.

 

[Vasious]

Ok, but to be fair to the OP, there's only so far you can take the "the guy who beat you was simply doing something the game mechanics allow you to do, therefore he wasn't being a " defence.

What we're really talking about is griefing. It happens in every single shared-universe game where PvP is permitted. It's not that the guy was cheating, or exploiting. The OP's issue is that the guy was murdering people for kicks. I don't think he's really saying anyone should be prevented from doing this. I think he's just saying the law should come down hard on you. There should be consequences which make mindless killing an unattractive career choice. You either agree with that or you don't, but surely you can see the argument that unabashed griefing puts a lot of people off MMOs (and thus, Open in ED)? Not only is it frustrating to arbitrarily and unexpectedly lose a few hours (or more) of progress, but it's also pretty immersion-breaking. The fear of being killed wherever you go, for sport, is not a particularly rewarding or enjoyable sense of risk vs reward. Getting pirated on a trading run? Fair enough. Taking the risk is part of the thrill. Getting killed so someone can make youtube videos of them ganking noobs in expensive ships? Not so much.

Yeah but the tools were Silent Running, Heat Sinks, Ramming and Guns.
Those ARE supposed to be tools we can use, right?

And as for the Murdering for Kicks, the OP said he was told that and then despite saying he was in a ship he didn't feel happy engaging in PvP chose to engage, despite escaping several interdiction, he attacked and lost.

If you run into someone who says "I am killing noobs for you tube" they try to interdict you and you escape several time, but then choose to fight and then lose.
The Loss of Progress was... a result of your choice not to escape when you had the opportunity to

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

Yeah but the tools were Silent Running, Heat Sinks, Ramming and Guns.
Those ARE supposed to be tools we can use, right?

And as for the Murdering for Kicks, the OP said he was told that and then despite saying he was in a ship he didn't feel happy engaging in PvP chose to engage, despite escaping several interdiction, he attacked and lost.

If you run into someone who says "I am killing noobs for you tube" they try to interdict you and you escape several time, but then choose to fight and then lose.
The Loss of Progress was... a result of your choice not to escape when you had the opportunity to

I told him that! Thing was when the 4A shields dropped on the Orca he got a confidence boost, dumped power into his weapons and engines and went head on into me. 1000t of Orca disagreed with his strategy and crippled his Anaconda. Shields down on that ship is not an invitation for an unbuffered sys ram. It is the classic downfall of many overzealous pilots.

 

[random_tangent]

Yeah but the tools were Silent Running, Heat Sinks, Ramming and Guns.
Those ARE supposed to be tools we can use, right?

And as for the Murdering for Kicks, the OP said he was told that and then despite saying he was in a ship he didn't feel happy engaging in PvP chose to engage, despite escaping several interdiction, he attacked and lost.

If you run into someone who says "I am killing noobs for you tube" they try to interdict you and you escape several time, but then choose to fight and then lose.
The Loss of Progress was... a result of your choice not to escape when you had the opportunity to

At this point, I'm not entirely clear on what order things happened in to be honest! Did the 'tube thing come out after the engagement, or before?

I'm not sure it matters. I suppose the OP would say that he only engaged after his wing-mate had been engaged. Again, I'm not so sure it matters. In the real-world (I know, I know - hurrr realism!!11) if two people consent to a fight, then one kills the other, they still face a fairly stiff punishment. I think that is all the OP is really saying if you cut through the red mist. Being interdicted and fought to the death for no other reason than sport or amusement is what puts a lot of people off playing in Open, I suspect. To say "you consented to this by playing in Open" is to miss the point somewhat. Again, the guy isn't saying he didn't. He's saying he'd like it to be different. Really, it's less a criticism of the guy who ganked him, and more a criticism of Open mechanics.

As I said, you can agree with that or not. I suspect life would suck a bit more for Outlaw Jenner if engaging randomers just for the fun of a fight were punished extremely harshly, so he might say it's fine as it is. I'm really just saying, from a purely practical point of view, we surely all realise that the possibility of this happening, particularly for time-poor players, is why more people aren't in Open, for better or worse.

