Galnet E3 announcement by president Hudson?

[Lord_Crazy]

Other than by the development effort and $$$ (some of them ours) being diverted into such sideshows and away from the DDA and what the game that we backed with our money was supposed to be. But yeah, other than that no reason to be annoyed at all.

Well backing a project does not entitle you to anything. You are not an owner or an investor. You may be a very nice person pledging for something, period. That dues not give you the right of "I spent more money make the game I WANT before what others want".

Besides, assuming arguendo that money is a valid point, well arena thingy might end up bringing in more players, making the devs able to further their vision more with it than without it. So this is also in the backers' interest.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I get your point but I disagree. No matter how big the galaxy is, people want to fight quickly and easily. A galactic battleground does not help in the sense that picking up a good fight requires looking for it, knowing where to go, and then loosing millions because your ship blew up. Now that is a gameplay some people like and I respect that.
On the other hand let's look at people like me, who cannot spend more than 3 hours a week on the game. Well right now PvP for me is almost impossible. Why? Well it requires me to take time to look for a warzone. Then I need to have other players in it. Assuming it happens then I must be ready to loose hours of game in the form of hard earnt credits, sometimes after just a minute of fight. Under these circumstances PvP becomes waaayyy less fun than it could. Because I basically need to play hours to be able to afford few minutes of fight.
The arena mod as I see it should not replace PvP. It should be an additional feature with no consequence on the background simulator, but at least letting people like me having fun sometimes instead of having to wonder every time "OK can I afford PvP today?".

Personally I question the current game mechanics. I don't engage in game with PvP for the same reasons as you. In my own opinion there is a flaw in the game design. I don't think an arena actually corrects that flaw, it simply evades it. But yes it would game PvP easier. It's just a shame the galaxy wasn't designed from the ground up with that in-mind. Seems Frontier might possibly have realised this only at the eleventh hour, and even then only after people continuously point it out to them.

 

[Beetlebum]

Beetlebum, I'm agreeing with you!!

All I am saying is that I don't feel a Deathmatch Mode is in the spirit of the game Frontier pitched 2.5 years ago. But I agree with the point you are making...

My guess is that you are afraid that the whole game is going the pew pew route now. Is that right? I would be highly concerned if that would be the case as well. But I don't see it coming just because of one update that makes the pew pew crowd happy. There are too many advantages, from the business standpoint we talked about to the weapon experimenting and just the fun of fighting, for FD to make it not happen. It also fits in the game world pretty well. A future without simulators? Come on... ;-)

 

[clavain]

Well backing a project does not entitle you to anything. You are not an owner or an investor. You may be a very nice person pledging for something, period. That dues not give you the right of "I spent more money make the game I WANT before what others want".

I'm not saying it does. I'm explaining to you why people are annoyed, which you seem to not understand. And to take your argument one step forward, why are you entitled to more PvP features exactly?

Besides, assuming arguendo that money is a valid point, well arena thingy might end up bringing in more players, making the devs able to further their vision more with it than without it. So this is also in the backers' interest.

Right- see my edit above. Make it a paid expansion that does not affect the rest of us, and give us the other planned expansions free first then, if we are such a minority.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

My guess is that you are afraid that the whole game is going the pew pew route now. Is that right? I would be highly concerned if that would be the case as well. But I don't see it coming just because of one update that makes the pew pew crowd happy. There are too many advantages, from the business standpoint we talked about to the weapon experimenting and just the fun of fighting, for FD to make it not happen. It also fits in the game world pretty well. A future without simulators? Come on... ;-)

Only in an indirect manner. What I was hope from Elite, is a game that lives and reacts to players actions. A player finds a trade route and keeps shipping cargo holds full of gold, eventually an NPC pirate faction figures this out, and generates a mission on that player. Or a player gets a mission to assassinate a political leader, whilst another player gets a protection mission. Or a player finds an extremely rare metal in a ring system, and an outpost is built to construct the game. All of this stuff may still come for Elite at some point...but my (perhaps unfounded) thoughts are that the further Frontier make Elite a ladder based game that focuses on progression bars and arenas, the less likely we are to get that other type of content. As it could be argued, quite successfully and reasonable - though maybe not entirely correctly - that those two types of game systems are in opposition to each other.

