The Powerplay discussion thread.
- Thread starter Matt
- Start date
The Op is quite wrong. The reason why PowerPlay will ultimately fail can be found here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=163821
The rewards are divorced from the faction's success and can be bought. Until that is fixed arguments about how factions are organised are at best moot.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=163821
The rewards are divorced from the faction's success and can be bought. Until that is fixed arguments about how factions are organised are at best moot.
The fair lass is speaking the godspell truth she is
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Please, please don't join ALD! If he joins the ALD, I believe poor Roen will have a new thread on the same topic in a week...
Maybe the magically 5th column, as they don't have a sub-reddit that I know of.
Damn, you denominator, damn you! <shaking fist>
Next time I find you, Mr. Denominator in your wing of Mr. Fraction and Mrs. Numerator, I'm so taking you down!
Ah another Comedian, Welcome
Here is what I would propose, not so much as reward but less of a punishment, right now PP uses a carrot and stick system, the stick is very rash and the carrot pretty lame, that must change.
1.Remove the merit decay.
2.Make the ranks harder to reach (sort of like the Pilots federation ranks)
3.Remove or significantly lower the weekly salary
4.Make the merits more like community goal events, a commodity that is bought at a price and sold at another with about 1000 or 1500 profit per unit.
5.Give an appropriate cash reward for the contribution to an specific goal, lets say that a system is successfully fortified, and you are in the top 40% contributors, you get x cash at the end (similar to a community goal) and maybe the reward being greater the further away it is from the capital.
6.Each sucessful week or rank up, give players of each power a "thank you" letter from the officers and leaders of their respective power.
7.Powerplay is mostly made for advanced players, please don't reward with class 1 modules. Even if they are side grades, make them make more sense in the meta, right now there are only 3 or 4 decent ones.
What are the goals of my proposal:
1 reinforce loyalty and roleplay.
2 more freedom, make the player not feel like they are chained, losing 100Million if they don't play this week.
3 make it profitable and a viable route to make a living without being imbalanced with the other professions.
Right now a lot of players are alienated with the current system, and the ones that are left playing will keep suffering until they eventually give up. It wasn't too obvious when the system wasn't fully understood, but now it is becoming more apparent.
As a bonus, i would increase the cash rewards of everything by 25% if in open play, just to promote more online interaction.
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From what I understand if you are outside of your powers jurisdiction you are fair game for the systems controlling power but yet you still are under their system laws, therefore being interdicted and trying to return fire will make you a criminal as they are clean.
However if you are inside your own powers jurisdiction and you spot another powers player or AI you are allowed to open fire.
However if you are inside your own powers jurisdiction and you spot another powers player or AI you are allowed to open fire.
There is more in this? - Okay..
Wow. Just wow. You are so desperate.
If a given power takes the formula, uses it with its number of exploited systems and finds a result that is close to its actual overheads and if another power does the same thing and comes to the same conclusion then it means that the formula is accurate enough.
Period.
You so much want to have distance come into play but it actually affects upkeeps already. Maybe it also affects the denominator in that formula but it's so minor that we can use /74000 for any power and get a result that works.
You refuse to acknowledge that the formula works because you are in denial, you don't want to acknowledge that you can't expand as much as you want which was your little dream. But the reality is different.
Now I am done explaining things to a wall. Take care.
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The formula is accurate enough to your mind so you can oppress others with it. - The formula is not accurate in any given power.
You reject reality and substitute it with your own. - It is your lack of understanding how the game runs, which enforces you to kick other players to stop.
Yes I can adjust potentiometer to show 0% to 100% and all values between. -
Please the data. No more empty propaganda ok?
So, your saying all the hazzle of overheads is in upkeeps, so people can actually see them and all this propaganda to stop progress have been just empty.
I can see the upkeep costs and many systems provide even more than 100CC/W. How is that a bad thing.
Is there a formula for that? - Provide me data.
You reject reality and substitute it with your own. - It is your lack of understanding how the game runs, which enforces you to kick other players to stop.
