Sarah Jane Avory
Retro Queen
Lost my Asp last night in a 1v2 versus a Cobra and Viper.
You could be nicer.
Okay!
Next time it'll be 1v3... like 3 x the new improved AI Elite Vultures! How's that? 
All fights against AI = afterburn + FA off turning
- Thread starter Cidcaldensfey
- Start date
Okay!
Next time it'll be 1v3... like 3 x the new improved AI Elite Vultures! How's that? 
I personally think in some areas the combat AI is way too easy right now and a bit of a joke. There's some serious holes in its logic, but I'm addressing all those now. Players reversing was high on my list, and on my build that's sorted. So by the time I'm done (and until someone tells me to dial it back) high ranks (especially Elite) will be showing no mercy.
Will you be working on group AI in combat zones? Currently it feels like a bunch of bots collectively simulating AI Brownian motion, not a set of trained combat units.
Also, are you planning to simulate any awareness of what the player is doing with power management at the higher ranks? You can play a kind of rock-paper-scissors game between two opposing sets of power pip distributions, eg if it looks like the enemy has choked WEP because his beam lasers start going zap-zap-zap, press an attack, whereas if their shields are nearly down you can assume they have more pips in SYS so either turn rate or energy weapon output are going to be compromised.
Cripes yes, and mines that are more than a space based popcorn ejector. We want to be able to give our pursuers a CAM dusting* they won't forget in a hurry.
Mike, if you're still reading this thread - at some finite point in the future, can we have firework weapons for special events? Disco Laser, coloured firework rockets, multicoloured chaff and sparkly thruster wake injectors? Because at some point someone is going to need to throw a party in this game that has a bit more glitz than a guest in a gold skinned Viper.
* Consider Phlebas
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Okay!
Ehm, this sounds a bit unfair in Solo, if there is no possibility to recruit NPC wingmens.
I personally agree with a lot of posters in this thread, the AI has been so much improved since beta, back then it was so easy it just was no fun at all. SJA has done some great work, and continues to improve the AI.
I have never seen evidence of the AI behaving as in the OP post, i have seen AI using chaff, and boosting, and when losing trying to escape, all expected tactics.
This video posted earlier in this thread, is the proof the OP was looking for.
It was a recent video (18th june) it was 1.3 version, and a Viper takes out a DB in approx 2m 45s.
Look at approx 35m into the video.
Oh and Sarah, i use reverse tactics a lot to protect my Anaconda, and with cargo, i could lose 13m + cr, be nice.
Ok NO, make it hard and make my day. Bring it on.
[video=youtube;4OJUx-3qDdo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OJUx-3qDdo[/video]
I have never seen evidence of the AI behaving as in the OP post, i have seen AI using chaff, and boosting, and when losing trying to escape, all expected tactics.
This video posted earlier in this thread, is the proof the OP was looking for.
It was a recent video (18th june) it was 1.3 version, and a Viper takes out a DB in approx 2m 45s.
Look at approx 35m into the video.
Oh and Sarah, i use reverse tactics a lot to protect my Anaconda, and with cargo, i could lose 13m + cr, be nice.
Ok NO, make it hard and make my day. Bring it on.
[video=youtube;4OJUx-3qDdo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OJUx-3qDdo[/video]
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AI improvement on the way? THANKS AGAIN SARAH!!!
May I also suggest that NPCs learn to chase you properly after interdicting you? By promptly using subsequent boosts?
For instance, when I fly a fat Python interdicted by Viper security, I need to boost (slightly above 300m/s) only twice to be out of fire range and if I keep boosting, they cannot catch up. As per my experience, it seems that:
- They decide to go after me too late
- While they fly at full speed (310 m/s is the fastest a base Viper can go), they simply do not use boost (which is about 390m/s for a base Viper).
One could be scared being interdicted by a real player, while being interdicted by NPCs is nothing but a little inconvenience.
Changing that would both bring challenge and also get all these players learn not to simply submit and boost after an interdiction (except if they know their ship is faster than the one interdicting them).
Currently we have all these trader players who whine on the forum because this nasty pirate player took them down after they decided to submit and boost away in their T7. If NPC pirates would pose more of a threat, they would learn how to deal with, understand that piracy threat is part of the game and stop crying "griefer" every time they lose after taking the wrong decision...
May I also suggest that NPCs learn to chase you properly after interdicting you? By promptly using subsequent boosts?