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

I suspect life would suck a bit more for Outlaw Jenner if engaging randomers just for the fun of a fight were punished extremely harshly, so he might say it's fine as it is.

I have mixed feelings on this. Frankly I'd be disappointed if the penalties were "too harsh" just based on the fact that a lot of great friendships have been forged through the rebuy screen on one end or the other. The key is to not get upset about losses. I'm not invincible nor do I delude myself into thinking I am. I lost an Orca the other day to a Vulture who wanted a rematch after I squished him in a res. I died, rebought my Great White, we shared some "good fights" and happily carried on a conversation about the game. Several of my closest wingmen have either been victims of random pvp, or victimized me. If you take pixel losses personal then it's your own loss. They are learning experiences, learn from them.

also the youtube comment came post engagement during the personal attack laden tear cascade at the station. It's not like "SMILE YOU'RE ABOUT TO BE RECORDED GETTING RUN OVER BY AN ORCA"

 

[Leper Messiah]

OP, you're never going to get much sympathy on the forums. I totally agree that the punishment for "murder"/ganking is FAR too lenient EVEN with the upgraded law and order.

People talk about experience, well duh, how are you supposed to get experience in the game? By flying the craft, there's no way of knowing the foibles of handling and loadout unless you actually take the ship out in that config, and all it takes is one ganker to destroys HOURS of gametime. Personally anything PvP is a malaise on our society bringing kids up to believe that some of the worst behaviour a human can do is acceptable. Oh it's a "GAME" I hear the shouts, Look at it this way:

Any "device" that society can use to teach people the best way to behave and treat other humans should be encouraged and anything that fails to teach that should be discouraged. Yet computer games fails miserably in teaching good behaviour towards other humans IMO, reinforcing pretty skanky behaviour and even rewarding it. Unfortunealty I think that we are in the realms now of actually having some worrying effects, it's another HUMAN being ganked, not some brainless emotionless AI, a HUMAN and the gankers just do not care a jot as long as it gives them their jollies. Surely decent people can see how that is a worrying trend? IT's NOT just pixels on a screen anymore, those pixels represent another person on another computer, it's THEIR pixels. I've been playing games since 1982, always disagreed with the nanny state "games are bad for kids" bull, but online/mmo's have blurred things a LOT imo. As soon as real people are experiencing negative emotions at the hand of another human then things are not right. Especially if the "psycho" is exploiting a lack of proper law and order/authority response in the game, and where the game allows for different levels of play style. So often the players are not on an equal footing. To me it's getting back to the bad old days of "I'm stronger than you I can do what I want to you", whereas we should be re-inforcing the ethos of "You are weaker than me, I should protect/help you". And once again before you all say it's just a game, look at how much you know about how badly disabled people are being treated in the UK RIGHT NOW, and how many of you give a damn enough to complain about it? That is a FACT right there as I'm a victim of the UK's shameless treatment of many disabled people.

Yes the game give the choice of playing as a "psycho", but it should ALSO have proper consequences for that play style, it SHOULD be the hardest way to play and survive. Authorities should HOUND the worst players with over whelming forces AND (as mentioned) at death the "psycho" should NOT get any insurance, Insurance SHOULD only be paid out for legal game play.

 

[random_tangent]

I have mixed feelings on this. Frankly I'd be disappointed if the penalties were "too harsh" just based on the fact that a lot of great friendships have been forged through the rebuy screen on one end or the other. The key is to not get upset about losses. I'm not invincible nor do I delude myself into thinking I am. I lost an Orca the other day to a Vulture who wanted a rematch after I squished him in a res. I died, rebought my Great White, we shared some "good fights" and happily carried on a conversation about the game. Several of my closest wingmen have either been victims of random pvp, or victimized me. If you take pixel losses personal then it's your own loss. They are learning experiences, learn from them.

also the youtube comment came post engagement during the personal attack laden tear cascade at the station. It's not like "SMILE YOU'RE ABOUT TO BE RECORDED GETTING RUN OVER BY AN ORCA"

Yeah, I suspected that was the case

You have a laudable attitude when it comes to this sort of stuff. 5 or so years playing CS back in the day taught me that most people on the internet don't share it, unfortunately I think my only problem with it is how "gamey" it feels. It's something you do purely to experience the fun of the combat mechanics - like an arena mode - rather than something which "makes sense" in the context of the in-universe open-world.

