theres no dangling carrots to tempt them is there?
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Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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Well yes, there is. If they all got into a PvP group equivalent of Mobius they would be absolutely sure that everyone they encountered would be well-up for righteous almighty pew-pew. That is the carrot. However, it appears that the pew-pew-crew only want meat
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why u expect something else?Well yes, there is. If they all got into a PvP group equivalent of Mobius they would be absolutely sure that everyone they encountered would be well-up for righteous almighty pew-pew. That is the carrot. However, it appears that the pew-pew-crew only want meat
Who are you to say that my "mindless pew-pew" as you say, I call it piracy, makes me any less of a real player than a trader?
Being the dog on a chain, surviving off of a trader's table scraps, doesn't sound like fun to me. If I'm going to play a video game, I'm going to enjoy doing it, not doing something for the warm fuzzies. I volunteer at a soup kitchen for that.
If traders are allowed to thrive and prosper from third party tools and avoid learning basic game mechanics, that sounds like their own problem. When you have your meals delivered to you and become fat and complacent, you can't complain when you get shown up by the better hunters. Survival of the fittest, baby. Either you become a strong and deadly predator, fast and elusive prey, or a succulent and filling meal. That's true for pirates, bounty hunters, as well as traders and miners.
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From someone who says they want the carrot, I expect the carrot. But from someone who says they want the carrot, but in their dark hearts really want the meat, well....
That "awful p2p" was a design decision made years ago, not a mistake, I really doubt FD will change it now.
Its not a PVP game, it was never meant to be a PVP game, some people didn't do any research before buying, that's life, maybe they will learn next time.
PS combat logging is a known cheat & FD will deal with cheats, do you really class "(p2p, solo&private VS open mode and other limits like combat logging etc)" as the same thing?
Or perhaps an entry on a routing table
Not that I do that of course, but there are plenty of people who will - and even strong and deadly predators can do Football Association about that.
any pvp equivalent of mobius will just become a duelist's paradise. Pirates won't have any traders to hunt, bounty hunters won't have any pirates to hunt, and it'll just be griefers and duelists.Well yes, there is. If they all got into a PvP group equivalent of Mobius they would be absolutely sure that everyone they encountered would be well-up for righteous almighty pew-pew. That is the carrot. However, it appears that the pew-pew-crew only want meat
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And while we're at it, there's also unlimited shield hacks and one hit kill cheats. People will cheat to win, that was never up for debate.Or perhaps an entry on a routing table
Not that I do that of course, but there are plenty of people who will - and even strong and deadly predators can do Football Association about that.
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Exactly. That is precisely why I said that it's a problem that so many people apparently consider Elite a game to win in, rather than a game to play.
Cheaters never win, because they never play the game.
Or to put it another way, too many people want to be the wolf, not enough want to be the sheep.
That is why mobius has nearly 10k players (pve) and the wolves (pvp) can't form a similar size group, if they all took a turn playing the trader it could work really well for them, seems they all want to be the wolf.
what debate to do about cheaters?..what ever we say only FD can do something for them
Bizarrely enough - in another game my guild and I (yes, I really did say that) would run low-level characters into the PvP area and take screenshots of us sitting outside the enemies base to show just how awful their squad planning and player co-operation was. It was of course our own guild and our entire side that we were showing where they went wrong. Lessons learned on both sides. There were no in-game consequences doing so. Elite PvP could work beautifully if players could somehow do something similar, with pew-pews swapping to traders and bounty hunters turning pirate - and just generally having a bit of fun with the other side. Some people even seem to believe that is almost encouraged in Elite - "U sh0t ma trader up so nao I'z gonna get my Vulture an pew pew u for lulz"
However, the game is not designed that way. There are consequences - I just wish they were even more severe.
I meant for the traders. For piracy there has to be wolves and sheep. Who would want to be a sheep for nuthin? Now just give an open trader a significant danger bonus through anarchy systems and you've got something worth sheeping about. If I was sitting there considering 1000 per ton in solo vs 10000 in open, my finger may waver on that other option. Because there is always that chance you may make it through without incident...the carrot on a stick.Well yes, there is. If they all got into a PvP group equivalent of Mobius they would be absolutely sure that everyone they encountered would be well-up for righteous almighty pew-pew. That is the carrot. However, it appears that the pew-pew-crew only want meat
And then u would had yelling about it like we had and have again for the repair bills ;p
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Even with that the carrot wont be good enough...except u mean to have open that pvp allowed only on 200ly away from human space
This is a very good point. Most Anarchy systems seem to have far too much of everything. Prices are not too far off normal - although I admit it's been a long time since I paid much attention to prices anywhere. They shouldn't have hundreds of tons of anything if there is no government to control the system - the place would be looted dry within hours. You only have to look here on Earth to see what happens when a group thinks that Law is no longer enforceable - break-ins and lootings within minutes. That is where Pirates should be operating - looting off NPC ships carrying stuff out, and pirating PC ships attempting to supply things in. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that
You are so misguided its not even funny, do you only ever see the bad ?
Here is an example of how the game would be amazing for PVP players.
Power 1 (Federation) sends out 3 players into an exploit system to kill NPC's. Power 2 (Empire) sends 3 players to defend those NPC's. Both groups of 3 players are flying PVP Ships - there is NO traders or seal clubbing involved in this scenario.
It's a pure power vs power combat scenario, real players, real risk and challenge - with good rewards. MEANINGFUL PVP. No seal clubbing.
At the combat zone, a player 3v3 breaks out. People DIE, insurance matters and the victors get a merit reward RELATIVE to the enemies killed (to stop abuse and killing friends over and over)
What happens right now in Elite?
click Solo > grind NPC's/Trades until 5000 merits > LOLOLOL
Why? Because solo is so much safer and lucrative. Even Open-players have to use solo to be able to compete in community goals and power play fairly.
Yes but in this game there is massive pvp imbalance in weapons and ships
but also in gameplay mechanics. Like submitting, high fsd and other stuff - just basic problems that are still here.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If we look at the ship rather than the player, the Hauler, Type 6, etc. are the in-game baby seals (i.e. trade optimised ships) - unable to defend themselves against the attentions of the Viper, Vulture, etc. (i.e. combat optimised ships).
Of course players could change ships (if they can afford it) and install modules to aid escape (if they can afford it) - but that is those players changing the way that they play.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It can be argued that interdiction submission (reduced delay until FSD is available) and no-mass-lock on hyper-jump do balance (to an extent) ship and weapon imbalance.
Short of us all playing in the same ship with exactly the same loadout, there will always be ship and weaponry imbalance.
They could make it rock paper scissors for some designs.
right now frag cannon for instance, is flat out useless.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If the game was all about PvP then it might be easier to attempt to balance ships and equipment - but it's not, so ship and equipment balance will probable not be achievable (short of adding significant defensive buffs to pure trading vessels for example).
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