Perceived unfairness, or how to make people angry.

[Mike Evans]

At the same time, was it REALLY a good idea to lock them to a faction?

Locking them to a reputation like Clipper for Empire is one thing but limiting them to PP factions was a bit much I think (but that is merely my personal opinion).

It means people who want to TRY the modules must first of all bind themselves to a grind for 4 weeks before they can use one and cannot get it after they leave that faction.

Unlike the Clipper which is something one has to work for ONCE and then can buy it.

Which is another good reason these weren't designed to be game changing must have modules. If they were I imagine your point would be even more valid! However I think locking them to powers is a good idea despite your argument. If a player is so inclined they'll be able to find the info they want about these modules prior to joining a faction through forums and videos but as I said Power Play isn't about grinding to get a module so you shouldn't be going at it with that mindset because you could end up being disappointed with the result.

 

[Johnny Kelso]

Nobody promised you anything, you speculated something and acted on it and now whine on forum. Come on!

I wasn't whining, I was being sarcastic

 

[Mike Evans]

Hello Mike. I haven't personally used the weapon for Archon Delaine, but I've seen videos and it looks terrible. Very low range, little damage to the hull (which was the point), but not better shield damage than a laser.
It seems like a big downgrade, is its damage better than it seems?

It's DPS is better than anything else of that size against shields but not by miles. It's a hard weapon to get right because as soon as you fit multiples of them it can get a bit crazy. It does the job it was intended to do at the range it was intended to do it.

 

[iAmLegion]

Hello Commanders!

The changes to overhead affect everyone, not just Arissa. It's just that they focus on CC revenue flows for powers that are large in size, like Hudson and Arissa currently are.

We have no problem with powers failing, but we want to make sure the reasons are sound and focus it more on power conflict than powers becoming arbitrarily too large.

The reason WAS sound, her followers knew nothing about strategy, or at least very few followed the strategy put forth by their strategy people and thus they overdid things and they went bust.. then you come and change the rules. As a game designer myself i would never ever do a thing like this. happened and so it should be keept and the ALD people only have them selves to blame.

 

[fergal]

It's DPS is better than anything else of that size against shields but not by miles. It's a hard weapon to get right because as soon as you fit multiples of them it can get a bit crazy. It does the job it was intended to do at the range it was intended to do it.

Can you share an approximate % like 5% better?
I know balancing it is difficult, because many players run beams and multicannons, and don't use the beam on the hulls anyway, so making an laser that does no hull damage isn't that big a drawback to the weapon.

 

[Brucolac]

The power play weapons were always meant to be alternative weapons with unique traits that were not objectively better, just different. From a pure statistical point of the view the DPS and effectiveness of them have been tuned to ensure they're in line with similar sized normal weapons. I think the biggest gripe is that these weapons are actually on the smaller size which was by design. If there were large and huge versions of these things then I bet there wouldn't be such a backlash but then we'd also be making horribly game breaking weapons of god like proportions because their unique traits become too powerful at that level.

The biggest gripe is that some of them are better than others, not how large or small they are. It comes back to the B-word, Balance.

There were two mistakes made with the module rewards:
1) no-one knew what they'd be like until four weeks into release. That meant there were people grinding merits for 4 weeks, and some were then disappointed by the modules they received. The module stats should have been made available right at the start - after all, if they are just meant as a nice bonus, there'd be no harm saying what they did in advance.
2) creating items (or features) that are at best no different from what's in the game already, and at worst inferior to what's already available, is largely a waste of your time, i.e. why add something that no-one will use? People will look at it, go "Meh" and move back to whatever they were doing before.
For example, if you created a weapon called the Thargoid Devilfire that required a player to travel to the centre of the galaxy to buy it, only to find when they got there that it did the same damage than a class 1 multicannon but with a different sound effect, do you think the player would feel their time (and yours) had been well spent?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Which is another good reason these weren't designed to be game changing must have modules. If they were I imagine your point would be even more valid! However I think locking them to powers is a good idea despite your argument. If a player is so inclined they'll be able to find the info they want about these modules prior to joining a faction through forums and videos but as I said Power Play isn't about grinding to get a module so you shouldn't be going at it with that mindset because you could end up being disappointed with the result.

A bit hard when this information was completely unavailable at release of PP in regards to weapon stats, teaser videos and fitting requirements.

Yes, No module should ever be a must have but the amount of modules we DO have are rather slim pickings so naturally people will flock to a faction which has a new toy.

I LIKE that you do introduce more of them but I would rather see more variations as regular weapons instead of making a few special ones.

The pack launcher would be a nice alternative to ANY size of seeker missile for example and it would be interesting to see a dumbfire variant of it. Or what about a cluster mine launcher?

 

[iAmLegion]

Hello Commander Genus!

We have to make calls based on what we think is best for the game, so the criteria is always context-specific.

