Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jordan Cobalt]

Once the Major Faction wide bounties are introduced, you could bankrupt yourself, if you're not careful....

Wait, major faction bounty update? When was this announced?

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I've actually gotten to the point now (thanks to this thread) where I wish FD would just disable all PvP and tell folks to play CQC for PvP (Once CQC hits PC that is).
Or only allow PvP in private groups and have it disabled in open mode.

Yes good, give into the hate. Feel what it's like to want FD to force your playstyle on others. Feels pretty good doesnt it?

 

[Mouse]

Wait, major faction update?

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Yes good, give into the hate. Feel what it's like to want FD to force your playstyle on others. Feels pretty good doesnt it?

May have to do with the Emperor awakening?

And FD isn't forcing a playstyle on people.. they give you choices

 

[Tuub t Tute]

May have to do with the Emperor awakening?

And FD isn't forcing a playstyle on people.. they give you choicses

FD are giving away choc ices? Nobody told me!

I think in one of Zac's official posts in the last couple of days he said something about "Wait until the faction-wide bounties come in..." in response to someone saying all they needed to do was only PK in systems they had no intention of going back to.

 

[relayer]

You know, I'm fed up trying to explain this to people as well.
Power Play is not a direct confrontational Player Versus Player mechanic - and yet, open advocates either don't get it, or refuse to get it.

and also, from Mouse:

"you do realize that Power play is a PVE mechanic and is akin to an election in the real world. You vote to fortify, I vote to undermine.. same as if Joe voted to raises taxes and Fred voted to lower them. If Fred looses the election he does not have the right to go find Joe and beat him up or kill him becaues of Joe's vote. That is all powerplay is... elections in the Universe we both share."


I have attempted to make this point in various places in this thread. It does not sink in.
Most politics are, in their nature, subterranean; backroom deals, ambassadorial threats, trade embargoes, prisoner exchanges, private golf matches... I could go on. And on. But there is no point.

People who think politics should be head-on outright war have no knowledge of politics; war is what happens when politics fail. The Powers are not at outright war (yet) and so the work of undermining, fortifying and using the rest of the tools of statecraft in PowerPlay goes on until there is an open declaration of war between Powers. FD has made those tools available to everyone, in every mode.

I think it's a brilliant overlay.

 

[Cody]

Is the emperor awakening? Has he turned into a penguin yet?

 

[Mouse]

FD are giving away choc ices? Nobody told me!

I think in one of Zac's official posts in the last couple of days he said something about "Wait until the faction-wide bounties come in..." in response to someone saying all they needed to do was only PK in systems they had no intention of going back to.

That is what I get for typing fast while doing something else.. I miss my errors

and there was a notification the other day about the Emeperor waking from his coma.

 

[Faded Glory]

I understand it's Frontier's vision for the game, but I worry about them sticking to it so doggedly.
There are many, many players who don't use this forum let alone post in this thread. Some think I am crazy to even bother posting here and sometimes I can see why. Mostly it's the same group of people populating this thread, offering the same mantras, smugness and sarcasm to anybody raising concerns or offering suggestions. It's even a bit tragic at times tbh

This thread desperately tries to pretend that there are no problems. That Frontier has spoken and it's just a few griefers who are complaining because they have nobody to shoot.

If you read Reddit, or listen to people playing the game you get a very different picture I think. There is hardly anybody saying that these things are not a problem or that the mechanics are working just fine in this respect. Most of them support solo and group as choices so it has nothing to do with forcing people into open so they can act as content or cannon fodder. People feel "forced" into solo in ED if anything - that's the troubling reality that needs addressing.

Anyway I will bow out of this thread now. I hope some at least have understood the concerns I've raised and don't still see it all as some us and them battle of pvp griefers against peace loving folk.

But the thing is CMDR Malkov, it doesn't matter what we on this forum think, nor those on Reddit, not even the friends you chat with in game. It matters what FD think, not only because it is their game, but more importantly because they have the facts, they know how many people are playing, in what mode, what they are doing, how long they spend playing. We don't.

We're not pretending there is no problem, FD are, by their words and actions, telling everybody that the game is working to their expectations. The fact that we are satisfied with that is not reason to insult.

You can accuse us of smugness, sarcasm, whatever, but in the end, we are just responding to the aggressive, insinuating, even downright insulting (and decidedly unoriginal at times) arguments being put before us. "Solo is for cowards to hide, Open is for real men, warriors", and the like. Or the ones crying that the game is unfair, "how can I stop (read shoot) another player when I can't see them?" The responses to those were perfectly polite, trying to explain the mechanisms (of PP). If you take a look at post #9233, you will see a constructive criticism of a mechanic that isn't working, and from what I could see, not one post arguing with that CMDR.

So, while your concern for the games wellbeing is admirable, don't kid yourself that people arguing points with you aren't just as concerned for the wellbeing of the game, nor that FD aren't concerned either. Yours is not the only vision for how this game should be, and nor is mine (plenty of issues from where I'm sitting). In the end, it's FD's vision that counts for most, and we're all entitled to voice our opinions on these forums. If it's done with respect and decency, so much the better.

