The opposition still resides and conducts business there though.
The Powerplay discussion thread.
- Thread starter Matt
- Start date
The opposition still resides and conducts business there though.
Wait a second, I thought I read somewhere that the powerplay were no longer hostile to same-faction supporters. So Hudson are not hostile to Winters and so on.
If that's not happened then I agree that one or the other needs to change...
Well... Really, it doesn't have much effect on how you conduct business. Being labelled hostile due to Power Play power does not make you hostile to any Major or Minor faction. You only become fair game to Power Play faction ships, including players if they happen to be in a opposing power. You don't have to pledge to a power if this bothers you.
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I got deducted 40 merits for killing two of Winters' ships in a system controlled by Delaine. I'm with Hudson.
Something is wrong with PowerPlay
Forget it. My mistake. Must have been playing too much...
Forget it. My mistake. Must have been playing too much...
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PowerPlay Update Cripples the Profession of Piracy
Hello, fellow pilots.
I understand that this issue was brought up in a previous thread and I want to put that behind us. We are here to seriously discuss the effect of the the 1.3 Update on Piracy as a profession.
In the 1.3 update, FD decided to limit the possible cargo that a player may jettison/abandon to 20 tons each. This was to stop the "station bombing" tactics which generates severe lag. However, through this change, Piracy is severely damaged.
For that if a pirate is to ask for more than 20 tons of cargo, the release of cargo can only be done 20 tons at a time. Thus, the duration of piracy increases. This is lethal to a pirate for that police will arrive much sooner than a pirate can finish scooping dropped cargo even with Collector Drones.
Also, traders are hindered by this, as well. For that time is precious to traders, as well. The longer a pirate drags out the interaction, the more time a trader loses in gaining Credit/Ton/Hour.
There are several proposed solution to the issue:
1. Limit cargo limit to only stations and conflict zones.
2. Double commodity prices so that even 20 tons of cargo is worthy for piracy (but traders still get the same profit).
Ex.
Before change buy: 14k/ton sell: 16k/ton
After change buy: 29k/ton sell: 31k/ton
This thread is created to foster a productive discussion environment, please refrain from unfruitful conversations and keep the discuss close to topic.
Keep emotions to minimum and express your opinions logically with consideration of others and the validity of others' perspectives.
Piracy is a topic that easily generates heat, let us keep that heat to minimum and not damage our modules.
I will provide a format that will make matter easier:
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
Severe Noticeable Indifferent Optimal Necessary
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
... ... ...
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
... ... ..
Additional Commentary:
... ... ...
Ex. (my input)
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
[Severe] Noticeable Indifferent Optimal Necessary
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
Only 20 cargo can be present in a given instance, this makes piracy nearly impossible. Breaking an entire profession is a severe issue, equivalent to globally reducing commodities market supplies to 100 for each commodity, only providing 50k bounty for any bounty hunting target, or having exploration data price reduced to one-third of its original price. I sincerely hope this isn't FD's way of implying its abandonment on piracy as a part of the game's essential, marketed mechanic.
No trader will stand for having only 5 commodities to trade with only 100 supplies, and cannot carry shields or high grade thrusters/power distributor. No miner will stand having only 20 asteroids in a RES site that only provide 5 fragments each. No explorer will stand having exploration data capped at, say 20 pages. No bounty hunter will stand having 50k Cr targets flat across the board. I sincerely wish this isn't to single piracy out and killing it off.
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
Limit cargo limit to only stations and conflict zones.
Additional Commentary:
This issue was reflected ever since 1.3's beta by players, it was never properly responded to other than thread closing or blatant ignorance. A weak signal source can have more than 20 tons of cargo even in 1.3.
I hope Piracy as a profession receives the equality of treatment it deserves just as any other profession in game. Just because a profession is amoral, it does not mean it should lose its equivalency in value.
If you wish to reply to a post you disagree with, please keep in mind that the player you are disagreeing merely has a different perspective, solemnly consider the reasoning of your opposition and keep logical fallacies to minimum.
<snip>
Hello, fellow pilots.
I understand that this issue was brought up in a previous thread and I want to put that behind us. We are here to seriously discuss the effect of the the 1.3 Update on Piracy as a profession.