In this case, we want to prevent large powers from completely collapsing in a single cycle simply because of say, continued expansion. Nothing wrong with such activity becoming an issue with a power, just that the speed and scale of the effect was undesirable.

That's why we've softened overhead and are looking to make a few other changes described in Zac's post.

So, just to be clear, it's not about supporting one power over another or an attempt at controlling Powerplay. The changes are global and designed to prevent large powers effectively running off a cliff even when well supported.

Hello Commander CMDR Malkov!

I don't hate Archon! I think he's cool (in a villainous sort of way).

The reason we have made changes we did right now is simply because the issue was pretty severe so we wanted to address it sooner rather than later.

Hope this info helps a little.

The problem with the cussion wall instead of the brick wall is that you have now made actuall strategy almost meaning less, our strat team in eic is quite upset and all the work they have done is now mostly wasted. Another problem with this new "wall" is that the bigger powers can just keep pushing while we smaller factions even if we are smart can't keep up with them. In my eyes powerplay needs a complete redesign.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

It's DPS is better than anything else of that size against shields but not by miles. It's a hard weapon to get right because as soon as you fit multiples of them it can get a bit crazy. It does the job it was intended to do at the range it was intended to do it.

Would it be a problem to add restrictions to fitting multiples of a weapon?
Like adding that more than 2 of these weapons interfere with the powergrid or something on the ship.
Like having their fitting requirement increase the more you fit of them.
Like having multiple weapons of that type generate more heat than two regular weapons would normally do?

It would be nice if the weapon would at least shoot straight.

 

[Deadlock989]

Doesn't make my points any less valid. These weapons are also able to be used by everyone and not just the few that can afford the largest ships with the biggest hard points. At the end of the day power play isn't about grinding to get a module, the module is a bonus.

And yet that is exactly what many tens of people are doing. Because you designed it that way.

Can someone explain to me the precise difference between "we changed the metagame calculations so that it affected just one faction" and "we changed the metagame calculations so that it would potentially affect any and all factions in other unmaterialised hypothetical situations but actually only affected this one faction this one time"

 

[Deadlock989]

The reason WAS sound, her followers knew nothing about strategy, or at least very few followed the strategy put forth by their strategy people and thus they overdid things and they went bust.. then you come and change the rules. As a game designer myself i would never ever do a thing like this. happened and so it should be keept and the ALD people only have them selves to blame.

Yeah, because that makes great headlines and FD would be ecstatic to be reading snide Kotaku articles about the game universe that ate itself a month after the big new update.

Although that's probably just postponed.

 

[Ixaxaar]

The reason WAS sound, her followers knew nothing about strategy, or at least very few followed the strategy put forth by their strategy people and thus they overdid things and they went bust.. then you come and change the rules.

Well, considering that the game features zero tools to allow for proper coordination or team work, then having a strategy is a moot point imo. Unless they add proper in game communication tools, all the sub forums and sub reddits in the world won't be able to accurately coordinate an entire faction.

 

[Arry]

I have to say that I was becoming interested in power play and tinkered with it, a little with it myself, with the intention of making the extra effort to get myself to 3rd rank over this next cycle. I am still having issues with working out how to do what etc etc, but making the effort anyway. I have said before; I have pledged to a power, not sure what to do, but that is ok with me, I just kill everything that isn't from my power and I get a bonus at the end of the week. I have also spent, a little time, on moving stuff to prepare systems for my power; not a lot; again, because I am not sure what I am meant to be doing. Then this ALD fiasco happens and it makes me realise two things: 1, I know even less than I thought I did about power play mechanics and how I go about playing this part of the game and 2, the goal posts can be moved at any time, at the whim of FDs own expectations.

So; first: What are the facts? I ask this with the understanding that in a court of law, there are many 'sides' to the truth. You have the truth from the prosecution, the truth from the defence and then you have the FACTS. So, there must be players, not FD connected who have access to the facts. Understand that I am not saying that FD are just doing as they wish and then feeding us like mushrooms, but what I am saying is: Given FDs past game changing 'fixes' within this game, one has to question, their version of the truth.

Second: Considering that I play the power play side of the game, to enforce my chosen powers control and influence within the game and not for the credits or the new toys, am I wasting my time, if FD can and will come along and 'adjust' the numbers to fit their own long term game plan?

I waited for the end of cycle figures to come out and totally understand why ALD fell like she did. Which was basically due to player greed and lack of organisation, but I was not impressed by FDs intervention. Although after ploughing through reams of posts of the subject, it seems that FD did not really test PP enough at the beta stages and even if that had put more work into the testing, the results achieved may not have arisen, due to the limited numbers testing PP at the Beta stage. I have deliberately held my tongue and waited for the waters to calm before making any comments myself on the subject.

So, what are the facts and forgetting the toys and that credits, is it worth making the effort to try and make a difference within the power play structure as it stands today?

 

[CMDR Malkov]

Hello Commander CMDR Malkov!