No reason we can't have one without the other. But it feels to me (and perhaps it shouldn't), that we are getting content which is taking Elite in a different direction to those dynamic elements Frontier spoke about.

 

[Cosmo]

I'm not saying it does. I'm explaining to you why people are annoyed, which you seem to not understand. And to take your argument one step forward, why are you entitled to more PvP features exactly?

We're not entitled to anything, we can only express our opinions and make suggestions. There's people who support arena features too.

Make it a paid expansion that does not affect the rest of us, and give us the other planned expansions free first then, if we are such a minority.

It will be another optional feature that players don't have to use. It's not big enough for a standalone expansion.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

Personally I question the current game mechanics. I don't engage in game with PvP for the same reasons as you. In my own opinion there is a flaw in the game design. I don't think an arena actually corrects that flaw, it simply evades it. But yes it would game PvP easier. It's just a shame the galaxy wasn't designed from the ground up with that in-mind. Seems Frontier might possibly have realised this only at the eleventh hour, and even then only after people continuously point it out to them.

I know what you mean but I don't see it as a flaw. I kightbe wrong but it seems to me that in ED one rule is actions have consequences. One of them is that loosing your ship costs you. I am fully OK with that. But that does evidently impact PvP. So yes arena might be a way to evade that point. Here again I am OK with evading it in a particular context, because it is a good point and I don't want it to be changed, arena being an exception.
Anyway a Pilot Academy might make it sound less scary than Arena. Pilots would be in a virtual reality shooting at each other without spending too much credits. From a RP or scenario viewpoint it is also acceptable. Also the VR explains pretty well why we would fight in a close envirinment and why our "kills" actually don't affect the background sim.

 

[Fireclown]

If there are some optional pvp instances that attract more players and sell more Xbox games so they have more money to do other stuff that's fine.
Depending on the way it's implemented I would certainly have a go.

Player driven open world pvp subtly encouraged by lore friendly events to funnel people into the same flashpoint area resulting in huge space armada battles is what I'm really after though. PP is sort of promoting that a bit but it's too dispersed.

 

[CMDR Brock Samson]

What are the indications that we're getting an arena?

http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/2xtsim/possible_13_spoiler_warning_may__off_certain/

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I know what you mean but I don't see it as a flaw. I kightbe wrong but it seems to me that in ED one rule is actions have consequences. One of them is that loosing your ship costs you. I am fully OK with that. But that does evidently impact PvP. So yes arena might be a way to evade that point. Here again I am OK with evading it in a particular context, because it is a good point and I don't want it to be changed, arena being an exception.
Anyway a Pilot Academy might make it sound less scary than Arena. Pilots would be in a virtual reality shooting at each other without spending too much credits. From a RP or scenario viewpoint it is also acceptable. Also the VR explains pretty well why we would fight in a close envirinment and why our "kills" actually don't affect the background sim.

Sorry the flaw I am referring to - at least what I see as one - is the fact that the game doesn't use the game mechanics it as to funnel players into conflict zones - forcing players to seek PvP out. It seems a little silly. Fireclown explains it in the same way I feel about it.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I don't think that a lot of people are annoyed by being offered options they aren't forced to choose. Thing is that people have asked for an arena mode. Some people are never happy, I guess.

Adding an arena mode that those players will never use after delivering what FD described to those players would be fine. Doing it before (or, worse still, instread of) delivering to their earlier promises is certain to get those players annoyed. I get it that I am no longer FDs new target demographic. I understand that getting new players into the game generates money to be spent on improving the game, and thus is in theory all good. But if those 'improvements' are things I do not want and are not the things that I do want, and felt I was promised (you know, like proper exploration), then again my nose will be put out of joint.

But I do know where I stand: FD have my money and are grateful for it, and have now forgotten all about me.

- - - Updated - - -

We are dis-railing this thread somewhat to be honest. But yes you are 100% right, it is merely my opinion that a deathmatch mode is not at all in the spirit of the game Frontier spoke about during Kickstarter and the early development period.

