No kidding but the current mechanics of limpets, hatches and engines disabled makes it impossible to remain profitable as a pirate. So I'm forced to chase until they stop or kill them outright, which I do if I need to. If we want to see less chasing and less killing, as most pirates will agree, my changes are reasonable.
Murder in Space - How it can be punished.
- Thread starter Snarfbuckle
- Start date
No kidding but the current mechanics of limpets, hatches and engines disabled makes it impossible to remain profitable as a pirate. So I'm forced to chase until they stop or kill them outright, which I do if I need to. If we want to see less chasing and less killing, as most pirates will agree, my changes are reasonable.
No, solo is for those players that don't desire human on human interaction. Open was created for player versus player experiences. I in no way need to go solo. I'm playing in open how it was intended to be played.
I'm quite reasonable in my demands and I only end up killing twenty one percent of players I pirate. That number is quite high. But it is due to their own greed. That's not my problem. It probably is a problem for Frontier by making trading too profitable or the penalty for dying too low--or too easy to get away. Hell, there are a lot of problems and reasons why that number is so high. But my rule is...
1. Scan for cargo.
2. If cargo is worthwhile, ask for a portion of it, say, 20 - 50% (depends on the ship, usually isn't more than 25 - 30%)
3. If mark runs, shoot mark.
4. Ask mark to stop. Let mark run for a while. Shoot and demand.
5. After warning them over and over... blow them up.
6. If mark doesn't run and mark gives cargo, let mark go and wish them happily on their way (and tell them how to fix ship if drives shot out).
7. If mark has no cargo, let mark go and wish them a happy night (or give them some nice pirate talk about the junk in their hold).
I pirate for fun, firstly. Profits come second. I'm not rich in credits, but I'm rich in fun and play in character 100% of the time.
Bounties don't really deter me. If anything they make it more fun, tiptoeing around the bounty hunters playing cat and mouse. I giggle lots of the time they're around. Sometimes I'll even start talking to them.
Yes, we agree here.
Thank you. That's my entire point. Making murder penalties oppressive also serve to make the game less fun. In no way do I want profit limited to 100 cr/hour. But penalties need to exist to deter traders from running so they pay up, since from my own personal observations many are greedy as hell. My spreadsheet doesn't lie. I've been pirating for four months straight as a sole source of income (well, until the 20 ton nerf).
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My favorite kind of trader! Abandoned cARRRRRRRRRRgo is the best.
I have fun playing a pirate in 17th century embellished character (thank you mister Stevenson). I've forgone big toys for richness in fun.
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You have replied to this thread like 10 times, and on each occasion you have shown your inability to read the OP.
No one is talking about taking your PvP away.
Stay on topic and stop trying inflame people.
There are some amazing options being offered in this thread. +rep for the great ideas guy and gals.
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Actually, yes. You know the consequences for killing bot traders, why should they be different for human traders? Do the consequences for everyone or don't do them at all.
Or, if CMDRs are now considered sacred, any bot that attacks me should get HUGE bounty. I'd actually like that a lot.
From my point of view I'm acting honorably, so my actions are justified.
Really can you imagine a process in a court of law trying to determine if someone's actions were honorable? It totally depends on person's viewpoint!For example an honorable samurai could employ the services of a ninja that would murder his rival in his sleep, and they would both stay totally honorable afterwards.
This is because pirating is done improperly.
Firstly, pirate (or anyone else) should be able to commandeer or hijack the disabled vessel.
Secondly, now that we have rivaling factions, pirate should be able to procure caper license and act "legally" in the rivaling faction space. And while he's at it get merits too!
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I'm concerned about the concept of fining amounts over what a pilot in a small "pirate" vessel can pay for shooting a player.
I agree that more needs to be done to make it more -I'll say "engaging" to be a pirate, and possibly make use of anarchy systems. (Where you should be interdicted by wings of pirates if you fly through them).
Firstly I've played since release and struggle to see more than 2 or 3 cmdrs a session - that has become more common now thanks to doing power play.
I would suggest that the fine/bounty isn't the issue - it is more that the pilot has no real consequence for their fun. (And I don't want to spoil anyone's fun)
How about if you kill a cmdr who has "report crimes on - as suggested before - you cannot get docking permission in that system until your bounty is payable (I believe bounties can be paid off anywhere) for every week that you don't pay the ban on docking spreads out a certain number of light years EXCEPT for anarchy systems.
Therefore the pirates who really don't care about the bounties would start congregating in the anarchy systems as hubs then raid the more prosperous areas for the cash.
Just an idea.
I agree that more needs to be done to make it more -I'll say "engaging" to be a pirate, and possibly make use of anarchy systems. (Where you should be interdicted by wings of pirates if you fly through them).
Firstly I've played since release and struggle to see more than 2 or 3 cmdrs a session - that has become more common now thanks to doing power play.