In the 1.3 update, FD decided to limit the possible cargo that a player may jettison/abandon to 20 tons each. This was to stop the "station bombing" tactics which generates severe lag. However, through this change, Piracy is severely damaged.
For that if a pirate is to ask for more than 20 tons of cargo, the release of cargo can only be done 20 tons at a time. Thus, the duration of piracy increases. This is lethal to a pirate for that police will arrive much sooner than a pirate can finish scooping dropped cargo even with Collector Drones.
Also, traders are hindered by this, as well. For that time is precious to traders, as well. The longer a pirate drags out the interaction, the more time a trader loses in gaining Credit/Ton/Hour.
There are several proposed solution to the issue:
1. Limit cargo limit to only stations and conflict zones.
2. Double commodity prices so that even 20 tons of cargo is worthy for piracy (but traders still get the same profit).
Ex.
Before change buy: 14k/ton sell: 16k/ton
After change buy: 29k/ton sell: 31k/ton
This thread is created to foster a productive discussion environment, please refrain from unfruitful conversations and keep the discuss close to topic.
Keep emotions to minimum and express your opinions logically with consideration of others and the validity of others' perspectives.
Piracy is a topic that easily generates heat, let us keep that heat to minimum and not damage our modules.
I will provide a format that will make matter easier:
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
Severe Noticeable Indifferent Optimal Necessary
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
... ... ...
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
... ... ..
Additional Commentary:
... ... ...
Ex. (my input)
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
[Severe] Noticeable Indifferent Optimal Necessary
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
Only 20 cargo can be present in a given instance, this makes piracy nearly impossible. Breaking an entire profession is a severe issue, equivalent to globally reducing commodities market supplies to 100 for each commodity, only providing 50k bounty for any bounty hunting target, or having exploration data price reduced to one-third of its original price. I sincerely hope this isn't FD's way of implying its abandonment on piracy as a part of the game's essential, marketed mechanic.
No trader will stand for having only 5 commodities to trade with only 100 supplies, and cannot carry shields or high grade thrusters/power distributor. No miner will stand having only 20 asteroids in a RES site that only provide 5 fragments each. No explorer will stand having exploration data capped at, say 20 pages. No bounty hunter will stand having 50k Cr targets flat across the board. I sincerely wish this isn't to single piracy out and killing it off.
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
Limit cargo limit to only stations and conflict zones.
Additional Commentary:
This issue was reflected ever since 1.3's beta by players, it was never properly responded to other than thread closing or blatant ignorance. A weak signal source can have more than 20 tons of cargo even in 1.3.
I hope Piracy as a profession receives the equality of treatment it deserves just as any other profession in game. Just because a profession is amoral, it does not mean it should lose its equivalency in value.
If you wish to reply to a post you disagree with, please keep in mind that the player you are disagreeing merely has a different perspective, solemnly consider the reasoning of your opposition and keep logical fallacies to minimum.
<snip>
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Wow, much flame, OK. So this 20 cargo limit is - in my opinion - clearly a quick and dirty fix that someone quickly put in the release to stop the station bombing exploit.
Wasn't designed to be like this, it's a quick solution to put out a fire. It clearly has to change. If FD does what it did before with these type of issues, they'll be listening to us and change it to something much more reasonable.
Would be nice to have a one liner from Michael though.
Wasn't designed to be like this, it's a quick solution to put out a fire. It clearly has to change. If FD does what it did before with these type of issues, they'll be listening to us and change it to something much more reasonable.
Would be nice to have a one liner from Michael though.
Didn't we have this problem before in the Beta, when ships would drop all their cargo and as soon as the counter reach 20 the next canister would cause canister 1 to disappear. So a Type 6 would drop a hundred tons and you could watch them appear and disappear on the contacts list.
The Limit was needed around stations as it was really frustrating being dropped back at the star when those who think it is funny dump dozens of canisters at stations cause lag and matchmaker disconnects
But in an instance with the Pirate and the prey after an interdiction surely no such limit need be imposed.