Yes I can adjust potentiometer to show 0% to 100% and all values between. -
Please the data. No more empty propaganda ok?
So, your saying all the hazzle of overheads is in upkeeps, so people can actually see them and all this propaganda to stop progress have been just empty.
I can see the upkeep costs and many systems provide even more than 100CC/W. How is that a bad thing.
Is there a formula for that? - Provide me data.
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I only disagree with #5, as that turns it back into a ladder. And ladders are the worst construct possible:
- can't predict what reward level you could reach, preventing a rational decision if that's worth the effort to you.
- you grind against the jobless with no life, no family and nothing else to stop them from playing 24/7
The formula isnt perfect but it gives very good results, it may require a few extra parameters to explain the few times there is a greater gap between real and estimated values but whatever this is, it doesnt change the result much.
Blue : real value
Orange : estimated. (n^3 /74000)
Cycle 3
cycle 4 :
cycle 5 :
Power, number of exploited systems, real overhead value, approximation(n^3/74000)
Max error : 17% (For some reason, always more than 10% with Patreus, always less than 10% with others)
average error : 2.27%
You can even use the formula on the graph, it should work too.
see this thread too : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=159305
Blue : real value
Orange : estimated. (n^3 /74000)
Cycle 3
Code:
Power exploited overhead approx
winters 377 711 724,09
hudson 543 2160 2163,55
lavigny 372 694 695,66
torval 301 368 368,53
mahon 177 74 74,94
patreus 210 107 125,15
aisling 196 101 101,75
li 155 50 50,32
delaine 143 39 39,52
antal 93 10 10,87cycle 4 :
Code:
winters 425 1021 1037,37
hudson 557 2332 2335,25
lavigny 526 1964 1966,64
torval 383 758 759,21
mahon 259 234 234,78
patreus 272 242 271,94
aisling 289 325 326,18
li 228 157 160,17
delaine 204 114 114,73
antal 121 23 23,94cycle 5 :
Code:
winters 500 1667 1689,19
hudson 585 2702 2705,43
lavigny 672 4096 4100,87
torval 474 1437 1439,14
mahon 369 678 678,96
patreus 327 429 472,51
aisling 382 752 753,28
li 325 459 463,89
delaine 249 208 208,62
antal 135 33 33,25Max error : 17% (For some reason, always more than 10% with Patreus, always less than 10% with others)
average error : 2.27%
You can even use the formula on the graph, it should work too.
see this thread too : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=159305
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Oh dear Roen seems that they are correct.
Oh man Roen Soul is so going to unload on you. your from the subversion and dreaded Moderator and Admin coalition you don't stand a chance with his logic
It's all a matter of balance
It gives the no lifes a goal and you are still getting paid regardless of your contribution level.
Anyway 5 is not required, but in general, they are just ideas to expand in a system like community goals that are not mandatory, but benefits everyone who want to take part on just for taking part in it.
Because you keep failing to understand that there is another factor than profit, a very important factor: the number of systems within the 15 Ly bubble. The more systems you exploit, the more they cost you through overheads.
Distance between the system and the HQ affects the upkeep. The number of exploited systems affects your overheads and big time. The difference is that while you can clearly see the upkeep, you actually have to count the number of systems within the bubble one by one. That's why things seem so obscure to you, there is no clear indication of the amount of systems within a 15Ly range (something that I would like them to add if you could please show your support in this thread).
Take System A:
Income: 170 CC
Upkeep: 30 CC
Profit: 140 CC
Number of systems: 20
Now System B:
Income: 110 CC
Upkeep: 20 CC
Profit: 90 CC
Number of systems: 5
Guess what? Despite a lower income and lower profit, B is more interesting than A. A has a profit of 7 CC/system (140/20) while B has a profit of 18 CC/system (90/5) and most importantly it only adds 5 systems instead of 20 in the calculation of your overheads.
That's what you keep missing. You cannot simply open the map, look at a green dot with a high profit and say this is a great system! You simply can't because you have to take the number of systems exploited around into consideration. Something that you never do.
