I don't necessarily like the idea of the killer being forced to pay 100% of the insurance cost because that then removes nearly ALL risk from the profession of trading, this could then flip the roles of the trader and pirate and actually encourage traders to attack pirates knowing that evenight if they die then oh well it's no loss to them. There has to be some middle ground where there is still risk involved and therefore incentive for the trader to at least bargain with the pirate but also limit the losses but not completely negate them should someone be killed by a trolling PKer.
Pirates and Traders
- Thread starter your everyday pirate
- Start date
I don't necessarily like the idea of the killer being forced to pay 100% of the insurance cost because that then removes nearly ALL risk from the profession of trading, this could then flip the roles of the trader and pirate and actually encourage traders to attack pirates knowing that evenight if they die then oh well it's no loss to them. There has to be some middle ground where there is still risk involved and therefore incentive for the trader to at least bargain with the pirate but also limit the losses but not completely negate them should someone be killed by a trolling PKer.
You're right I hadn't considered that. Lol thanks hmm thanks friend
Yup, balance is tricky lol
You can't tell people how to act as a pirate because you have a romanticized view of that career. If the pirate has the advantage the pirate can make the demands. The trader can either meet those demands or not, it is then up to the pirate to free or destroy the trader.
Hell the pirate doesn't even have to make any demands as all it takes is to crack the cargo hatch and be done with it.
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mavrac im gonna sum up your argument in one key sentence
PIRATES KILL CAUSE ITS FASTETR THYEN DISABELING
what part of PEOPLE LOG OFF WHEN THEY ARE SHOT(ie combat logging (read shots are fired) and the pirate kills them in the 15 second window
people stop loging pirates stop killing, simple as that
PIRATES KILL CAUSE ITS FASTETR THYEN DISABELING
what part of PEOPLE LOG OFF WHEN THEY ARE SHOT(ie combat logging (read shots are fired) and the pirate kills them in the 15 second window
people stop loging pirates stop killing, simple as that
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Lol, I don't think pk'ING will stop anytime soon, the whole argument seems like a waste of time. There will always be traders who run and refuse to drop cargo for their own reasons, and pirates who will kill for not dropping cargo.....and bounty hunters who hunt pirates not because they are killers but clearly because they are wanted. There is no way to know what someone is wanted for and I am not buying the idea that bounty hunters actually care. If traders or anyone for that matter doesn't want to run the risk of being attacked by some random pilot they shouldn't be in open at this point. Yes, I do think a pve server for those not looking for this would be nice. But what is that gonna be? A server where cmdr on cmdr damage is nullified? Because private server on pc requires you to add your friends I believe. So you would still either need friends already, or go into open to potentially meet that pk'ing player anyway. One way or the other, it just seems that the answer is don't play open or fly a ship you can afford to lose mutual times or, play open only in a wing. That nova fleet group is there for those looking for like minded players. I just can't see how pk'ing is even as bad as its made out to be here. Like, 99 percent of the time.....I don't even see anyone else and when I do, I messege them and they don't even respond much less attack me! Lol. I wish I knew how many players are getting bullied by pk'ers, because it's always the same two or three people I see talking about it on the forums and they all claim to have pythons that can fight anyone.....so what's the problem? Just kill the pk'ers when you see them. No need to go on about it for days in every post that's supposed to be about piracy.
The difference is is that killing players is supported by the game mechanics and combat logging is a cheat/exploit.
Most pirates disable first and then kill when there's no cargo dropped or kill by accident when the trader is trying to escape.
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LOL - Sounds like victim blaming, but you aint wrong.
In theory, it is the insurance company who would be going after the killer. They are the ones taking a hit if the ship is destroyed. At least that interpretation results in a useful mechanic, and has origin in real life. When I got hit by an uninsured motorist, my insurance company went after him, and I was due the first payment to cover my deductible that I had to pay for to get repaired before the insurance got their money. So things really do work that way.
I think he might have been referring to the actual combat logging mechanic with the 15 second timer (which is way too short btw). I could be wrong here though.
I think a better option would be for the pirate to be made to forfeit their ship and all the upgrades on it that was used in the murder next time they dock, or their insurance invalidated, along with an extra large murder bounty on their head (that should be available for search on the bbs to encourage bounty hunters to take out the worst offenders).
This way, if the pirate fires first, they might learn to be more careful about how they then disable the trader, and if the trader fires first, it's self defence so there would be no forfeit... seems logical to me.
For those serial killers who decide to never dock, the bounty should just keep going up, thus encouraging a good old fasioned manhunt ...
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Better yet.. remove piracy altogether so we can all engage in monotonous trading in near absolute safety.
/sarcasm
That's not what I and many others on here are suggesting at all.
A professional pirate, i.e non-griefer, would just be able to disable a trader without killing them - if not, then it seems to me that they probably are a griefer and therefore the penalty for such behaviour should be very high. It should be elite "dangerous" for the griefers and pirates not just passive players minding their own.
