Yep, and this thread has been linked from reddit an hour ago.
Gee wiz, I wonder what happens next.
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The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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Gee wiz, I wonder what happens next.
Captured for posterity
View attachment 49975
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I knew there was something the OP said that was tickling the back of my mind.....
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Why would one guild attack another guild? All that would happen (if the players were smart), is block the letterslot and hide inside the station. We know that a station can't be destroyed and eventually the automatic station defences would take care of any attackers. So what would be the use of attacking a station?
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
indeed..... this was my concern from the getgo... it spoils an otherwise interesting discussion, but I have seen it all before on other topics with friends mailing me asking me to up vote random tat that i have no interest in. (I always ignore
)I'm slowly coming around to the idea of "guilds" but not in the way that a lot of folks are wanting. For me I think the best solution isn't about letting players create guilds but by allowing pre built guilds to exist in the game. For example, the EvE online starter corps that everyone joins. It's an NPC guild that allows commanders to communicate with each other. If we could get to join each small faction in a meaningful way by signing up to them and having a game wide communication tool it would allow us to expand and support minor factions around the galaxy. That way no go areas and factional conflict is done within the game lore and not by a "player guild".
This could then be tied into the factional ownership of stations, but if a faction takes over a station it needs to be restocked and resupplied and missions should then be generated by that faction to entice commanders to bring in needed materials, Fuel, water, food, spare parts etc etc. Factional stations should also start bringing in taxation for non factional commanders to do business at the station, this way you want to have commanders visit because the taxation gives the faction money to improve facilities but the players supporting that faction gets the benefit of not having to pay the taxes. All of this should be done by the background simulation and not dictated over by players, but at the same time gives players a vested interest in factional expansion and protection.
So, as far as the poll goes. I vote for none of the options, as I think there is a better option that could work with the current system that could be better.
This could then be tied into the factional ownership of stations, but if a faction takes over a station it needs to be restocked and resupplied and missions should then be generated by that faction to entice commanders to bring in needed materials, Fuel, water, food, spare parts etc etc. Factional stations should also start bringing in taxation for non factional commanders to do business at the station, this way you want to have commanders visit because the taxation gives the faction money to improve facilities but the players supporting that faction gets the benefit of not having to pay the taxes. All of this should be done by the background simulation and not dictated over by players, but at the same time gives players a vested interest in factional expansion and protection.
So, as far as the poll goes. I vote for none of the options, as I think there is a better option that could work with the current system that could be better.
Why would people on reddit be subscribed if they don't play ?
The game is selling relatively well, and my guess is that the change in direction may come after the game starts losing playerbase in more significant numbers, to try and rescue it.
We are far away from that, and even thought I am not opposed to the idea (I voted yes
The change in direction happened 9 months or so ago. What you are discussing is another change in direction even further away from the vision DBOBE sold us on.
I completely agree with you ... NO to player owned stations.
I thought David was against it, until I watched the EGX 2014 link Robert posted earlier in this thread ... David actually says he wants player owned stations in Elite Dangerous.
He means that people on reddit but not on here will sign up here just so they can change this poll.
I really cannot be bothered to sign up to reddit to change theirs.
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That's actually an other advantage for large guilds. With only 32 players in one instance they can bring 48 players and attack the station of a small guild without the small guild able to counter it as they have more players in two instances than the small guild. If the small guild has more than 16 members the larger guild can bring more and more and at some point the small guild will simply be outnumbered in the instances.
On top of that the rest of the large guild is free to do other things like hunting small guild CMDRs that don't participate in the battle or earning money for insurance.
A large guild, especially if the members of that guild are from different time zones, simply can force the small guild to fight until the small guild runs out of resources. A small guild doesn't have the resources to defend their station 24/7 while a large guild can attack that station 24/7. The instancing system favors large guilds.
This sounds good as well. Although I don't understand why player guilds would any different from NPC guilds in the rp sense. NPCs already camp nav beacons and try to interdict you. And in PP if you go to a hostile systems every tries to kill you.