Or numerous other locations
Heck, it even slows down legitimate transfer of cargo between willing parties, even if you have drones buzzing about
I think making the rule apply only to stations (and CZ I have not run into that problem so beyond me to comment) makes more sense that changing prices
The Limit was needed around stations as it was really frustrating being dropped back at the star when those who think it is funny dump dozens of canisters at stations cause lag and matchmaker disconnects
But in an instance with the Pirate and the prey after an interdiction surely no such limit need be imposed.
Or numerous other locations
Heck, it even slows down legitimate transfer of cargo between willing parties, even if you have drones buzzing about
I think making the rule apply only to stations (and CZ I have not run into that problem so beyond me to comment) makes more sense that changing prices
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Would it not be possible to have the station itself target and destroy cargo dropped in its vicinity? And perhaps even direct local security ships to locate and destroy cargo dropped that is out of range of the station weapons?
But as is mentioned, a cheap fix for a problem that has created a much greater problem. I'm not a pirate, but I understand how this has effected the game so badly for those who do play as pirates.
But as is mentioned, a cheap fix for a problem that has created a much greater problem. I'm not a pirate, but I understand how this has effected the game so badly for those who do play as pirates.
Edit: reposted with proper format per OPs wishes.
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
Severe Noticeable Indifferent Optimal [Necessary]
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
If Frontier feels that 20 cargo containers in an instance is a suitable balance for performance issues and to prevent "station bombing" then it is necessary.
However this also greatly damages piracy, and other legitimate cargo transfers, hamstringing them to a slow and arduous pace. This has to be solved somehow.
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
have we considered the option of assigning more than one ton to a single cargo container model?
i.e. a trader drops 50 tons of cargo and it comes out as a single cargo container that says Gold(50t) or if they drop 20, Gold(20t) or what have you?
With this mechanic you could keep the 20 cargo container limit because, 20 cargo containers could be thousands of tons.
It satisfies the pirates needs to consume from trade routes, is a cleaner method for transferring larger batches of cargo in a timely manner for other purposes such as payment and it prevents a station bomber from dropping more than 20 canisters and clogging a station.
If a ship attempts to collect a container that has more tonnage than they have room for, it could simply collect the hold to full and leave the remainder floating behind in a single container with the leftover tonnage.
Additional Commentary:
It seems to me that the problem (station bombing) is not in the amount of cargo ejected (in tonnage) it is the amount of physically collide-able material floating around in an instance.
In order to combat this they have limited the amount to 20 tons to be dropped. More specifically to the actual problem, they have limited it to 20 pieces of floating debris to be dropped at one time.
This solution would both satisfy the needs for a clean piracy interaction, but also be much more flexible for ALL professions using cargo transfers in space.
Would this be a problem?
The effect of 1.3's cargo limit in instance:
Severe Noticeable Indifferent Optimal [Necessary]
Reasoning for the effect level choice:
If Frontier feels that 20 cargo containers in an instance is a suitable balance for performance issues and to prevent "station bombing" then it is necessary.
However this also greatly damages piracy, and other legitimate cargo transfers, hamstringing them to a slow and arduous pace. This has to be solved somehow.
Suggestion to fix the issue (if applicable):
have we considered the option of assigning more than one ton to a single cargo container model?
i.e. a trader drops 50 tons of cargo and it comes out as a single cargo container that says Gold(50t) or if they drop 20, Gold(20t) or what have you?
With this mechanic you could keep the 20 cargo container limit because, 20 cargo containers could be thousands of tons.
It satisfies the pirates needs to consume from trade routes, is a cleaner method for transferring larger batches of cargo in a timely manner for other purposes such as payment and it prevents a station bomber from dropping more than 20 canisters and clogging a station.
If a ship attempts to collect a container that has more tonnage than they have room for, it could simply collect the hold to full and leave the remainder floating behind in a single container with the leftover tonnage.
Additional Commentary:
It seems to me that the problem (station bombing) is not in the amount of cargo ejected (in tonnage) it is the amount of physically collide-able material floating around in an instance.
In order to combat this they have limited the amount to 20 tons to be dropped. More specifically to the actual problem, they have limited it to 20 pieces of floating debris to be dropped at one time.
This solution would both satisfy the needs for a clean piracy interaction, but also be much more flexible for ALL professions using cargo transfers in space.
Would this be a problem?
