The Powerplay discussion thread.

[Cmdr Eran Mintor]

Nobody is going to stay around for that long just to get robbed. People have the option of legitimately logging out after 15s of waiting, and they will use it as soon as the pirate is busy scooping the first batch of cargo. Pirates will never see more than 20t of cargo.
And pirates aren't really interested in making things even less convenient for the trader by holding them up longer than necessary.

If someone really wants to combat log they will do it before the 15 second timer so I don't see that as much of an argument. The only risk you have with time is that they may call in friends, in which case you should be prepared or have more people scooping. There are work-arounds to this issue that has arose since their solution to a different issue. It will get fixed in time, it's good that people have brought it up, but this idea that piracy is crippled seems to be a bit biased. What about the pirates who don't play on open or pirate against NPE not PVP? Does this affect them the same?

Non-sense and borderline flame baiting. Pirates don't spam-drop cargo containers near stations to create lag fests. And yet pirates are the ones being impacted by this change the most. So Tell us exactly, how did I and everybody else in this thread, sow this, and why should we be the ones to reap it?

Not flame beating. What I'm saying is that there are individuals who have spammed the hell out of people with containers and it was an issue that needed addressing. Could it have been handled better? Sure. Was it everyone's fault in this thread? No. Was it a problem? Yes.

Hopefully the solution will be addressed better and all the constructive criticism and ideas can be offered from pirates and coders alike, I am neither, but for the time being there are ways to work around it without turning it into the end of peoples professions. I wasn't even aware pirating was all that lucrative anyways, how many tonnes do you usually ask for?

 

[Faybs]

This poll, like a great number of internet polls, has a problem called self-selection bias: the only people who are likely to vote are the ones who feel strongly about the issue (ie the loud minority). People who just play the game and stay out of forum drama aren't voting, and neither are those that just don't care about PP one way or another. All this poll confirms is that there is a group of people who don't like PP, another group that does and a third that doesn't care, and we already knew that. Anything beyond that, ie actual numbers, is suspect because of selection bias. This is of course assuming that no-one was cheating the poll, which would make it even less trustworthy.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

I don't know. I think we need to keep coming up with novel alternative solutions!


- Make every cargo canister request docking clearance, land at a docking pad, sell itself, and donate the money to charity.

- After 17 seconds, have all the jettisoned cargo canisters fly close to each other, and form a giant robot, which then forms a blazing sword, and a head, and attacks you.

- When you dump a cargo canister, have it follow you everywhere you go, smashing into your canopy glass, while shouting "SORRY!" loudly in a Mr Gumby voice. Wearing a knotted handkerchief hat.

- Turn all cargo canisters into cute puppies, to melt the hearts of cargo-spammers and make them sad about what they did.

LOL. Make them flash lights and start to move in disco dancing patterns before they pop and release jelly beans.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Powerplay - Faction muster locations.

If you wish to participate in your factions goals then sign up with your faction today.

Empire

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteLavigny - A Lavigny-Duval
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElitePatreus - Denton Patreus
https://www.reddit.com/r/AislingDuva l- Aisling Duval
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteTorval/ - Zemina Torval

Federation

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteWinters - Felicia Winters
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteHudson - Zachary Hudson


Alliance

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteMahon - Edmund Mahon


Independent

https://www.reddit.com/r/kumocrew - Archon Delaine
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteAnta l- Pranav Antal
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteSirius - Li Yong-Rui

 

[Hilight]

The problem with ED as a sandbox is that there isn't enough to do. Minecraft effectively created infinite possibilities using generic building blocks (literally and figuratively). ED has no such flexibility. Mechanics like trading, piracy, bounty hunting, are very shallow.

In Elite you can mine, boutny hunt, be a pirate, play galactic politics, be a philanthropist, (which I do quite a bit of these days), trade, explore, role play, bounty hunt, pvp, blockade, or smuggle in groups or alone. I probably missed a couple in the list too. ...and there are no game mechanics that force you to do any one of these in particular....sounds like a sandbox to me, and one that gives me a number of choices (I named 12).