 

[Mouse]

But the thing is CMDR Malkov, it doesn't matter what we on this forum think, nor those on Reddit, not even the friends you chat with in game. It matters what FD think, not only because it is their game, but more importantly because they have the facts, they know how many people are playing, in what mode, what they are doing, how long they spend playing. We don't.

We're not pretending there is no problem, FD are, by their words and actions, telling everybody that the game is working to their expectations. The fact that we are satisfied with that is not reason to insult.

You can accuse us of smugness, sarcasm, whatever, but in the end, we are just responding to the aggressive, insinuating, even downright insulting (and decidedly unoriginal at times) arguments being put before us. "Solo is for cowards to hide, Open is for real men, warriors", and the like. Or the ones crying that the game is unfair, "how can I stop (read shoot) another player when I can't see them?" The responses to those were perfectly polite, trying to explain the mechanisms (of PP). If you take a look at post #9233, you will see a constructive criticism of a mechanic that isn't working, and from what I could see, not one post arguing with that CMDR.

So, while your concern for the games wellbeing is admirable, don't kid yourself that people arguing points with you aren't just as concerned for the wellbeing of the game, nor that FD aren't concerned either. Yours is not the only vision for how this game should be, and nor is mine (plenty of issues from where I'm sitting). In the end, it's FD's vision that counts for most, and we're all entitled to voice our opinions on these forums. If it's done with respect and decency, so much the better.

+1 Well said

 

[Majinvash]

Once the Major Faction wide bounties are introduced, you could bankrupt yourself, if you're not careful....

Na you just make sure you don't dock in a major faction station, simples.

Anarchy for the win!

People that pay off bounties.. How cute

Majinvash

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Just came back to add, yet again, a big 'yawn yawn yawn' to this discussion...
Slope around in the background without any consequence or comeback to your actions. Fine. But please FD, let open be open and get separate servers for the solo crowd.

It's hard enough as it is without your behind-the-scenes influence that i have no say or sway over... Undermine, expand, control, whatever, but do it in front of me, not behind my back...

I remember a time gone buy when the term buyer beware meant something. Sadly in this modern era when we can blindly act in ignorance and them moan and complain about it afterwards tovget changes made, reimbursed or get compensation.

I prefer the old ways. The info was there about the modes and switching before you purchased. If you did not research it please do not take it out on those who did

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

That's true, that's why there's no crime in any town ever.

That would make absolutely zero difference to me. I still wont pay my bounties, and still will evade anyone coming after me with relative ease. The person who will like it is the bounty hunter who does eventually kill me. He'll be able to buy an "A" grade anaconda with his proceeds.

No not if only part of it was a bounty. The other part could be a fine to come out of the killers coffers to go to the insurance company who is seriously out of pocket.

I have no issue with piracy my beef is with the killers for lols of clean players and imo the cost in time for them on eventual destruction should be on a par with the cumulative time they have cost the players they committed crimes against.

 

[Daffan]

and also, from Mouse:

"you do realize that Power play is a PVE mechanic and is akin to an election in the real world. You vote to fortify, I vote to undermine.. same as if Joe voted to raises taxes and Fred voted to lower them. If Fred looses the election he does not have the right to go find Joe and beat him up or kill him becaues of Joe's vote. That is all powerplay is... elections in the Universe we both share."


I have attempted to make this point in various places in this thread. It does not sink in.
Most politics are, in their nature, subterranean; backroom deals, ambassadorial threats, trade embargoes, prisoner exchanges, private golf matches... I could go on. And on. But there is no point.

People who think politics should be head-on outright war have no knowledge of politics; war is what happens when politics fail. The Powers are not at outright war (yet) and so the work of undermining, fortifying and using the rest of the tools of statecraft in PowerPlay goes on until there is an open declaration of war between Powers. FD has made those tools available to everyone, in every mode.

I think it's a brilliant overlay.

Because this system is really bad and boring

Sorry, but grinding endless spawning nameless couriers is not great design for a FACTION vs FACTION war

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I must admit I myself do not have much interest in PP either yet. But that is not a reason to change the modes of the game. Personally I am staying out of the PP for now I may check it out again in the future

 

[ianw]

Because this system is really bad and boring

Sorry, but grinding endless spawning nameless couriers is not great design for a FACTION vs FACTION war

It's not really meant to be all out war though is it?

It's more like everybody v everybody cold war politicking with ship destruction thrown in.

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I must admit I myself do not have much interest in PP either yet. But that is not a reason to change the modes of the game. Personally I am staying out of the PP for now I may check it out again in the future

Pretty much the same here - it seems to be a work in progress - when and if they get it settled I will take another look.

 

[Mohrgan]

From the 'Answers from the Dev's #2' thread posted just yesterday.