For instance, when I fly a fat Python interdicted by Viper security, I need to boost (slightly above 300m/s) only twice to be out of fire range and if I keep boosting, they cannot catch up. As per my experience, it seems that:
- They decide to go after me too late
- While they fly at full speed (310 m/s is the fastest a base Viper can go), they simply do not use boost (which is about 390m/s for a base Viper).
One could be scared being interdicted by a real player, while being interdicted by NPCs is nothing but a little inconvenience.
Changing that would both bring challenge and also get all these players learn not to simply submit and boost after an interdiction (except if they know their ship is faster than the one interdicting them).
Currently we have all these trader players who whine on the forum because this nasty pirate player took them down after they decided to submit and boost away in their T7. If NPC pirates would pose more of a threat, they would learn how to deal with, understand that piracy threat is part of the game and stop crying "griefer" every time they lose after taking the wrong decision...
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I guess we will just have to get good at dodging interdiction, as it seems submit-boost-jump won't work.
Achilles7
Banned
the only ships that cause any sort of problem with their flying style are the Anaconda, Dropship and Clipper and even then, as u say, they just take longer to kill and are no threat, one on one. Oh and Elite should be Elite ie Im ranked dangerous and I should have to think twice before engaging one, currently that's not the case..in fact he should think twice before engaging me!..he or she!! (phew, nearly got myself in pc trouble there)
Whats your point? They don't use FAoff yet by using lat and vert thruster very effectively it amounts to the same thing really. Lets not avoid the main point he's making by arguing over terminology.
Dunno but I was under the impression the atmospheric flight controls and slow yaw was to avoid fights turning into "turrets" in space or "jousting in space" yet it looking like all these AI improvements are doing just that.
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Don't expect fair here SJA is on a crusade to make the AI as hard as she can, till she's told to tone it down as she has admitted, and seems to be letting herself egged on by a small vocal minority in these forums.
I think some people at FD are forgetting just who funded and helped make this game happen.
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Well, currently you are seeing some angry commanders who get blown up by players...if they would learn to escape dangerous NPCs, there would be way less whine about piracy on the forum.
EDIT: Besides, winning an interdiction is not hard against NPCs...
Also, I recall Dev stating that higher rank NPCs should not interdict so often low rank players.
I also wish low rank NPCs would stop interdicting high rank players and take into account what ship players fly (sure, everybody love being interdicted by a shieldless Adder while you fly a combat python, right?)
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Ah no, I am not complaining about hard AI. It is just not fair that NPCs can have wings and I (as a Solo player) cannot have NPC wingmens. I am 100% for a hard and smart AI. But let the game allow me to fight NPCs in the same number. 2v1 can sometimes by fun, but 3v1 is not doable with smart AI.
Or, more precisely, I welcome smart AI, but I must have same conditions as NPC has. For example NCP wings against player without the wing option is bad. Similary it will be bad if missiles or any other weapons fired by NPC will make bigger damage than players weapons/missiles. At least if NPCs are using the same ships and weapons as players do.
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I believe majority of players complaining the AI is too hard are beginners.
And the majority of players complaining Elite is boring, because there is no challenge, are players who have played for a little while.
Keeping the AI to easy would not help, now we can make it easier for beginners and harder for ranked players by having low/high rank NPCs interdict low/high rank players.
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I agree we should be able to wing up with NPC's, that would be cool, you never know, could this be the big secret announced at Gamescon soon.
I personally think in some areas the combat AI is way too easy right now and a bit of a joke. There's some serious holes in its logic, but I'm addressing all those now. Players reversing was high on my list, and on my build that's sorted. So by the time I'm done (and until someone tells me to dial it back) high ranks (especially Elite) will be showing no mercy.
learnt to fight or die - who can complain about that thanks for the AI upgrades
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When talking about the difficulty or "fairness" you can't just look at the AI but rather an ensemble of things which consern NPC activity, presently SJA is using all of these elements but not really thinking about how they end up meshing together overall.
Sorry, they do not. The AI bots are not able, nor programmed to do manoeuvrings that a pilot can't. They, however, are probably much more efficient in managing their velocity/acceleration/sweet maneuverable spot/ vectors than the average player. And probably even a little better than an elite (as in skilled) pilot.
SJA can achieve balance from harmless to Elite by varying the degree / speed / tactics / loadouts that those AI can use.
But from there to considering improvements to as equivalent of turret is to seriously misunderstand the core ans spirit of the AI behavior. A properly skilled pilot will and can do every maneuver that the AI can.
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