 

[Yabba Addict]

If someone really wants to combat log they will do it before the 15 second timer so I don't see that as much of an argument.
There are work-arounds to this issue that has arose since their solution to a different issue. It will get fixed in time, it's good that people have brought it up, but this idea that piracy is crippled seems to be a bit biased.
I wasn't even aware pirating was all that lucrative anyways, how many tonnes do you usually ask for?

People playing within the rules have 15 seconds wait time to log out or risk being reported. Using the argument "If they're gonna do it, they'll do it illegally" is kinda a bad argument for why this isn't a legit reason for waiting around for the next 20 tonnes. I know of pirates that run shadowplay and happily report loggers. You say that pirates aren't crippled by this and then talk about the pirates crappy pay. So yes, it is kinda crippling. If I'm trading in my python I could fit to carry over 200 tonnes with hardly any defences. I actually fit for defence so have a bit less than 200. I've been asked for 50 tonnes of palladium before, and dropped it rather than lose all cargo plus insurance. So yeah, this does need fixing pretty badly.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

Quite. I have just got back from 57 days exploring, and I am enjoying PP. Power Play is just one more thing to do. Trade a bit, BH a bit and then PP a bit.

Yes. It works like that for me. TBH it is forcing me into a playstyle with far less earnings, and whilst that has been painful, I have adjusted. Much more varied.

Financial rewards still need balancing upwards imo, and there are some other fundamentally poorly thought out bits.

There is however real potential. Released far to early with too little beta feedback.

 

[NeilF]

In Elite you can mine, boutny hunt, be a pirate, play galactic politics, be a philanthropist, (which I do quite a bit of these days), trade, explore, role play, bounty hunt, pvp, blockade, or smuggle in groups or alone. I probably missed a couple in the list too. ...and there are no game mechanics that force you to do any one of these in particular....sounds like a sandbox to me, and one that gives me a number of choices (I named 12).

You're absolutely right... But let's get in your sandbox and try and play a bit shall we?

Miner - Are you suggesting the game mechanics/gameplay are as interesting/involved as you'd like them to be? Just shooting at rocks and picking bits up? Surely some added logic/intelligence/depth might go a long way? And where's the emergent gameplay David Braben himself talked about as regards ED? Exploring for, and finding rich pockets/locations of resources and either profiting from these directly or selling the information, and for this to be the first rung of the ladder of platforms and station and system occupation beginning?

Bounter Hunter - How many people in ED describe themselves as a "Bounty Hunter" and in the same breath continue on to explain they're in RES areas? Let's look at this occupation then shall we? Fly to an area with a big signpost on it, "Will all NPC Wanted please form an orderly queue and fly into this area to needlessly commit suicide so CMDRs can farm credits." Does this hit anyone as maybe lacking in depth, logic and ultimately interest to some degree?

Pirate - Again, this occupation needs to attention and love. Indeed, the game means traders don't even bother with shields/weapons at times as they can simply duck into SOLO to escape the more dangerous CMDRs, or simply combat log.

Trader - Find a pair of stations and fly to-and-fro between then, taking expensive items back and forwards, and igore the lower price items, such as food, which no one ever bothers with as the galaxy is happy to starve to death Would it be more interesting if Traders actually more at risk? Imagine if we could hire/employ NPC wingmen (even just one) so instantly traders could always have some sort of cover. Wouldn't that make trading a tad more interesting having a second NPC ship to outfit and cover you in dangerous space?

Play Galactic Politics - You're referring to Powerplay? I assume your use of the word "politics" refers to the Power which simply grinds the most at a set of mini-games (to collect points), wins? Where are any new gameplay elements or missions? Why are we still doing the same grind mechanics as six months ago, simply now wrapped up in a pseudo board game with bar graphs to reward players mass grinding?

...and I could go on...



You refer to blockading? Now why didn't Powerplay actually introduce new missions that actually introduced *shock horror* new things to do, including ones that ideally even promoted PvP interaction:-
- Power's give missions to protect convoys to a system. Or VIPs going to a system.
- Enemy Power's give counter missions to attack/destroy those convoys or kill those VIPs.

And *shock horror* the results are not simply measured on who grinds the most, but actually on a like for like basis and which Power performs them best. ie: Mindless grind does not simply win...


