The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[M00ka]

<<Snip - A wall of text in multiple fonts and colours SNIP >

Malpherian, I have to ask this: If Guilds are so important to you, and you were so important to a Guild to be their recruiter in Eve, you know, the game with 5 million players, why did you decided to play Elite. You must have known that Guilds were not implemented, the architect isn't designed for more that 32 players in an instance, there isn't a financial setup that would work with Guilds.

It is like me going from BF2 to COD4 and constantly complaining there are no vehicles, the gameplay sucks and the maps are too small. I am actually beginning to wonder if you actually play Elite or just trying to get your Eve Guild into Elite. So far all you have done is put down anyone who disagrees, often with irrelevant links to obscure articles. You portray guild concept as all unicorns and rainbows, everyone will behave, no body will be disadvantaged, everyone will profit.

So you tell me, and I am sure there are others that would like to know as well: Just what do you think having Guilds in Elite will achieve? How will it benefit the entire Elite Community? Can you guarantee that the current situation of players being able to freely go where they want will be continued? Explain to me why Guilds should not be in a Group by themselves and leave Open for anyone who wants to play?

Awaiting your answer!

 

[Mohrgan]

So because you have IT issues multiplayer and guilds should not be in the game, That might be the most arrogant thing I have ever read!
In solo mode you should not see or be affected by any guilds period so I am unsure as to why you are taking any side on this issue.
I am 42, not quite 50 but I am closer to 50 than I am to 20 If you get your IT issues ironed out we can form an old guys guild

I know I know you say the word guild and people automatically think griefing and that can be true if it is not done correctly.I am not particularly interested in seeing a guild system that creates a hostile unplayable game where everyone gets shot on sight and you can't play it due to all the griefing.

I have real life friends and I have gamer friends that live across the world that I have never met in person.

What I do enjoy when I play games and why I pretty much only play MMO games is the player interaction. The one guy in the group that accidentally shoots the ship your supposed to be protecting and it is down to 2% health and the rest of the group has to coordinate how to get us out of this hot mess we are in, then player x in the group rams the attacking ship that threatens to destroy the ship you are trying to protect, sacrificing himself so the guild can accomplish the mission.

Games have missions or things to do or whatever and you do them solo and you have done them and you finish the game and move on to the next game. Games that have a multiplayer experience remain fun for much much longer. Say you need a group of 5 Anaconda's to get the mission done but you have your Anaconda and 4 other new players with sidewinders and you're like what the heck lets give it a try and you maybe almost make it through and a good time was had by all. It is the player interaction and the randomness of it that brings fun and entertainment to the same old mission that you have done 100 times before.

I bought a game that said it was an MMO but is in it's current state is actually difficult to play and enjoy with other players.

Don't get cranky. My connection is just fine. I was just expressing empathy for those I've read about, that do have such troubles. It's the effect guilds would exert on the type of content FD would need to produce. I propose that they make content that the entire community could benefit from, rather than pleasing the monoliths. People that bought the game, and enjoy it for solo mode would be excluded from content make challenging to a guild sized group. That represent using resources on content that isn't available to all. You must face the oft mentioned 'they paid the same price as you' argument. It's a preference to steer content towards the universal, rather than the exclusive content.

I have many of the same experiences as you. But, Elite has been cleverly designed to attract players with varied interests. They put it right in the sales pitch. I champion that stance. To fully support it, I suggest that FD needs to keep content as close to a solo pilots capacity as possible. Your narrative was compelling. Many days when I log in I would love that kind of gaming. Just not based on some conglomerate. And, certainly not all of the time. I have no interest in getting another call to stop what I'm doing and go play overwatch over a 'Raider' who's power leveling the new FotM class/build. I see FD going in another directions and I am very curious to see where it goes.

 

[Malpherian]

Malpherian, I have to ask this: If Guilds are so important to you, and you were so important to a Guild to be their recruiter in Eve, you know, the game with 5 million players, why did you decided to play Elite. You must have known that Guilds were not implemented, the architect isn't designed for more that 32 players in an instance, there isn't a financial setup that would work with Guilds.