There is nothing wrong with pirating if done properly - disable ship, steal cargo, or target cargo hatch if they run - with much stiffer penalties, and bounties not being able to be easily rid of with the buy cheap sidewinder and die trick, it's then pirate's choice whether to risk a murder charge, or play nicelyish.
You're absolutely right, I can't tell people how to play the game, no matter which role they're playing, I am however entitled to my opinion just like everyone else. My view is not based on romance, it's based on logic.
The only thing a pirate gains from killing is a larger bounty and a trader that will possibly be frustrated into playing in solo. Ships don't drop cargo when destroyed, there is absolutely no monetary gain to be had from destroying the trader. There are plenty of mechanics already built into the game that facilitate successful and lucrative pirating, they're not perfect but the game is still under development and we all knew this before purchasing.
So I stand by my previous statement, a player that intentionally kills another player outside of self-defense is not a pirate, they're a murderer. If you kill a trader while attempting to pirate them you either lack the necessary skills to pirate them successfully or you simply do it out of spite.
Okay. I see what you mean. For the sake of argument, I think the reason some kill traders who refuse to drop cargo is because they want to teach them 'they either drop something or die'. So, if you don't think that's right, where does the pirate draw the line?
Say a trader refuses to stop, and refuses to drop cargo. So the pirate continues to fire until the trader reaches ten percent hull, but even then the trader refuses to drop cargo. The pirate fires hatch breaker, and before it hacks the trader manages to jump, getting away with 10 percent hull and all his cargo. So what then would make the trader think he should ever drop cargo? Just trying to understand how you think more specifically a pirate could make a trader drop cargo without any threat of death. I'm not saying a trader should be killed, but he probably needs to think he will be or why would he listen? I'm really trying to reason out how to do that if you never kill anyone, or there is no threat of death.
I like having the risk of pirates (bloodthirsty and otherwise) in the game and I hope this doesn't become another game that caters to the crying and whining of people who can't accept the game the way it's designed. I don't want my ship blown up, or to lose cargo, or to have to buy a cheap ship and start all over. But I would not enjoy the game if it weren't realistic. You are way too sensitive a person, that is your problem and yours alone.
I can understand what you're getting at. Wanting to 'teach that defiant trader a lesson' the only problem is killing a player will not make them submit next time it will most likely either make then immediately flee/open fire next time or simply push them to solo.
IMO the pirate should be equipped in such a way that the traders compliance isn't necessary but is rather allowed if the trader is willing. You can equip class 1 cannons or pulse lasers to ensure that when targeting a traders drives you're doing more damage to the subsystem than the hull and disable their ship that way, if they escape you should have a wake scanner and you can simply follow and interdict again, use lasers to remove shields and limpets to open cargo hatches rather than weapons. There's only 1 scenario in which a pirate should kill a trader, and that's if the trader insists on fighting and only after attempting to disable then in your more combat capable vessel, even then it's optional. As for the trader being willing to drop cargo you have to give then a reason to.
My process usually goes something like this. Interdict>scan>ask for 10T of most valuable cargo if they have any
If they don't comply I let them know that I will simply TAKE the cargo and by making me do so I'll take a full cargo load for myself (32T)
If they run follow through, if they open fire THEN they need fear for their life.
And if I choose to play the role of a psychopath I'll be screwed? You are basically saying to remove the ability of murderers to dock as that would be the result of your suggestion. That's rubbish. I should be able to play the game how I want to without getting shafted because others get too emotional. And if it should be "elite dangerous" for anyone, I'd imagine it should be the one raking in ridiculous amounts of credits with ease.
Now I'm not saying that the systems are in a good place right now, because they aren't, but you can't just go and get rid of a playstyle because you don't agree with it.
Okay nothing wrong with any of that, I can't say it doesn't sound reasonable. The thing is though, if a trader gambles his stuff knowing he might get his ship destroyed, and then goes solo because he did, wouldn't it be reasonable to think that the said trader was probably gonna wind up going solo mode anyway? On pc I did exactly that, simply because I did not want to risk my cargo. I do think your technique is an honorable one I will say that. I just kinda feel like those that go solo cause of death are eventually headed there no matter what. If humanity actually makes it into space travel the way it's depicted in elite, I cannot imagine it being free from the danger of death. But seriously, I can respect the fact you are trying as hard as you are to do piracy in this way. Hopefully FD can balance some stuff in the future that may make pirating and trading in some zones more 'consenting' toward both players. Perhaps the high and low sec zones some other members have suggested might allow this. I know I can make some half decent credits pirating npc's in anarchy zones they have Rares and stuff. But I have never seen a cmdr trading in any of those. There goes that. If traders were given bonuses for bringing goods to places where pvp piracy was a known threat, perhaps the grief in factor would be lower as they would expect that kind of thing there. Also enabling the BH's out there to merchandise out there services more.