Anyway... I've said enough. We just need the depth of gameplay, exploration, occupations we all hoped for! What worries me is ED came to release with simplistic grinding at its core, and worse still Powerplay has made no attempt to improve upon this, but worse still embraced it and dug its heals in as if it has not the slightest interest in progressing from it.

 

[PiLhEaD]

After 3 days of power play, it does look like most of our club is about to throw in the towel for this one... because this is not the game I signed up for in Beta... Not at all. Such a shame.

Risk-in-space (aka PP) doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, and it sounds like it doesn't appeal to you, so have you considered not playing it, and just continuing as before?

I'm sure in all the pages on this thread, that this has been said before, but I think it bears repeating.

I'm not taking part in PP, didn't in beta, don't in live, and PP has had zero, nada, nil, no impact on me.

I'm amazed, frankly, how I read some people as thinking/suggesting that Elite D can/should be some permanent entertainment that never jades or fades.

It's a game. And it's a good game, that has already given me way more than the 'standard' 30-hours gameplay.

Mild grumbling over...

Anyone else excited for No Man's Sky? ...I can't wait... super-shiny...

 

[random_tangent]

In Elite you can mine, boutny hunt, be a pirate, play galactic politics, be a philanthropist, (which I do quite a bit of these days), trade, explore, role play, bounty hunt, pvp, blockade, or smuggle in groups or alone. I probably missed a couple in the list too. ...and there are no game mechanics that force you to do any one of these in particular....sounds like a sandbox to me, and one that gives me a number of choices (I named 12).

You're arguing against a point I'm not making, and you're trying to prove a subjective opinion as if it were a fact. You may not agree that Elite doesn't give us enough to do - there may be plenty for you. There isn't for me, and I'd have thought it was pretty obvious from the forum that I'm not the only one. This isn't just about rattling off a number of professions. It isn't just about checking boxes. It's about the fact that the actual game-play itself is shallow and simplistic. You could write a list of 200 choices, but ultimately in ED, each of them comes down to repeating a small number (sometimes 1) of tasks over and over again, with little variety, unpredictability or depth. Exploration is the most obvious offender, though the others aren't dramatically better. Are you seriously saying you think the mechanics of exploration are interesting and exciting? Do you seriously believe they are anywhere near complete?

 

[NeilF]

I'm not taking part in PP, didn't in beta, don't in live, and PP has had zero, nada, nil, no impact on me.

I was worried prior to its release - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140233

And having tried it, I feel those worries were founded - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=153492

After a week of trying it, I've personally found it uninspiring.


Although clearly it adds certain elements to the game some people may enjoy, for me it's worrying in three ways:-
- It in no way truly moves the core gameplay forwards. ED was sold being a deep dynamic interesting universe. PP really doesn't add any of these for an individual player.
- Worse still, it embraces the current thin gind mechanics/gameplay, and rather worryingly seems to suggest FD are happy for it to stay that way.
- All the development time spent on PP could have actually have gone into exciting new depth and content across the whole game (occupations, space content, exploration, missions etc etc). Instead FD thought PP was a better use of that time/effort.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...After a week of trying it, I've personally found it uninspiring...

I hear what you're saying Neil, and all I can say is to repeat that I found the base concept so unappealing that I didn't even bother trying it. So thanks for confirming my suspicions...

But was it wasted effort by FDev?

I suspect not, as I suspect (and I've absolutely zero evidence) that PP is at least in part a manifestation of their reworking of how missions are controlled. As such, PP is just one aspect of this stepping-stone, with more to come.

Well, that's what I choose to believe, or if you prefer, hope.

Overall, since v1.3 I have found that space now feels much more alive, in and of itself. I can't put my finger on 'why', but for me it does, and this is a good thing.

Is there room for improvement, of course, is ED 'fundamentally broken' (by v1.3, or at base) of course not. (appreciate that you weren't saying that...)

Happy daze

 

[Fyrd Judge]

After 3 days of power play, it does look like most of our club is about to throw in the towel for this one.

A total grind, where you have to get tickets, even buy them like most of us have, costing millions, to get nothing in return. Bounties have been slashed, why I do not know, with Res sites now dry and small bounties that are not worth fighting for... It has put most of us in the mind of, get the top tier to get our credits back, then quit. Go do normal stuff that we like doing.