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

Yeah, I suspected that was the case

You have a laudable attitude when it comes to this sort of stuff. 5 or so years playing CS back in the day taught me that most people on the internet don't share it, unfortunately I think my only problem with it is how "gamey" it feels. It's something you do purely to experience the fun of the combat mechanics - like an arena mode - rather than something which "makes sense" in the context of the in-universe open-world.

It's a completely different set of interactions when you have an open world situation. The bonds that are created in are tighter, in my opinion at least. The way I see it I LOVE IT when someone beats me. If they can hand me my butt on a silver platter I want to be friends with them. Arena combat is just... meh. People put more effort into a fight when there is loss on the line. I have respect for opponents that fight to the death, and don't flap their gums afterwards (there is a difference between ribbing and personal attacks)

 

[ste]

The problem isnt the penalty for murder.. the problem is the penalty for death.

OP got to an anaconda... was killed once and isnt happy. Getting killed even just once in ED is unacceptable. Because like he said thats hours of work down the drain. If all that happened was he was killed and respawned back at the station like it never happened these threads would not exist. The orca would have been a bit of fun.

People do not want to die even once. In this game people want to play forever without being killed so much so they would rather sell their shields and play in solo.

I'm not sure if its the mentality of the players to blame expecting never to die or the cost of being killed thats too much.

But what can frontier do, Reduce the consequences of death? I dont think theres much they can do because until all that happens is when killed you respawn back in the station like it never happened these OMG he killed me and now I'm not playing threads will always exist.

If you reduce the consequences of death you get more people playing suicidally not caring about consequences because there isnt any.

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

The problem isnt the penalty for murder.. the problem is the penalty for death.

OP got to an anaconda... was killed once and isnt happy. Getting killed even just once in ED is unacceptable. Because like he said thats hours of work down the drain. If all that happened was he was killed and respawned back at the station like it never happened these threads would not exist. The orca would have been a bit of fun.

People do not want to die even once. In this game people want to play forever without being killed so much so they would rather sell their shields and play in solo.

I'm not sure if its the mentality of the players to blame expecting never to die or the cost of being killed thats too much.

But what can frontier do, Reduce the consequences of death? I dont think theres much they can do because until all that happens is when killed you respawn back in the station like it never happened these OMG he killed me and now I'm not playing threads will always exist.

If you reduce the consequences of death you get more people playing suicidally not caring about consequences because there isnt any.

It's not like my Orca is exactly free... with its 5.5m rebuy. I knew the risks by clicking the Launch button, I knew them even more intimately when I interdicted the Anaconda. It's all about awareness, I knew that 5.5 million things could go wrong from pressing launch until successfully docking again. Throw in PvP combat and you have quite a lot of weight on the situation. The difference here is I knew I could be engaged at any time, I also was looking for a fight. The costs are where they need to be. It added a lot of risk to a (for me at least) rewarding experience.

 

[random_tangent]

It's a completely different set of interactions when you have an open world situation. The bonds that are created in are tighter, in my opinion at least. The way I see it I LOVE IT when someone beats me. If they can hand me my butt on a silver platter I want to be friends with them. Arena combat is just... meh. People put more effort into a fight when there is loss on the line. I have respect for opponents that fight to the death, and don't flap their gums afterwards (there is a difference between ribbing and personal attacks)

I find all this really interesting - how someone can take it so personally, even though they have insurance etc. And yet some other people see it as a really positive game-play experience - a reason to play. I can see it from both sides, both as a former competitive online gamer, and as someone who has dabbled in MMOs. The latter are good at making you feel you never have enough time to get where you need to go. I think that's part of the reason people get so angry - it's a setback. Getting beaten in CS for example, is frustrating because you've been beaten on a level playing field - outplayed. Getting ganked when you weren't expecting it, when you don't have a combat loadout, for example, is frustrating because it has delayed you unnecessarily (from your point of view). I think if two guys are out cruising for a fight (and maybe this is self evident) and encounter one another then the loser is less likely to react badly. A lot of players who aren't take it so hard because they feel like they've been killed for no reason. If you approach it as if you're just enjoying the combat mechanics and looking for people to test your skill against, then that itself is enough reason. But that's what I meant when I said "gamey". From an RPing point of view, a "realistic" character isn't necessarily as prone to regularly risk their life purely for the joy of combat.