I would suggest that the fine/bounty isn't the issue - it is more that the pilot has no real consequence for their fun. (And I don't want to spoil anyone's fun)
How about if you kill a cmdr who has "report crimes on - as suggested before - you cannot get docking permission in that system until your bounty is payable (I believe bounties can be paid off anywhere) for every week that you don't pay the ban on docking spreads out a certain number of light years EXCEPT for anarchy systems.
Therefore the pirates who really don't care about the bounties would start congregating in the anarchy systems as hubs then raid the more prosperous areas for the cash.
Just an idea.
Not until we can board and seize control of a station. I can't wait 'til we can do that.
We probably won't be able to... but if we ever can... ohhhh... yes.- - - Updated - - -
This is because pirating is done improperly.
Firstly, pirate (or anyone else) should be able to commandeer or hijack the disabled vessel.
Secondly, now that we have rivaling factions, pirate should be able to procure caper license and act "legally" in the rivaling faction space. And while he's at it get merits too!
I would love to hold pilots for ransom. It'd put a twist on the extortion we can already do.
Not until we can board and seize control of a station. I can't wait 'til we can do that.
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I would love to hold pilots for ransom. It'd put a twist on the extortion we can already do.
Well, it worked well in Eve and could lead to some real fun situation (like forcing a random dude to sing christmas carols to be allowed to go).
The problem for pirates right now is that the game is lethal - there are too few tools for non-killing piracy and there is also the problem of people being stupid and trying to get away AFTER they have been interdicted and they really KNOW they have a snowballs chance in hell.
Sure, if the loss of goods is more than their insurance then they might not have anything too loose.
Still, non-lethal options are needed.
-Framshift Stunner Limpets (to keep people in place)
-Cytoscrambler Beam
-Cargo Hatch Limpets
At the same time the CRIME of piracy should be reported - The act of interdiction when you are not part of a system defense force should really count as piracy since you are basically ramming someone off the road.
You are aware that bulletin boards routinly offer missions to destroy traders. It's already in game. And if killing bot traders is ok why killing CMDR traders is not?
Actually one doesn't even have to take a mission to do this, just share the views of the mission giving faction. This is called roleplaying.
Actually, No!Actually, yes. You know the consequences for killing bot traders, why should they be different for human traders? Do the consequences for everyone or don't do them at all.
Or, if CMDRs are now considered sacred, any bot that attacks me should get HUGE bounty. I'd actually like that a lot.
From my point of view I'm acting honorably, so my actions are justified.
For example an honorable samurai could employ the services of a ninja that would murder his rival in his sleep, and they would both stay totally honorable afterwards.
This is because pirating is done improperly.
Firstly, pirate (or anyone else) should be able to commandeer or hijack the disabled vessel.
Secondly, now that we have rivaling factions, pirate should be able to procure caper license and act "legally" in the rivaling faction space. And while he's at it get merits too!
How does your statement That BB missions include some for destroying traders give ANY information on the CONSEQUENCES or CHALLENGES of doing so.
Yes, the consequences for destroying NPC and Player alike SHOULD be the same. Inside the game world, the offense is the same, so the punishment should be the same. I just think it should be greater than it is now - for destruction of ANY ship. And I still don't see the challenge of taking on an unarmed trader T7 in ANY pirate equipped ship.
OK, once we get the ability to walk around our vessels, then I can see the possibilty of a pirate being able to burn through an airlock and try and take command of my vessel. But he'd better not think he's just going to waltz in without a care in the world. If pirates get the game mechanics to hijack a vessel, traders must get the opportunity to defend themselves.
However.
What are you smoking! Why should a pirate from faction 'A' be able to go into faction 'B' territory and be able to do anything "legally"? (With or without any sort of licence)
If you are a pirate in Faction 'A' territory, then presumably faction 'B' will like you more anyway - if you are pirating in faction 'A' territory. You are disrupting faction 'A' lines of supply, thereby working for every faction BUT 'A'. It's just the same as those players who pledge for faction 'A' and take on a mission to destroy ships in faction 'B' territory. Yes, they should gain rep with faction 'A', but faction 'B' wo't like them as much and they should get a bounty there.
This is what I was saying from the very beginning. Anything bots do should be considered "allowed behavior", and should be ok for CMDR to replicate without him being labeled as "griefer" and other sorts of names.
And yes, the consequences should be the same for bots and CMDRs.
I didn't mean boarding the vessels in FPS mode, more like making the trader pilot at gunpoint fly to the pirate base, or pirate shooting out engines and then using tug to bring the vessel to desired outpost/base. This is how it's done in real life too. If you've got yourself a torpedo boat it's better to steal entire container ship than try to unload several containers off it on your lethal yet small boat.