It is like me going from BF2 to COD4 and constantly complaining there are no vehicles, the gameplay sucks and the maps are too small. I am actually beginning to wonder if you actually play Elite or just trying to get your Eve Guild into Elite. So far all you have done is put down anyone who disagrees, often with irrelevant links to obscure articles. You portray guild concept as all unicorns and rainbows, everyone will behave, no body will be disadvantaged, everyone will profit.

So you tell me, and I am sure there are others that would like to know as well: Just what do you think having Guilds in Elite will achieve? How will it benefit the entire Elite Community? Can you guarantee that the current situation of players being able to freely go where they want will be continued? Explain to me why Guilds should not be in a Group by themselves and leave Open for anyone who wants to play?

Awaiting your answer!

1. Actually from what I've read about upcoming expansion Guilds are going to be introduced (as Fleets), I've even got something (A Guild Design Scheme) I am going to post which allows guilds in Open while simultaneously ensuring none of the things you all are concerned about is a factor. I used to be a Dev and A creative consultant myself. So I am going to do this for this community because I think it's worth it.

2. I joined elite dangerous because It's a game with a ton of untouched potential, it's in it's early stages, and that means I can be a part of shaping it, In EvE I was an industrialist mainly, and an Economist. I enjoy the ability to create, design, and be a part of something meaningful, and I believe Elite is all of those things and can be all of those things.

I quit eve because I burned out. 13 years is a long time. I didn't get bored or anything.. EvE is just... very time consuming... and I do not have the time to dedicate to it. I found Elite, and it's similar enough to EvE (especially with the upcoming expansions) not to mention its an FPS cockpit shooter, that I just had to try it, and like I loved EvE I loved ED and it's potential to be better then all others.

3. A guild doesn;t have to be more then 32 players, but even 100 man guild can spread its members out across multiple systems doing multiple things, some muight like to trade together, some might run missions, others might Mine (especially with crafting upcoming), some might PP adn PvP... who knows there's lots of options for Guild activity without the Devs actually having to add anything at all.

What they can add with guild content, is and SHOULD be available content for ALL players as well. Solo or winged. but is made possible through Guild functions, like Guild owned stations for example. And we meaning all of us can make that happen, and make the game BETTER for EVERYONE. Not just Solo players or Guild Players, but features that enrich the game FOR ALL.

4. Yes I can guarantee that. ED is revolutionary because it includes said Solo mode, which is an amazing feature while still allowing interaction with the real game world. All of these features (such as custom missions, Market items being sold by players crafted by that guild on the stations market, etc, which Guild Stations would introduce would also, be available to these SOLO players as well. Even in Open your going to find that while like now yes your going to have the occasional at/Frak guild/group/whatever. Your also going to have the Good guys who will fight, and stand up for you the little guy.

I want this game to have millions of people, it's a huge game with billions of star systems. I want Diversity, I want Content, I want everyone, to have something they want, in game. And to have a game that no matter it's Content, they WILL always have something they will enjoy and can do, by themselves, or with a group.

 

[mossfoot]

I feel this needs to be brought up again before it's forgotten...

Out of curiosity - let's just assume for a moment that we're NEVER getting Guild support.

Let's also assume that MOST of the things guilds want can be done off-game, and the desire for their inclusion is simply quality-of-life related.


What can be done OUT OF GAME to simplify things for these kind of guilders? Is there a way to create a one-stop-shopping kind of webpage that makes things simple and easy for guilders to organize? A template that new guilders can use to create their own. That includes everything they need in easy to access format?

In short, can they be given to tools to improve their quality-of-life out of the game and get what they want now instead of begging for updates that, even if they were added, probably wouldn't be so for a year or more?

The problem with out of game guilding is that there is no real connection or notifications about activity of guild members or other needed and relevant info.

In addition most People are casual gamers and do not have the luxury of 2. Monitors. So alt taking every so often to check chats and or guild notices can be not only inconvenient and annoying but in a game like this very dangerous.

Wouldn't something like Overwolf have what you need? http://www.overwolf.com/

They even have an Elite: Dangerous skin available

[video=youtube;kVu--raWO60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVu--raWO60&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


I'm dead serious, by the way - why couldn't this give you much of what you're asking for?

 

[Mohrgan]

So I let this run for a few pages without replying, and, honestly I wasn't disappointed.