My memory is fading with senile decay, but I do seem to recall FD being consistently against the idea whenever it was brought up in the DDF

 

[ak785]

They have 400 billion stars, a procedural galaxy, 10 powers, 3 "empires", thousands upon thousands of small factions, trade routes, mining sites, supercruise, nav becons, outposts, pirate bases along with the ability to have all of these interact with each other in meaningful ways. I would like to think Frontier have more imagination than to make a PvP Arena when they have a galaxy of such magnitude and potential right at hand.

^ I agree with this

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

That's right. We are discussing the possibility of a deathmatch mode that we may or may not one day get, possibly.

Important point. I must ratchet my hyperbole down a notch or two.

 

[Roybe]

He also has a third choice, which is to come on the forums and post his opinion about the matter.

True! ;P The OP can choose to spend his free time any way he likes! Hopefully, I wasn't coming across as trying to silence him. That is never my intention.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

While personally I would have expected (and prefered) the ability to walk our ships as the first paid expansion's content, I am perfectly fine with an add-on featuring PvP arenas.

There are several reasons, something like this migth be interesting:
- Consensual PvP only. Everybody taking part in an arena figth did willingly chose so and I don't need to wory about forcing something on an unwilling player.
- Fair and interestinfg fights. 1 on 1 or groupes of equal numbers, but no wing of 3 Phytons shooting down a single Vulture.
- It is completely optional. Don't want it? Don't buy it! No free update "forces" this content on you!

I am definitely not a member of the targeted group (the galaxie's youth), but I would buy the add-on probably nevertheless.

(By the way: wouldn't it be an interesting feature, if it would be possible to bet credits on your own victory and add some "real" risk and opportunity to the fights?)

 

[Aegis I]

Great catch!

 

[Viajero]

If there are some optional pvp instances that attract more players and sell more Xbox games so they have more money to do other stuff that's fine.
Depending on the way it's implemented I would certainly have a go.

Player driven open world pvp subtly encouraged by lore friendly events to funnel people into the same flashpoint area resulting in huge space armada battles is what I'm really after though. PP is sort of promoting that a bit but it's too dispersed.

Instancing in Elite will prevent large scale battles. At the moment technical limit is assumed to be at around 20-30 ships tops.

 

[mossfoot]

I'd like to learn more about how this Arena mode works and how it fits in the larger game (or not) before condemning it. If it's just a feature, well, it's going to be something a lot of people will like and isn't every added feature just one more thing to fill out the universe?

My impression has always been that after the initial game was released the devs would have to pay attention to stuff close to home - combat being the thing the largest number of people would be interested in - and politics being the thing that would most "flesh out" a dynamic nature of the universe (and combat being a part of that too in its own way).

With that foundation laid, more attention will hopefully be drawn to other parts of the game, each direction fleshing things out further.

At least that's my take.

What I want to know is, why do some people simply hear the words "Arena Mode" and think it's the death of the game?

 

[Viajero]

Sorry the flaw I am referring to - at least what I see as one - is the fact that the game doesn't use the game mechanics it as to funnel players into conflict zones - forcing players to seek PvP out. It seems a little silly. Fireclown explains it in the same way I feel about it.

Fully agree. It is early days yet, but the few days so far, and from my location point of view at least suggest that player population, even PvP seekers may be too disperse at the moment. I am sure that PowerPlay can be tweaked to create incentives for more clear and specific hot spots. Certain systems being more critical than others for any gameplay reason, weather CC-wise or for other reasons.

Maybe the "green" preparation systems is that thing. But I am not sure players are getting it.

 

[Beetlebum]

FD have my money and are grateful for it, and have now forgotten all about me.

ED has my 120,- € as well and I am very pleased that they listen to "me" and finally add an arena mode (hopefully). It is the wisest decision they could make at this point from a business standpoint too. Besides: E3 hasn't even begone. Maybe we are all wrong or they have some for the explorers up their sleeves too. It is a little bit early to get too emotional, IMO.