In other words....bullying
The part I put in Bold and underlined doesn't make sense. Are you saying that if somone was not flagged for PvP, they could still attack another player? That would be too easy to exploit. PvP player drops shields and cuts in front of the non-PvP player who is attacking an NPC. Non-PvP player is now not only wanted, but is forced into PvP. No thanks.
Because what would you rather be up against an in game faction called "Monarchy of Lave" or a player made guild called "Free noobs at Lave"? If we wish to stick with the feel of the game then player made guilds would either need to have vetted guild names or exist outside the game as supporters of a factional option.
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that is a good question...... I do not know the answer.
It is like why does my dad argue about football even though he has little interest in it?
just because I cannot see their logic however does not mean i am not certain they exist.
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We all know nobody would do that!
That is my biggest issue from playing eve. If you didn't have members from around the world to cover your stations 24/7 you would lose. We need to brainstorm a way to get around that.
I'm going to pass out guys. I fully expect you intelligent people to have that problem solved by morning.
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Maybe a council of elders that approves names?
How about FDEV taking a copy of its Shadowban Server and turn that into a Guild Server - that way you'd be able to safely separate the guild players, and the majority of us who are playing ED without the need to turn it into EvE can go on playing happily.
(Yes, I know - teehee!)
This is not directed specifically at you, but at the general trend towards "No, this is in Eve so I don't want it" in this thread and elsewhere.
Look, I get why people are wary and defensive about Elite turning into Eve, I really do, and I entirely agree that we don't want to import the cruelty and bullying that passes for a lot of the social interaction in that game. BUT, Eve has survived and - mostly - thrived for over 10 years amid the broken and festering remains of everything else that has ever tried to compete with Warcraft on a subscription basis. If Eve had never done anything right, people wouldn't be having conversations about it all over these forums.
To just refuse to even consider any of the truly vast array of features that exist in Eve because "Eve is bad because the mean nullsec players wouldn't let me in their space, this feature is in Eve, therefore this feature is bad" is shortsighted and counterproductive. It backs Elite into an incredibly tight design corner before it's even got started properly and closes off all sorts of interesting options.
My point is, it's possible to consider objectively how we might implement features like these, without all this knee-jerking and pearl-clutching over whether they're going to turn Elite into Eve, because the reasons why that can't happen are already baked into the game from the start.
These are:
1. An effectively infinite galaxy.
2. No chokepoints.
3. Solo and private group.
Eve differs on these three points because it is designed as a simulation of a total war pipeline shaped economy that takes resources, turns them into war materiel, then dumps that into a fiery bottomless pit of endless conflict in order to create further demand. To do this, it needs conflict drivers, and that means scarcity and territorial control. And this is fine, and it does it very well.
Elite is not a large scale war game. Due to these fundamental design differences, Elite turning into a pvp territorial conquest game like Eve is something that simply cannot happen. It is impossible to enforce a militarised border in Elite because it can always be circumvented. In a scenario where you allow people to build stations in unclaimed space, it is impossible to take over all the space and tax or exclude everyone who doesn't join your empire, because there is always more space and you can always get to it.
Stop worrying about whether proposed features are going to turn Elite into Eve. Stop trying to be not-Eve at the expense of actually making a good multiplayer game with group features and stuff to do together. Start considering whether features and ideas might make the game better on their own merits, because Elite is designed to prevent exactly this scenario from happening and we can change things without fear!
Adding some decent group and communication functions beyond Wings is not going to conjure Goonswarm out of the void like some sort of angry djinn to start conquering the galaxy and ganking all the freighters. Given an infinite galaxy to play with anyone who puts an afternoon's thought into it can design a system of player owned stations where expanding into virgin territory is always vastly cheaper and easier than conquest, to incentivize the former and discourage the latter.
If these features aren't desirable because of an ethos or artistic vision about the lone wolf pilot in a vast and uncaring universe, fine, let's have that debate.
Just stop worrying about the Eve players under the bed.
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