<snipped>
People come in Bitter, thinking corps are horrible, and afraid were going to get them into 0.0 then blow them up. And they wait sometimes for MONTHS for the other shoe to drop, when it never does they finally relax, take a fresh breath, look around and go.. WoW... These guys/Girls are actually... Great.

Your post was complete nonsense. Psychoanalysis on the interweb, totally convincing. My argument is based on resources. Any content, UI's, Hideouts, programming out side of a good set of Comms would distract from the development path FD are on. None of your arguments about how and who runs a guild matters. It;s a forgone conclusion, in your own words, that there will be disruptive guilds, when and if they can. But that doesn't even enter the argument. By making guilds, you'd absolutely hear a cry for guild sized activities and features. Many players don't fly in groups. Many more just plain fly alone. You're asking those players to subsidize your content. FD has and should continue to focus on the universal kind of content, not the oversized.

 

[Malpherian]

I feel this needs to be brought up again before it's forgotten...

it would help, but we want organization. Teamspeak is just voice coms, and lets face it... not everyone wants to get on team-speak, and in fact some absolutely refuse to, Team speak and over-wolf for these individuals, is useless.

An In game Guild system where they can chat, talk, and interact with their guild-mates and friends on the same level, is far more useful.

 

[Mohrgan]

1. Actually from what I've read about upcoming expansion Guilds are going to be introduced (as Fleets), I've even got something (A Guild Design Scheme) I am going to post which allows guilds in Open while simultaneously ensuring none of the things you all are concerned about is a factor. I used to be a Dev and A creative consultant myself. So I am going to do this for this community because I think it's worth it.

<snipped>
I want this game to have millions of people, it's a huge game with billions of star systems. I want Diversity, I want Content, I want everyone, to have something they want, in game. And to have a game that no matter it's Content, they WILL always have something they will enjoy and can do, by themselves, or with a group.

You may have good intentions, but you are essentially reinventing the wheel, when we already fly space ships. FD has the opportunity to leapfrog past the obvious. I'll bring this up again; Hasn't FD announced intentions to let player groups associate themselves with and through minor factions? I heard a lot about this for a while, but CQC and Horizons has drowned it out. That sounds awesome, is it still a thing? You can be integrated right into the BSG. Let's talk about that. Let's see how that can succeed. The content has to be accessible to a group, not bigger than a full wing. A Strong Signal Source as an example. Elite doesn't have to and shouldn't walk in any other games foot steps.

 

[jabokai]

Your post was complete nonsense. Psychoanalysis on the interweb, totally convincing.

Glad somebody pointed that out. I only skimmed it (as with others I can't be bothered dealing with the poster's silly choice of colours on a light background) but kind of embarrassing to try and impart credibility to a post by referencing psychological conditions and behaviours.

Also embarrassing that he quoted a few lines as if that encompassed the entire argument against having guilds, but were actually just cherry picked to ridicule.

 

[Malpherian]

Your post was complete nonsense. Psychoanalysis on the interweb, totally convincing. My argument is based on resources. Any content, UI's, Hideouts, programming out side of a good set of Comms would distract from the development path FD are on. None of your arguments about how and who runs a guild matters. It;s a forgone conclusion, in your own words, that there will be disruptive guilds, when and if they can. But that doesn't even enter the argument. By making guilds, you'd absolutely hear a cry for guild sized activities and features. Many players don't fly in groups. Many more just plain fly alone. You're asking those players to subsidize your content. FD has and should continue to focus on the universal kind of content, not the oversized.

Ed is already adding guild sized events and features. You should really read the blogs and update notes.

As I stated, The devs would not need to add any content at all for just "Guilds" this is not WoW.

Your confusing WoW-type guilds, with Sandbox Guilds.

* Sandbox guilds, make there own content, useing the available resources in the game, and ED has already stated they are adding 'Player owned Bases", a PLayer Economy", and a lot more. So anything we the Pro-Guild Union might want is already being added.

* As far as ats and Fraks go, they are already in Game, and already organized. So Whats your point? Adding Guilds wont change this, in fact it may Alleviate some of it considering the "Good" Guys can more easily form cohesive groups to combat the ats and Fraks.