I don't hate Archon! I think he's cool (in a villainous sort of way).

The reason we have made changes we did right now is simply because the issue was pretty severe so we wanted to address it sooner rather than later.

Hope this info helps a little.

Thanks for the reply Sandro. I wasn't of course suggesting that you personally or any of the other developers hate Archon, just the rest of the player base

Not knowing exactly how the elimination works for the bottom 3 powers is a little worrying.
We failed to expand last cycle in part due to this bug. The system we had chosen to focus simply did not spawn any resistance pockets.
If we fail to expand again are we in trouble? If you have a minute perhaps you could offer some reassurance or some insight into how the elimination part works.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The reason WAS sound, her followers knew nothing about strategy, or at least very few followed the strategy put forth by their strategy people and thus they overdid things and they went bust.. then you come and change the rules. As a game designer myself i would never ever do a thing like this. happened and so it should be keept and the ALD people only have them selves to blame.

And as usual, FD are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[SteveLaw]

And yet that is exactly what many tens of people are doing. Because you designed it that way.

Can someone explain to me the precise difference between "we changed the metagame calculations so that it affected just one faction" and "we changed the metagame calculations so that it would potentially affect any and all factions in other unmaterialised hypothetical situations but actually only affected this one faction this one time"

The conditions for the change were currently only met by one Power. Once any other Power meets those conditions they will also have the same change applied.

Let's use a very simple example.

If CC < 0 then CC = 100

Any power who falls below 0 CC will be reset to 100 CC. ALD just happens to be the only one to have fallen below 0 CC this cycle but any time ANY power falls below 0 CC then they will also be reset back to 100 CC.

 

[HeimdallofHavn]

It's DPS is better than anything else of that size against shields but not by miles. It's a hard weapon to get right because as soon as you fit multiples of them it can get a bit crazy. It does the job it was intended to do at the range it was intended to do it.

I just want to thank you guys for interacting on the forums like this.

It is extremly valuable for several reasons and I hope you continue.

Just don't forget to work on the game

 

[rdslw]

Hello Commander Genus!

We have to make calls based on what we think is best for the game, so the criteria is always context-specific.

In this case, we want to prevent large powers from completely collapsing in a single cycle simply because of say, continued expansion. Nothing wrong with such activity becoming an issue with a power, just that the speed and scale of the effect was undesirable.

That's why we've softened overhead and are looking to make a few other changes described in Zac's post.

So, just to be clear, it's not about supporting one power over another or an attempt at controlling Powerplay. The changes are global and designed to prevent large powers effectively running off a cliff even when well supported.

Sandro, I appreciate your work a lot. I'm thinking you misunderstood here, a reason with a result. The problem was ALD still expanded in last cycle - would they stop, the turmoil would be much smaller. This happened, because you can't block <euphemism>unaware<normal mode> cmdrs of your own power doing mindless preparations and expansions. Many aware ALD cmdrs were not able to stop them - this is a root cause. Your action didnt solve this root cause, but you changed underneath math, in a away such, that mindless preparation and expansion will still create problem, just later/differently.

This problem (inability to discipline mindless harming by your very own cmdrs) harms currently *all* powers.

Please consider solving root cause.

 

[Ixaxaar]

Marco, while appreciate your work a lot, I'm thinking you misunderstood here, a reason with a result. The problem was ALD still expanded in last cycle - would they stop, the turmoil would be much smaller. This happened, because you can't block <euphemism>unaware<normal mode> cmdrs of your own power doing mindless preparations and expansions. Many aware ALD cmdrs were not able to stop them - this is a root cause. Your action didnt solve this root cause, but you changed underneath math, in a away such, that mindless preparation and expansion will create problem later/differently.

This problem (inability to discipline mindless harming by your very own cmdrs) harms currently *all* powers.

Please consider solving root cause.

This is it; it wasn't because of 'greed' or anything like that, buit rather an inability to undertake any meaningful communications/coordination in-game. It'd be like a country unleashing its entire military onto a battlefield with no orders and expecting a coordinated result. Madness!

 

[Deadlock989]

And as usual, FD are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Yeah

Sucks to be a multi-million pound turnover software developer

- - - Updated - - -

The conditions for the change were currently only met by one Power. Once any other Power meets those conditions they will also have the same change applied.

Let's use a very simple example.

If CC < 0 then CC = 100

Any power who falls below 0 CC will be reset to 100 CC. ALD just happens to be the only one to have fallen below 0 CC this cycle but any time ANY power falls below 0 CC then they will also be reset back to 100 CC.

Yes, that is completely obvious, thank you for dumbing it down for me.

Perhaps you could answer my original question, which I'll dumb down for you in return: what is the practical difference between saying "we made a change that affects everyone, not a change that only affects one faction" and "we made a change that only affects one faction so far, purely coincidentally the faction that crashed and burned yesterday".