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?

No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

This should go a long way to quieting this debate down. But, it won't. The open only sentiment will continue to show up again and again.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

People can claim all they like that the mechanics of the game work just fine with 3 modes and a shared galaxy.
They don't.

That's some seriously provocative argument right there.

You pitched it by your opening statement: They, and then brilliantly argued towards the conclusion: don't. I'll have to do some fact checking and logical analysis on that one before I dare to respond in a manner deserving of such a well thought out post.

*time passes*

Ok, I think I've got this one:

They do.

 

[Jockey79]

From the 'Answers from the Dev's #2' thread posted just yesterday.

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?

No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

This should go a long way to quieting this debate down. But, it won't. The open only sentiment will continue to show up again and again.

It's been shown.
As per normal, people think they know better than those making the game and refuse to accept it.
Or they scream and shout because they just want to make others miserable and the Devs are showing they won't support that.

I'm looking forward to seeing other games come out with it (Shroud of the Avatar) or similar systems to give players choices (Star Citizen) so they can choose who to play with.
It is a sad time for trolls and griefers, these systems mark the end of their grip, their reign over MMOs (EVE Online for example) and how people play them.

Actions have consequences - trolls and griefers have brought mode switching upon themselves. If they had not be so zealous over trying to make others miserable, it may never have happened.
I, for one, don't care. I've only ever played online games with real life friends, so it has no impact on me. Mobius is catering for social gamers, so all is good there. Honest PvPers are getting CQC or can make a PvP group.
As far as I can tell, the only ones who are getting left out, are the ones who brought this change in game design about in the first place.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I understand it's Frontier's vision for the game, but I worry about them sticking to it so doggedly.
There are many, many players who don't use this forum let alone post in this thread. Some think I am crazy to even bother posting here and sometimes I can see why. Mostly it's the same group of people populating this thread, offering the same mantras, smugness and sarcasm to anybody raising concerns or offering suggestions. It's even a bit tragic at times tbh

That Frontier published their game design at the outset of the Kickstarter, over two and a half years ago, have stuck to the core features in contention in this thread (and many others like it in the intervening period), launched the game with the features intact on PC, then Mac and, in time, XBox One soon and PS4 at some point, simply means that they are doing / have done what they set out to do and sought backing to ensure that there was sufficient appetite among the gaming community for such a game.

It is the choice of any player to participate in these forums - if players choose not to, then that is ultimately their decision.

Indeed there are a number of active participants in these threads who speak out when "new" proposals are made to change the game to suit one play-style or another. What may seem to be a mantra is, in my opinion, a simple re-stating of known facts about the game and relevant quotes from the Developers and DBOBE himself on the topic - the most recent Dev Answer being a succinct and unambiguous re-statement of Frontier's position with respect to the three game modes and a re-iteration of DBOBE's expressed opinion that there is no "right" way to play the game. The "smugness" you speak of is, in my opinion, a confidence that Frontier will not change the game this late in the day to suit a vocal subset of those who post on these forums (and others) - again with no guarantee that any of the posters actually own the game. If sarcasm has been encountered, I expect that it is not solely offered by those who resist proposals for changing core features of the game.

What may seem tragic to those who want the game to be changed to suit their play-style may well be quite acceptable to those who neither share the play-style nor wish to see it encouraged in-game.

 

[Scudmungus]

That Frontier published their game design at the outset of the Kickstarter, over two and a half years ago, have stuck to the core features in contention in this thread (and many others like it in the intervening period), launched the game with the features intact on PC, then Mac and, in time, XBox One soon and PS4 at some point, simply means that they are doing / have done what they set out to do and sought backing to ensure that there was sufficient appetite among the gaming community for such a game.

It is the choice of any player to participate in these forums - if players choose not to, then that is ultimately their decision.

Indeed there are a number of active participants in these threads who speak out when "new" proposals are made to change the game to suit one play-style or another. What may seem to be a mantra is, in my opinion, a simple re-stating of known facts about the game and relevant quotes from the Developers and DBOBE himself on the topic - the most recent Dev Answer being a succinct and unambiguous re-statement of Frontier's position with respect to the three game modes and a re-iteration of DBOBE's expressed opinion that there is no "right" way to play the game. The "smugness" you speak of is, in my opinion, a confidence that Frontier will not change the game this late in the day to suit a vocal subset of those who post on these forums (and others) - again with no guarantee that any of the posters actually own the game. If sarcasm has been encountered, I expect that it is not solely offered by those who resist proposals for changing core features of the game.

What may seem tragic to those who want the game to be changed to suit their play-style may well be quite acceptable to those who neither share the play-style nor wish to see it encouraged in-game.

yes, but apaaaaart from aaaaaaaaaaall of dat, wots yah point?

 

[FuzzySpider]

yes, but apaaaaart from aaaaaaaaaaall of dat, wots yah point?

I think he is saying, in a very polite way, that moaning is pointless - they aren't going to change this.