Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[ianw]

Why so you can use your super router powers



Yea, It is pretty easy to avoid being interdicted. I would hope there wouldn't be cheesy techniques. For example, farming for a favorable instance by dropping out of super cruise repeatedly.

I can see why you call it cheesy - "double dropping" is leveraging the game mechanics but on the other hand the game does allow you to drop out of supercruise. And to be honest if I was being repeatedly pursued by overwhelming numbers I would do it but only if I was determined to go to the original destination in a big hurry - otherwise I'd divert or wait.

ETA - so if we are gonna test this we need to agree on the drop out protocols - this is getting more and more complicated...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

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I was also assuming (possibly incorrectly) that Jordan would muster a reasonable crowd of blockers and the few of us here discussing running the blockade might be in the minority.

I'm mostly a lone player, I don't belong to any large group.

 

[Dave1235]

<snip>

Yea, It is pretty easy to avoid being interdicted. I would hope there wouldn't be cheesy techniques. For example, farming for a favorable instance by dropping out of super cruise repeatedly.

If I get involved its to try to do a fair test to try to see if we can learn something about instancing, if others want to test how to exploit it I will give this "test" a miss.

 

[Mouse]

I don't mind how it is done, as long as it makes enough sense for the outcome to be meaningful, I am also happy to test other variations of the test to see if they correlate, we just need to decide the parameters.

Agreed, I just view it from an analytical perspective, and have been in too many exercises where conditions are changed to be favorable to a certain outcome ^,^

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

.ETA - so if we are gonna test this we need to agree on the drop out protocols - this is getting more and more complicated...

Yea you can say that again.

 

[Asp Explorer]

For example, farming for a favorable instance by dropping out of super cruise repeatedly.

Maybe I could use my super VPN powers to create a network for these people that the matchmaking server would always see as favourable and so put them together as often as it could.

I can't realistically see anyone going for that though - far, far too much could go horribly wrong, and there is of course a certain level of trust which I don't think we'll see here

 

[Dave1235]

I'm mostly a lone player, I don't belong to any large group.

I never meant to imply that you did, I just hoped you could rustle up a small crowd.

Maybe when the basics are settled we need to start a thread to advertise it a little, there are a few of us here that are in, but we need more to make it meaningful.

The more we can get involved the more reliable the result. I think we should try 50/50, then 25/75 & 75/25 and see how it works out but I am happy to go with the flow.

 

[Dave1235]

Agreed, I just view it from an analytical perspective, and have been in too many exercises where conditions are changed to be favorable to a certain outcome ^,^

I hope that does not happen, if I do this test and the wing I am in decides to try to influence it in some way I will leave the group & post what happened, I think its worth doing properly if its worth doing at all, I don't mind spending a few hours each weekend for a month to learn something, if I find out it was wasted by some people trying to twist the result I would be really annoyed!

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Exactly. We know blockades won't work (irrespective of modes) for CGs or for PP because thousands of players are involved across several days to a week and across different time zones and countries. All they are proving is that you can outrun a blockade if caught. Getting caught has many variables against it in the first place. But hey, they're having fun, bless 'em.

I dunno, NPC Interdictions can sure as hell get annoying enough to mimic the blockades made by players.

 

[Jockey79]

Roybe has all ready covered this, regarding the Lugh experiment where they tried to do a blockade.
It didn't work.They found that even with tweaking, the matchmaker only ever put up to twelve in one instance and even that was a nightmare to force.

Plus, the instances are referred to as an "island" for a reason. If you try this in Open Mode, then all the random folks knocking about will mess with your results due to the "island instancing". Everyone seems to refer to the matchmaking system as if it creates static instances (well, for stations it does, but not for players who are moving about), but they are not. They are dynamic depending who is near by.

If you have a spotty connection at best to someone, then a random from no where has a good connection to you, but none to the other - that other will drop from your island to favour the random with the stable connection to you (Seen it do this with my friend in Wales).

To stop random people messing it up just by passing through, you'd have to use a private group setting - and does that not defeat the whole point of the test?

 

[DarkWalker]

I dunno, NPC Interdictions can sure as hell get annoying enough to mimic the blockades made by players.

If the best way to describe a piece of content is "annoying", IMHO it's a strong indication that the devs are doing something very wrong...