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You know what would solve this problem? Fix the stupid hatch breakers so they actually worked the way they're supposed to and allow any cargo forcibly extracted to persist. It would get rid of all this stand and deliver nonsense too.
You could disable them in the no fire zone around stations so griefers couldn't team up to get around the cargo limit.
You could disable them in the no fire zone around stations so griefers couldn't team up to get around the cargo limit.
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I agree that the cargo limitation was an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction to try and combat mass dumping at stations to disrupt community goals and to be honest I think it was rather arbitrary and unnecessary. Someone brought up the alternative of a percentage of cargo being able to be extracted forcibly by a cargo bay depressurization and I think that was a decent suggestion. Even most traders would agree that piracy needs to remain viable the question is what determines viability? One pirate may think that 20t is entirely feasible and in most situations I would agree that 20t is a respectable amount to ask for. The problems come into play only because most pirates group up in wings of 4 to present insurmountable odds for the loners that are out there trading. It is a fine line because what one pirate sees as reasonable another won't be satisfied with. There are those who say tough cookies traders should drop it all and lump it or die and consider that reasonable. In the end when it comes to a limit some people won't be happy period. The limit should be done away with but extremely severe penalties should be enacted for cases of murder in non anarchy systems. Traders might be more cooperative if they had two things:
1. Relative assurance that the likelihood of them being blown to space bits was extremely small (enforced by said very harsh penalties for murder).
2. The option to purchase cargo insurance when buying cargo to limit the loss of credits due to acts of piracy.
Traders can make decent money when traveling in a star cluster that is lightly traveled with systems that have good prices on imports and exports in close proximity, that is not exactly a secret. However it is also no big secret that trading by far is the riskiest venture money wise as they also currently stand to lose far more than any other profession when they find themselves in a bad situation.
With these changes in place there would be no need for angst between traders and those who actually role play pirates. As far as the station dumpers go, what should have been done is a warning and a temp ban followed by a perma-ban if caught doing it a second time. No more of the tiptoeing around the problem people, a firm stance with dire consequences should have been taken for that type imho.
1. Relative assurance that the likelihood of them being blown to space bits was extremely small (enforced by said very harsh penalties for murder).
2. The option to purchase cargo insurance when buying cargo to limit the loss of credits due to acts of piracy.
Traders can make decent money when traveling in a star cluster that is lightly traveled with systems that have good prices on imports and exports in close proximity, that is not exactly a secret. However it is also no big secret that trading by far is the riskiest venture money wise as they also currently stand to lose far more than any other profession when they find themselves in a bad situation.
With these changes in place there would be no need for angst between traders and those who actually role play pirates. As far as the station dumpers go, what should have been done is a warning and a temp ban followed by a perma-ban if caught doing it a second time. No more of the tiptoeing around the problem people, a firm stance with dire consequences should have been taken for that type imho.
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Here's a suggestion for a new feature - new application of the cargo scoop targeting reticle.
When your scoop is open and you're targeting another ship's cargo hatch, a 3D representation of the hatch appears in your display. Close to within 150M of the target and orient your ship directly beneath the hatch, and you'll get a "lock-on" indication.
So long as you maintain the lock, any cargo jettisoned from the target is channelled directly into your scoop.
When your scoop is open and you're targeting another ship's cargo hatch, a 3D representation of the hatch appears in your display. Close to within 150M of the target and orient your ship directly beneath the hatch, and you'll get a "lock-on" indication.
So long as you maintain the lock, any cargo jettisoned from the target is channelled directly into your scoop.
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Oh poor old Pirate scum, my heart bleeds for you.
I've always wondered why cargo was not dropped in larger units - i.e. up to the same size unit of the cargo rack itself. So if I've 10 tonnes of commodity in a size 8 and a size 2 rack, and I'm pirated, a size 8 and a size 2 container are dropped. Now drones are in small ships could use a drone to 'split' large containers into sizes compatible with their racks - e.g. to split that size 8 into two size 4s or smaller for collection.
There is no complete wipe of credits each week, read the powerplay manual for more info.
After 3 days of power play, it does look like most of our club is about to throw in the towel for this one.