I would, as a matter of Fact, that's probably one of the major things My guild would do, and I am positive there are a ton of others with the same ideas.

 

[mossfoot]

it would help, but we want organization. Teamspeak is just voice coms, and lets face it... not everyone wants to get on team-speak, and in fact some absolutely refuse to, Team speak and over-wolf for these individuals, is useless.

An In game Guild system where they can chat, talk, and interact with their guild-mates and friends on the same level, is far more useful.

did you see all the other apps available on Overwolf? its not just about teamspeak. you can use your browser, twitter, social media and more all from within the game. And if the app you want doesn't exist, you can no doubt find people who will make it happen.

This program was designed with guilds in mind

 

[Mohrgan]

it would help, but we want organization. Teamspeak is just voice coms, and lets face it... not everyone wants to get on team-speak, and in fact some absolutely refuse to, Team speak and over-wolf for these individuals, is useless.

An In game Guild system where they can chat, talk, and interact with their guild-mates and friends on the same level, is far more useful.

The idea of improved Comm's has been almost universally accepted in this thread. And, you'll get no argument from me But, that's where it should stand. Every player would benefit from better Comm's. Much, if not all of the rest of your for plans for Corps is a diversion from the content that all can participate in.

 

[Malpherian]

Glad somebody pointed that out. I only skimmed it (as with others I can't be bothered dealing with the poster's silly choice of colours on a light background) but kind of embarrassing to try and impart credibility to a post by referencing psychological conditions and behaviours.

Also embarrassing that he quoted a few lines as if that encompassed the entire argument against having guilds, but were actually just cherry picked to ridicule.

Why is it silly if it's true? If you mean, silly for people to behave that way then I agree.


On another note,
- You both sit there and insult my well thought out and detailed post within which evidence is provided to support it. Yet in rebuttal you provide nothing but insults to it, saying it's silly Nonsense.

And so your aware (which you obviously are not) the argument for and against guilds is in fact a psychological and social one at it's core. So my post is VERY relevant, and Very accurate.

- - - Updated - - -

The idea of improved Comm's has been almost universally accepted in this thread. And, you'll get no argument from me But, that's where it should stand. Every player would benefit from better Comm's. Much, if not all of the rest of your for plans for Corps is a diversion from the content that all can participate in.

All can participate in everything I have suggested if they "want to" or not , if they don't. I don't see your point here. (this has been covered multiple times already also)

 

[Malpherian]

did you see all the other apps available on Overwolf? its not just about teamspeak. you can use your browser, twitter, social media and more all from within the game. And if the app you want doesn't exist, you can no doubt find people who will make it happen.

This program was designed with guilds in mind

People should not have to have multiple media devices simply so they can talk, interact, and group with / to their friends in a game you both play. As I've said before also, not everyone can afford 2 monitors. Personally I have 5, as I build gaming systems for a hobby and own an Ebay store. But not everyone has that luxury. and even that being the case, I still don;t like to look away from my screen in order to engage someone in conversation, people die in combat like that, or in various other situations. It's dangerous. Kind of like texting while you drive. it's a horrible Idea when you can do it in Game and watch the screen at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -

You may have good intentions, but you are essentially reinventing the wheel, when we already fly space ships. FD has the opportunity to leapfrog past the obvious. I'll bring this up again; Hasn't FD announced intentions to let player groups associate themselves with and through minor factions? I heard a lot about this for a while, but CQC and Horizons has drowned it out. That sounds awesome, is it still a thing? You can be integrated right into the BSG. Let's talk about that. Let's see how that can succeed. The content has to be accessible to a group, not bigger than a full wing. A Strong Signal Source as an example. Elite doesn't have to and shouldn't walk in any other games foot steps.

Actually the max something is accessible to is 32 players. Much bigger then a wing.

 

[mossfoot]

People should not have to have multiple media devices simply so they can talk, interact, and group with / to their friends in a game you both play. As I've said before also, not everyone can afford 2 monitors. Personally I have 5, as I build gaming systems for a hobby and own an Ebay store. But not everyone has that luxury. and even that being the case, I still don;t like to look away from my screen in order to engage someone in conversation, people die in combat like that, or in various other situations. It's dangerous. Kind of like texting while you drive. it's a horrible Idea when you can do it in Game and watch the screen at the same time.