It's a tough balance to get right. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is, because equally you don't want a universe where most people only stay in the "safe" areas, and all the PvPers are just in their own dedicated areas - might as well just have different servers, which is obviously how a lot of games DO handle it.

 

[Marra Morgan]

People talk about experience, well duh, how are you supposed to get experience in the game?

By playing the game? The only way to properly test your combat configuration is to actually go out and do some combat. If you lose, you've learned that your set-up isn't too good. Try again.

Personally anything PvP is a malaise on our society bringing kids up to believe that some of the worst behaviour a human can do is acceptable.

How do you feel about chess? Genuine question.

Any "device" that society can use to teach people the best way to behave and treat other humans should be encouraged and anything that fails to teach that should be discouraged. Yet computer games fails miserably in teaching good behaviour towards other humans IMO, reinforcing pretty skanky behaviour and even rewarding it. Unfortunealty I think that we are in the realms now of actually having some worrying effects, it's another HUMAN being ganked, not some brainless emotionless AI, a HUMAN and the gankers just do not care a jot as long as it gives them their jollies. Surely decent people can see how that is a worrying trend? IT's NOT just pixels on a screen anymore, those pixels represent another person on another computer, it's THEIR pixels. I've been playing games since 1982, always disagreed with the nanny state "games are bad for kids" bull, but online/mmo's have blurred things a LOT imo. As soon as real people are experiencing negative emotions at the hand of another human then things are not right. Especially if the "psycho" is exploiting a lack of proper law and order/authority response in the game, and where the game allows for different levels of play style. So often the players are not on an equal footing. To me it's getting back to the bad old days of "I'm stronger than you I can do what I want to you", whereas we should be re-inforcing the ethos of "You are weaker than me, I should protect/help you". And once again before you all say it's just a game, look at how much you know about how badly disabled people are being treated in the UK RIGHT NOW, and how many of you give a damn enough to complain about it? That is a FACT right there as I'm a victim of the UK's shameless treatment of many disabled people.

You're taking the thread from comedy Anaconda loss to the Conservative government's policies on the disabled?
My Godwin senses are tingling...

 

[Outlaw Jenner]

I find all this really interesting - how someone can take it so personally, even though they have insurance etc. And yet some other people see it as a really positive game-play experience - a reason to play. I can see it from both sides, both as a former competitive online gamer, and as someone who has dabbled in MMOs. The latter are good at making you feel you never have enough time to get where you need to go. I think that's part of the reason people get so angry - it's a setback. Getting beaten in CS for example, is frustrating because you've been beaten on a level playing field - outplayed. Getting ganked when you weren't expecting it, when you don't have a combat loadout, for example, is frustrating because it has delayed you unnecessarily (from your point of view). I think if two guys are out cruising for a fight (and maybe this is self evident) and encounter one another then the loser is less likely to react badly. A lot of players who aren't take it so hard because they feel like they've been killed for no reason. If you approach it as if you're just enjoying the combat mechanics and looking for people to test your skill against, then that itself is enough reason. But that's what I meant when I said "gamey". From an RPing point of view, a "realistic" character isn't necessarily as prone to regularly risk their life purely for the joy of combat.

It's a tough balance to get right. I'm not entirely sure what the answer is, because equally you don't want a universe where most people only stay in the "safe" areas, and all the PvPers are just in their own dedicated areas - might as well just have different servers, which is obviously how a lot of games DO handle it.