NPC interdictions can (and likely should) be made challenging, engaging. But if they get to the point of being annoying, then they would need to be either fixed or removed for the good of the game.

Similarly with player interdictions, actually. The system needs to be tuned so the overall experience is engaging, ultimately positive, for everyone involved. If that is not the case, if player interdictions are annoying rather than engaging, then they are clearly broken and need to be fixed.

 

[fademist]

If the best way to describe a piece of content is "annoying", IMHO it's a strong indication that the devs are doing something very wrong...

NPC interdictions can (and likely should) be made challenging, engaging. But if they get to the point of being annoying, then they would need to be either fixed or removed for the good of the game.

Similarly with player interdictions, actually. The system needs to be tuned so the overall experience is engaging, ultimately positive, for everyone involved. If that is not the case, if player interdictions are annoying rather than engaging, then they are clearly broken and need to be fixed.

i remember a post from npc's master that she clearly said we dont want to meet her minions on full potential

 

[DarkWalker]

i remember a post from npc's master that she clearly said we dont want to meet her minions on full potential

Tangentially off-topic, but in any game where reflexes and precision are important it's actually easy to make an AI that can never be beaten by a human. Think aimbots. Making hard opponents is very easy; what is hard to do is making opponents that are fun to fight against.

 

[fademist]

Tangentially off-topic, but in any game where reflexes and precision are important it's actually easy to make an AI that can never be beaten by a human. Think aimbots. Making hard opponents is very easy; what is hard to do is making opponents that are fun to fight against.

yeah but still isnt all good though;p is hard to find the proper line for all

 

[Robert Maynard]

I dunno, NPC Interdictions can sure as hell get annoying enough to mimic the blockades made by players.

Indeed - I had an NPC tag onto my high-wake (interdicted well after hyper-drive initiated) and follow me to the next system - interdiction occurred immediately on drop to SC and far too close to the star. Combat ensued, NPC dispatched, lots of heat damage taken....

 

[Jockey79]

Tangentially off-topic, but in any game where reflexes and precision are important it's actually easy to make an AI that can never be beaten by a human. Think aimbots. Making hard opponents is very easy; what is hard to do is making opponents that are fun to fight against.

Alas, that is the problem.

It boils back to, casual Vs hardcore players.

Casual players do not have the reflexes of people who play 30+ hours a week and will leave if the AI constantly win.

 

[Roland2]

I'll go with whatever gets decided..

This thread series has been going on for two and a half years with no decisions made, you way have a long wait

Roybe has all ready covered this, regarding the Lugh experiment where they tried to do a blockade.
It didn't work.They found that even with tweaking, the matchmaker only ever put up to twelve in one instance and even that was a nightmare to force.

Plus, the instances are referred to as an "island" for a reason. If you try this in Open Mode, then all the random folks knocking about will mess with your results due to the "island instancing". Everyone seems to refer to the matchmaking system as if it creates static instances (well, for stations it does, but not for players who are moving about), but they are not. They are dynamic depending who is near by.

If you have a spotty connection at best to someone, then a random from no where has a good connection to you, but none to the other - that other will drop from your island to favour the random with the stable connection to you (Seen it do this with my friend in Wales).

To stop random people messing it up just by passing through, you'd have to use a private group setting - and does that not defeat the whole point of the test?

I was thinking that making a group would be the way to go. That way there would be no question who was participating in the test, and give maximum likely hood of being matched together. Of course, that would probably invalidate the test, since it wouldn't match real game play.

 

[Cody]

Solstitial salutations - nice and quiet in here today!

 

[FuzzySpider]

This thread series has been going on for two and a half years with no decisions made, you way have a long wait

He's speaking of the blockade challenge, which looks waaaay more entertaining than this thread.

Have we decided on how to do this yet? And who is signed up for it so far?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

He's speaking of the blockade challenge, which looks waaaay more entertaining than this thread.

Have we decided on how to do this yet? And who is signed up for it so far?

So far the only people who said yes are
Ianw
Asp
Dave
Me
You


I think the best way of doing it would be, 1 hour of the runners trying to get a station, if they dock at the station they get a point. Once docked, they relaunch and fly to a new system to try again.

If they get interdicted before the station, the runners, submit, then jump out of the system, they wait a couple mins then try again. The blockaders get a point for every interdiction.

The one with the most points at the end wins.