A total grind, where you have to get tickets, even buy them like most of us have, costing millions, to get nothing in return. Bounties have been slashed, why I do not know, with Res sites now dry and small bounties that are not worth fighting for... It has put most of us in the mind of, get the top tier to get our credits back, then quit. Go do normal stuff that we like doing.
A complete lack of game play, is now what power play is all about! Sitting in docks waiting for a timer, or go shoot a ship to get one merit!!! ONE MERIT!!! Boy this sounds depressing already.
I have a new slogan for Elite, Play Elite, we give you a long piece of rope! YOU WILL NEED IT!!!
Total boredom has taken control of this game, Elite used to be great, but now power play has ruined it for most of our club commanders.
If any of you have not taken part in power play yet, here is a tip for you, do not bother!!!! You will lose credits, not make them... When other faction NPC's attack you get 400 credits for the kill, considering most of us put 30 million into the first part of the system, as you can clearly see it really is not worth it.
One of our founders is so bored of it, he has gone mining!!!!That is how bored he has become. The second stage I thought would be great, but the rewards for doing it, its just not worth doing at all!
This will be tough to get to the 50 million, that I am now owed. But once I do, that will be it. Then I will go off exploring, because this is not the game I signed up for in Beta... Not at all. Such a shame.
How about not doing things you don't like doing? What is it that people will go for the highest rank/biggest ship/whatever while complaining that doing so is not their idea of fun? Your signature claims you are a self-declared freedom fighter, yet all you complain about is not making money fast enough, or getting a good return on your financial investment. If you're interested in making the most money the fastest way possible, powerplay is not the right way. I like powerplay, and I couldn't care less about the merits. Got 30 or so of them, they could remove the entire rank/merit system and I wouldn't care. Preferably replace it with power-specific BB missions, but what do I know.
By the way: looking forward to your next post:" Exploration... What is the point?", where you'll point how little you get per scan, and that investing in a 20million asp is totally not worth it when you could have just been trading in a T7.
Don't like pirates/pirating etc etc because *you can probably all guess why*.
That being said, it is a legitimate profession within the game. It is one thing to make a pirate's life a pain and circumvent the issue using mode-play (Solo/Private), it's another thing to hard-cap the profession with the 20t mechanic. To me, this would be akin to FD stating you can be an Explorer, but we're going to limit you to 20ly jumps; yeah I can get the job done, but 20ly jumps? Come on man !!!!111?!?!1
There is a difference between (FD) making things more challenging for Pirates and simply making the profession impractical. Once you've been bounced by a Pirate you do some research and soon realise that the game has options for you escape or avoid them; the Pirate is also aware these options and will try to figure out a counter. This is all good (if that's your thing) but the 20t limit, that's just messy, arbitrary.
Sorry I don't have any solutions to offer, but just thought I'd offer some support for your thread as a fully paid-up member of the 'Burn 'em at the Stake' Club. As a listed profession, the game should give you as much access to explore it, as it does other professions.
That being said, it is a legitimate profession within the game. It is one thing to make a pirate's life a pain and circumvent the issue using mode-play (Solo/Private), it's another thing to hard-cap the profession with the 20t mechanic. To me, this would be akin to FD stating you can be an Explorer, but we're going to limit you to 20ly jumps; yeah I can get the job done, but 20ly jumps? Come on man !!!!111?!?!1
There is a difference between (FD) making things more challenging for Pirates and simply making the profession impractical. Once you've been bounced by a Pirate you do some research and soon realise that the game has options for you escape or avoid them; the Pirate is also aware these options and will try to figure out a counter. This is all good (if that's your thing) but the 20t limit, that's just messy, arbitrary.
Sorry I don't have any solutions to offer, but just thought I'd offer some support for your thread as a fully paid-up member of the 'Burn 'em at the Stake' Club. As a listed profession, the game should give you as much access to explore it, as it does other professions.
Ah, the "things were better in the old days" post. Go play the original for a while, I guarantee it was not better. And I do love the original.
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![[VR] Frank_G](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/59/59394.jpg?1553527111){kind=avatar}
I guess we will see docking and boarding action in future expansions, so the main transfer of cargo will happen ship to ship instead of dumping and collecting containers. I can understand, that it really is a pain for pirate players right now, but i am sure, we will see better times.