Actions should be "legal" from the viewpoint of the faction that gave you the caper license, just like the one Drake had.
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Basically this. I am bored out of my mind on E: D. I fly around resisting a lot of temptation, and mostly hunt for other hunters, but I am seriously considering just being a murderer, racking up a bounty and getting more excitement as other people spend hours hunting me, rather than the other way around.
I really would love some sort of sanctioned PVP. Surely in space, where combat is as popular as it is with all ships being outfitted for it... there would be some sort of PvP where death might cost something, but not as much as a rebuy for a big ship, and maybe the reward for killing would be a bit higher, or not.
Somewhere where you could wager people maybe in a battle...something. I see people are starting to organize events like this on their own, but ED really ought to have something built for it IMO. Crashing one of those Eagle PvP matches might be just way too much of an urge for some...
But what we are talking about is what should be changed on what is considered "allowed" behavior. Bots become wanted when they shoot you if they are not wanted and they hit you by accident. So do you.
We need to establish what should be reasonable seen as a crime.
-Unlawful interdiction - Should be a crime (Piracy) since you are essentially "attacking" someone and forcing them "off the road" unless you ARE law enforcement
-Interdicting a mission target while a piracy act would act as a letter of marque to the faction you do the job for - but you still get fined for the general crime
-Shooting a non-criminal target that is not an enemy would be assault/piracy
-Killing a non-criminal target that is not an enemy would be murder.
-Scooping targets in view of a victim should be an act of piracy.
The above are simply logical laws and something I would expect when playing a pirate since Im after all a criminal.
The above laws would of course not apply in an Anarchy system unless the local crime lord of said system WANTS those laws in effect.
In controlled FED/ALL/IMP/IND systems these should all be laws strictly enforced - at least to a point depending on how secure the system designed to be.
No. 'Bots' should not be allowed to do stuff that would be considered "Non-allowed behaviour" by players. I.E. bots should not drag you out of supercruise, comm for ALL your cargo, then open fire before you have a chance to do anything. It is quite possibly that players have had this happen to them, and that is why they consider it a viable and acceptable method of piracy. [It's not.] Taking what many consider a bug and saying NPCs do it, I can do it is not a defence. However, the point is, we both agree that ANY action, by player or NPC should have the same risks and consequences. Personally, I have not labelled anyone in the game a griefer, although I do understand it does happen a lot more often than it should do. Anyone actually roleplaying deserves some credit, and I don't believe that anyone is actually griefed unless they are repeatedly targetted by the same player or are the victim of an exploit or hack.
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Ok, yes I understand what you are aiming for. I just don't think it will ever be feasible. That sort of mechanic will just end up with the same, greedy actions from traders. They will either self-destruct to prevent you from gaining anything above the bare minimum (currently a max of 20T of cargo left intact in an instance), or they will let you drag them wherever, then self destruct hoping to cause damage to your ships/facilities, or they will log off and return in solo so they save their ship and cargo. Such a protracted affair is possible in real life because the target generally doesn't have the facility to blow themselves up out of spite, or just vanish without trace.
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Whilst I am generally in favour of allowing pirates a method of making their way in the game the way they want, this seems like a bad step for the pirate community at large, and will only make traders think there is more risk than there actually is, and more likely to make it harder for the pirates in the long run.
Agree with you except on this. Making the victim drop cargo in the first place is the act of piracy. What the pirate does with it after that is immaterial. Once I have dropped cargo, I don't care if the pirate scoops it, shoots it, or leaves it floating in space. That's their decision. [but if I drop it, and the pirate leaves it floating in space, then leaves, I AM recovering it!
] And if a pirate thinks that once I have agreed to drop a certain amount of cargo, then shooting it is a way to make me drop more, then they'd better think again. To allow piracy to exist without just making confrontations into a battle to the death the victim of piracy can't be allowed to just bail 5 seconds after interdiction or require the pirate to completely disable the victim's shields to force their hand and either give over cargo or risk damage / death.
Without solving those issues, piracy will remain nothing more than "psycho" attacks because a moment's hesitation means you come out empty anyway. Even without hesitating pirates will come out empty usually and not even get a kill unless the victim is new / bad at the game. Which just encourages attacks on new / weak players and they tend to not be able to carry hardly any cargo.
But making a "trader"'s life actually risky is going to get a bunch of backlash from noisy forum members because god forbid you suggest something that takes away their free lunch and easy money.
Without solving those issues, piracy will remain nothing more than "psycho" attacks because a moment's hesitation means you come out empty anyway. Even without hesitating pirates will come out empty usually and not even get a kill unless the victim is new / bad at the game. Which just encourages attacks on new / weak players and they tend to not be able to carry hardly any cargo.
But making a "trader"'s life actually risky is going to get a bunch of backlash from noisy forum members because god forbid you suggest something that takes away their free lunch and easy money.