Yeah I'm normally an avid RPer, however with Elite I said I'd give it a pass and use it purely as a space combat game minus all the creative legwork. I really like how you approach the situation rationally and can see both sides of the coin. The "casual" open players should also see the fact that, sometimes there aren't a lot of player targets, and a lot of times when there are they will fight until they are losing then do shady things like combat log. That takes a lot of the chance for communication out of the equation as to get my kill I have to react fast, very fast lest my target pull the plug. I still count combat logs as mini-victories but what does that gain the person on the receiving end? Nothing. They don't get incentivised (i murdered the spelling of that) to get better, they don't ask what they could have done differently. It's not just giving ammo and insurance rebuys to targets. Sometimes they ask questions beyond "why?" and you can really strike up a great discussion about things. Sometimes that 2 hours grinding time lost gains months of experience in education for both parties. I know when i get beat I always ask what they're running, their flight style, if they have footage of it I can see because I as a player want to constantly get better. I mean c'mon, a 'conda is the big dog. That's a juicy hardcore fight and a true test of your mettle. Throw in a wingman... Ok now I've definitely roped myself into a no win scenario... let's see how this goes. Anyone can slaughter NPC's all day long, get out there and fight for something, or fall for everything.

 

[fademist]

Let's see if I can manage to do this without violating a rule and getting this thread locked or deleted. Here goes nothin'.
.
First off, a little history. I started playing back near the end of beta, so I've been around for a little bit. When I first started, I played Open Play exclusively. After all, that's one of the major features of this game, the ability to play with other people. I got killed a few times, but everyone was still in crappy, new ships, so it didn't matter. Nothing really mattered, because learning was what was important, and starting over was no big deal.
.
Then I started trading, and after a while, dying would end up costing me hours of work (between rebuy and cost of haul), and knowing how people are, I could not accept this risk, so I went to solo/private group to get some trading done in peace. Well, I became addicted to not dying while flying a defenseless ship, and worked my way all the way up to an okay-ish Anaconda (a little over 200m). Nothing to write home about, but after days and days of flying Type-Xs, it was awesome.
.
So, my brother and I decide to play together. I make the decision to play in Open Play - my first mistake. I jump out to him, we head out for a RES. There are a couple other players in-system, but they're all apparently clean. We're almost to the RES, and I get interdicted by an Orca. I submit, it's a player. He deploys but doesn't fire, so I figure he's scanning me; I have no bounties, so I'm not worried. My brother drops to me just as I'm jumping out; I tell him to jump back out. Dude starts attacking him just before he jumps out - and my brother is only in a basic Cobra. After some running around, I finally get sick of playing, and engage him. He springs the trap (silent running, heat sinks, upgraded hull, ram and guns). I jump out, he catches up, kills me.
.
No cargo. No bounties. He didn't get anything out of the engagement except the enjoyment of killing a "noob" in an Anaconda (for the record, I'm not completely stupid; I had my rebuy cost).
.
But that's not even the issue. It's that the criminal justice system in this game is pathetic. Report crimes against me? Useless. The guy MURDERED me. And what will the cops do about it? "SCAN DETECTED... Just murder, no illegal cargo? Move along." Just... no.
.
Ultima Online, the first MMO, had a better justice system than this game. Five kills of innocent players, and you turned Red, meaning you were Killed On Sight by town guards until you turned Blue again - eight hours per kill, making you town-less for FORTY HOURS of playtime. There is nothing even close to that here. Bounties? Please. A bounty is as much of a deterrent to people who get their kicks ruining other people's fun as a piece of paper is to an asteroid.
.
"Name of the game, noob. You're dangerous. *whips off Aviators*" Oh yeah? Dangerous to who? Because from what I can see, the game is only dangerous as long as you, yourself, are not part of the danger. The moment you stop seeing your fellow players as potential allies and start seeing them as prey, you minimize their ability to prey on you.
.
But you know what? I don't really want to play a game where I have to assume that everyone is going to kill me just because they can do so with a minimum of consequences, when it has taken me literally days, weeks to get where I am. I mean really. A bounty, for murdering someone, possibly eliminating days or weeks of work in a matter of seconds - and that's IT!?

isnt games fault that some bad things happen accept that u made a choice and played at open ...u could have the same or more fun at private group with u and ur brother only

 

[Innigo]

Part of the problem imho is that systems that *should* be safe simply aren't. The cops, as they operate now, are of little use. A player with a bounty should be fleeing an area at the first opportunity and stations should do a basic scan as a matter of course to determine your status - if you're wanted in that area docking should be off the table, you need to off elsewhere. Note that; requesting docking clearance whilst stealthed should result in a denied, although a stealthy entry to avoid cargo scanning should be unaffected (just do it AFTER you get clearance).