Are you an engineer for real that you can't understand some basic mathematics?
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Ok I have to read above and ok.
Every expansion which has been carefully selected so that it will provide income to the power will close a cap until it stops the income.
Distance to the system which is going to be prepared has less effect than enemy action like undermining the system. - Therefore it is far more important to get your systems where the enemy is not bashing them all out. - Even that number of systems are limited.. That does not mean the game is over and the power can not be improved by letting go of systems. - But I do not see it a good idea to believe all the systems in one place is best for the power.
Generally FW area is in middle of every single power and bashing her from all directions, while there is a bit more space behind her to dodge it all.
Change the systems a bit and we are ok. But telling everyone to stop everything, your killing the game...
So if we believe in your calculation, the distance hasn't got much of a role. It is more about how well you have chosen your systems instead.
And thank you Nico.. If that is affirmed data then we must see it as it is right? - There is no slot set to distance and again this is an estimator which needs some tweaks to get it correct.
The logic in that potentiometer is a good analog as we can see. - But yes indeed, the whole idea saying to people do not expand does not affect that formula. That formula itself is a proof you must carefully select what systems you take, and instantly get rid of systems which are getting bashed by opponents. -
So what is wrong with Simyr or Lumbla?
Every expansion which has been carefully selected so that it will provide income to the power will close a cap until it stops the income.
Distance to the system which is going to be prepared has less effect than enemy action like undermining the system. - Therefore it is far more important to get your systems where the enemy is not bashing them all out. - Even that number of systems are limited.. That does not mean the game is over and the power can not be improved by letting go of systems. - But I do not see it a good idea to believe all the systems in one place is best for the power.
Generally FW area is in middle of every single power and bashing her from all directions, while there is a bit more space behind her to dodge it all.
Change the systems a bit and we are ok. But telling everyone to stop everything, your killing the game...
So if we believe in your calculation, the distance hasn't got much of a role. It is more about how well you have chosen your systems instead.
And thank you Nico.. If that is affirmed data then we must see it as it is right? - There is no slot set to distance and again this is an estimator which needs some tweaks to get it correct.
The logic in that potentiometer is a good analog as we can see. - But yes indeed, the whole idea saying to people do not expand does not affect that formula. That formula itself is a proof you must carefully select what systems you take, and instantly get rid of systems which are getting bashed by opponents. -
So what is wrong with Simyr or Lumbla?
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So uh apparently from what I hear there is nobody in Cosi, very boring.
If you are going to continue to be quite so objectionable when all of the facts have been presented multiple times you could at least phrase your questions such that they can be both comprehended and answered.
PP is a wonderful waste of time imo
Cheers Cmdr's
Cheers Cmdr's
You are a troll. Now I am really done explaining things to a wall. Actually a wall would show more understanding.
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@Roen i cant make it more obvious, you have the datas, it works, if you can estimate the overhead with less than 5% error in 26/30 of cases with less than 20% on the last 4, it is pretty close. It is not the actual formula used by FD, but it's a good approximation.
--
I havent checked that one as much as the previous one but it would seem that the (n+1)th exploited sytem added to your power will add about 40.5*^2 / 1 000 000 CC
So at 500 systems :
If you succeed one expansion with 15 exploited systems(it varied from 12 to 20 in the last few cycles)
You add approximatively about 10x10+5*11 = 155CC of overheads, on top of upkeeps.
So if the system indicates +100 CC income, -20 CC upkeeps, it would in fact cost 75CC instead of giving a 80CC profit
--
I havent checked that one as much as the previous one but it would seem that the (n+1)th exploited sytem added to your power will add about 40.5*
^2 / 1 000 000 CCSo at 500 systems :
If you succeed one expansion with 15 exploited systems(it varied from 12 to 20 in the last few cycles)
You add approximatively about 10x10+5*11 = 155CC of overheads, on top of upkeeps.
So if the system indicates +100 CC income, -20 CC upkeeps, it would in fact cost 75CC instead of giving a 80CC profit
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