A complete lack of game play, is now what power play is all about! Sitting in docks waiting for a timer, or go shoot a ship to get one merit!!! ONE MERIT!!! Boy this sounds depressing already.

I have a new slogan for Elite, Play Elite, we give you a long piece of rope! YOU WILL NEED IT!!!

Total boredom has taken control of this game, Elite used to be great, but now power play has ruined it for most of our club commanders.

If any of you have not taken part in power play yet, here is a tip for you, do not bother!!!! You will lose credits, not make them... When other faction NPC's attack you get 400 credits for the kill, considering most of us put 30 million into the first part of the system, as you can clearly see it really is not worth it.

One of our founders is so bored of it, he has gone mining!!!! That is how bored he has become. The second stage I thought would be great, but the rewards for doing it, its just not worth doing at all!

This will be tough to get to the 50 million, that I am now owed. But once I do, that will be it. Then I will go off exploring, because this is not the game I signed up for in Beta... Not at all. Such a shame.

I don't like Mcdonalds , but i don't knock on the door of my neighbour to inform them

 

[Kiblams]

I was worried prior to its release - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140233

And having tried it, I feel those worries were founded - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=153492

After a week of trying it, I've personally found it uninspiring.


Although clearly it adds certain elements to the game some people may enjoy, for me it's worrying in three ways:-
- It in no way truly moves the core gameplay forwards. ED was sold being a deep dynamic interesting universe. PP really doesn't add any of these for an individual player.
- Worse still, it embraces the current thin gind mechanics/gameplay, and rather worryingly seems to suggest FD are happy for it to stay that way.
- All the development time spent on PP could have actually have gone into exciting new depth and content across the whole game (occupations, space content, exploration, missions etc etc). Instead FD thought PP was a better use of that time/effort.

You have pretty much mirrored my own reservations and feelings about Powerplay both before and after, albeit in a much more coherent way than I could have managed.

 

[Tikanderoga]

I was just about to ask about How to PowerPlay.... but reading this really just made me ditch it and go back to what I like to do best: SMUGGLE!!!! Smuggle, trade, mine.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

I was just about to ask about How to PowerPlay.... but reading this really just made me ditch it and go back to what I like to do best: SMUGGLE!!!! Smuggle, trade, mine.

.....................LOL

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

It does boggle the mind how they thought this would be entertaining. I played a bit earlier. Got 25 merits then turned off elite as I was bored. I play off and on nowadays, and usually no longer than an hour at a time.

I believe this is what you get when you design games without actually playing them.

 

[KellyR]

What I don't understand is why people were cargo spamming in the 1st place. Just to lag people out? That's petty and childish. They're the ones who caused this restriction to be put in place. It did need fixing, but I think they were a bit hasty with the fix.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Ask pilot to drop 20 tonnes, pick up 20 tonnes, ask them to drop 20 more. Is this so hard? Nothing is really "broken". It was arguably a quick fix to a problem that could've been looked at further, but we wouldn't be in this situation if people didn't abuse it and lag the hell out of station undocks by spewing containers at them....

Just saying, you reap what you sew. I'm sure you will get a different solution to the problem in the near future but I feel there's a lot of crocodile tears here I can't have sympathy for.

We have mentioned this point before, that asking people to drop 20 by 20 is both realistic and time consuming for both parties, which if anything is detrimental.

Again, we are not here to discuss the cause of the change, because that finger pointing blaming game can be played by everyone. Plus, the profession of piracy isn't represented by players that participate and utilize station-bombing tactics. Do not utilize red herring and profession bash, there are other threads you can participate in for that purpose.

Let's stay on topic, we are discussing the issue and its potential solution, not the cause.

- - - Updated - - -

What I don't understand is why people were cargo spamming in the 1st place. Just to lag people out? That's petty and childish. They're the ones who caused this restriction to be put in place. It did need fixing, but I think they were a bit hasty with the fix.

Indeed it is childish, but it wasn't done as a method of piracy, thus piracy as a profession should not be punished for it.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

I believe this is what you get when you design games without actually playing them.

I expect the real issue here is, 80% of the negative heads have no clue how powerplay works, simply because they have not and can't be bothered to read the manual.