Pirates and griefers should naturally be pushed out to the less civiliized areas of the galaxy because in the more civilised areas it should become difficult to operate unless doing so in force (which I'm fine with).

I'm all for piracy and PvP but to encourage people in to open that HAS to be safe areas imho.

 

[streki]

ED is really unique and in its own category - MMORPS - Massively Multiplayer, Online, Role Playing Sim.

Its a mostly-sim, with game-like elements type affair.

 

[Leper Messiah]

By playing the game? The only way to properly test your combat configuration is to actually go out and do some combat. If you lose, you've learned that your set-up isn't too good. Try again.

Yeah that was my point, people slagging off the OP for having no experience. Not EVERY learning expereience HAS to be negative. Does a child learn to ride a bike better by wobbling a bit or by falling off? How about a child learning to ride then a bigger kid comes along and SMACKS him off the bike, is that a good learning experience?

How do you feel about chess? Genuine question.

Every chess game starts with piece parity, what happens in Elite is someone having more pieces than another and the loser of the match loses even more pieces (he paid for) until he has no pieces left. How many people would bother with chess if those rules were in place?

You're taking the thread from comedy Anaconda loss to the Conservative government's policies on the disabled?
My Godwin senses are tingling...

"Although falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose his argument or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate"

Society is judged on how it treats its most vulnerable, modern UK society is failing miserably with it's selfish self centred out look. I'm not 100% blaming gaming culture for that, it would be stupid indeed. I'm saying society is getting more selfish, maybe it's a case of art imitating life I dunno, but either way I think the direction of society AND games is currently wrong.

and sorry but your statement "comedy Anaconda loss", <shakes head>

 

[random_tangent]

Yeah I'm normally an avid RPer, however with Elite I said I'd give it a pass and use it purely as a space combat game minus all the creative legwork. I really like how you approach the situation rationally and can see both sides of the coin. The "casual" open players should also see the fact that, sometimes there aren't a lot of player targets, and a lot of times when there are they will fight until they are losing then do shady things like combat log. That takes a lot of the chance for communication out of the equation as to get my kill I have to react fast, very fast lest my target pull the plug. I still count combat logs as mini-victories but what does that gain the person on the receiving end? Nothing. They don't get incentivised (i murdered the spelling of that) to get better, they don't ask what they could have done differently. It's not just giving ammo and insurance rebuys to targets. Sometimes they ask questions beyond "why?" and you can really strike up a great discussion about things. Sometimes that 2 hours grinding time lost gains months of experience in education for both parties. I know when i get beat I always ask what they're running, their flight style, if they have footage of it I can see because I as a player want to constantly get better. I mean c'mon, a 'conda is the big dog. That's a juicy hardcore fight and a true test of your mettle. Throw in a wingman... Ok now I've definitely roped myself into a no win scenario... let's see how this goes. Anyone can slaughter NPC's all day long, get out there and fight for something, or fall for everything.

I'm not sure it's possible not to murder that spelling! Yeah, all of that makes sense. I wonder if it's possible for everyone to get what they want? I think that question goes beyond PvP too. This has come up in other areas of the forum, but emergent game-play vs generated content. Again, I can see why both are enjoyable, but for me, content always wins out. I think that's because I like to suspend disbelief when I play a game. I like to imagine that this world I'm in is real, and the character I'm playing is real, and the story being played out has real consequences. Once other humans are in the mix, some of that magic is lost for me. I enjoy content for the same reason I enjoy watching a movie or reading a book, only it's one level up, because I can interact with the world. I made reference on another thread to chatting about this with friends who play a lot of Eve. Ultimately I think it just comes down to personal preference, as with so many things. I will get in to Open one of these days and try some PvP though. What's putting me off at the moment is the shield tank/SCB aspect of it.