Multiple media? Two monitors? You do realize its all on the SAME screen. That's the point. It's added functionality on the same screen. Yes, it's an extra program running, but so is voice attack and FaceTrackNoIR or shadowplay.

But, again, same screen. Not an extra screen. No extra screen needed.

 

[the100thmonkey]

It's not guilds per se that I think won't work - I'm in one, although I wouldn't call it a "guild" (it's a naff word).

Any player-owned station mechanic is going to have to take into account the existing simulation rules governing NPC factions -- why should players enjoy a privileged position in the sim? --. This would leave player factions open to undermining. As solo mode isn't going away, you've got a problem immediately - states like famine, civil unrest, lockdown and outbreak can be triggered easily by one player if they know how. These can have really annoying effects on the system and block other states.

Given that the NPC factions controlling a station can be undermined and lose the station in a conflict or election, I can imagine the rage threads when player factions lose their system to another player faction or a player-backed NPC faction. It would be hilarious.

You can't extort money or enforce no-fly zones when players can just disappear into private groups or solo mode. FD have shown no inclination to introduce docking fees or the like thus far, and instead seem pretty committed to the facilities in the game being available to all who go through that part of space.

Locking the "profits" from a station into an indirect relationship to the player via missions and trading allows FD to simplify the simulation - you don't really need to perform any heavy-duty accounting when currency in the game is either in player accounts or magicked out the aether when missions are completed. Player factions looking for a way to make money by running a station are asking for a major addition to the BGS, perhaps even a major rewrite. Additionally, it would take a lot of man hours and access to the scripting engine for players to be able to draft their own missions for a station, and this would also be potentially open to serious abuse.


I'm not saying it can't be done; it just seems to me that most of the people calling for it haven't really thought through what they're actually asking for - an extensive rewrite of the game to include things that were never part of the original design.

 

[jabokai]

Why is it silly if it's true? If you mean, silly for people to behave that way then I agree.


On another note,
- You both sit there and insult my well thought out and detailed post within which evidence is provided to support it. Yet in rebuttal you provide nothing but insults to it, saying it's silly Nonsense.

And so your aware (which you obviously are not) the argument for and against guilds is in fact a psychological and social one at it's core. So my post is VERY relevant, and Very accurate.

Well thought out and detailed post? Really? Bit up yourself there buddy - I considered it amateur psychobabble designed to make it look like it has some credibility, where it actually has none - based as it is on your own misunderstandings of many people's objections to guilds.

The argument in a lot of people's cases, in this and the previous threads, is simply that it doesn't fit in Elite. And not even that it cannot be made to fit, as obviously guilds could be forced into pretty much any multiplayer game, but that there is nothing wrong at all with doing something different. Something different that a lot of us appreciate. While I'm not happy with many aspects of the game, this is one area where it's exploring something different.

Your attitude seems to be that every multiplayer game should have guilds - like it's a core foundation of the game. The argument here is that you are wrong - things can be done differently, and work.

FYI I've played many multiplayer games with guilds and both played solo in those games and in guilds. Indeed I was in the top Alliance guild on the server when I played WoW so am well aware of how good guilds work, both mechanically and socially. I just don't think it fits, or is needed in ED. It will change the nature of the game for all, including people playing on their own or with a couple of mates.

 

[Malpherian]

Multiple media? Two monitors? You do realize its all on the SAME screen. That's the point. It's added functionality on the same screen. Yes, it's an extra program running, but so is voice attack an FaceTrackNoIR or shadowplay.

But, again, same screen. Not an extra screen. No extra screen needed.

That would probably be a temporary fix then sure.

But I think most people would still prefer some kind of In game system for it rather then having to set up and deal with 3rd party programs.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not guilds per se that I think won't work - I'm in one, although I wouldn't call it a "guild" (it's a naff word).

Any player-owned station mechanic is going to have to take into account the existing simulation rules governing NPC factions -- why should players enjoy a privileged position in the sim? --. This would leave player factions open to undermining. As solo mode isn't going away, you've got a problem immediately - states like famine, civil unrest, lockdown and outbreak can be triggered easily by one player if they know how. These can have really annoying effects on the system and block other states.

Given that the NPC factions controlling a station can be undermined and lose the station in a conflict or election, I can imagine the rage threads when player factions lose their system to another player faction or a player-backed NPC faction. It would be hilarious.

You can't extort money or enforce no-fly zones when players can just disappear into private groups or solo mode. FD have shown no inclination to introduce docking fees or the like thus far, and instead seem pretty committed to the facilities in the game being available to all who go through that part of space.

Locking the profits from a station into an indirect relationship to the player via missions and trading allows FD to simplify the simulation. Player factions looking for a way to make money by running a station are asking for a major addition to the BGS, perhaps even a major rewrite. It would take a lot of man hours and access to the scripting engine for players to be able to draft their own missions, and this would also be potentially open to serious abuse.


I'm not saying it can't be done; it just seems to me that most of the people calling for it haven't really thought through what they're actually asking for - an extensive rewrite of the game to include things that were never part of the original design.

The player SoV control mechanics (System wars) would be different from power play, as PP is designed for NPC's which do everything anyway automatically. and that concern would only apply to "System" Control.

Stations are owned by who they are owned by. Sure a mechanic for taking a players station could later be introduced why not. But again it wouldn't be the same as the PP mechanics.
Specifically for the reasons you pointed out. among others.

 

[Mohrgan]

Ed is already adding guild sized events and features. You should really read the blogs and update notes.

As I stated, The devs would not need to add any content at all for just "Guilds" this is not WoW.

Your confusing WoW-type guilds, with Sandbox Guilds.

* Sandbox guilds, make there own content, useing the available resources in the game, and ED has already stated they are adding 'Player owned Bases", a PLayer Economy", and a lot more. So anything we the Pro-Guild Union might want is already being added.

* As far as ats and Fraks go, they are already in Game, and already organized. So Whats your point? Adding Guilds wont change this, in fact it may Alleviate some of it considering the "Good" Guys can more easily form cohesive groups to combat the ats and Fraks.

I would, as a matter of Fact, that's probably one of the major things My guild would do, and I am positive there are a ton of others with the same ideas.

I believe I'm pretty well versed in the goings on. I would be thrilled if you could point me at those blogs and update notes. FD has surprised me before. No raid type content you may be the only one saying this. I am not confusing anything. I am saying that the scale of a guild will act on the type of content generated. Once there are monolithic guilds with their base organized, there eyes would turn to large scale activities. Look at the posts in this thread for proof. FD has an opportunity to make it different. Integrate player groups right with the BGS from the start. Associate, adopt, create a minor faction that expands and contracts with it's fortunes. There you have empire building that needs no special content. Even CG's don't require membership into anything. Any lone pilot can make a difference, that's a good plan.

I have to spend some time trying to catch up on the Minor Factions issue. I must pray to the google gods.

 

[Malpherian]

Well thought out and detailed post? Really? Bit up yourself there buddy - I considered it amateur psychobabble designed to make it look like it has some credibility, where it actually has none - based as it is on your own misunderstandings of many people's objections to guilds.

The argument in a lot of people's cases, in this and the previous threads, is simply that it doesn't fit in Elite. And not even that it cannot be made to fit, as obviously guilds could be forced into pretty much any multiplayer game, but that there is nothing wrong at all with doing something different. Something different that a lot of us appreciate. While I'm not happy with many aspects of the game, this is one area where it's exploring something different.

Your attitude seems to be that every multiplayer game should have guilds - like it's a core foundation of the game. The argument here is that you are wrong - things can be done differently, and work.

FYI I've played many multiplayer games with guilds and both played solo in those games and in guilds. Indeed I was in the top Alliance guild on the server when I played WoW so am well aware of how good guilds work, both mechanically and socially. I just don't think it fits, or is needed in ED. It will change the nature of the game for all, including people playing on their own or with a couple of mates.

I have only seen a few posters state that "(it doesn't fit in elite)" in 100+ pages, sure they have repeated themselves on occasion but there you go. And since PP introduced NPC "Guilds" and factions were already in Game, that "Does not fit" is getting very very slim. Once Player stations, and the other Large group features are added (Which is already stated as in Development and some of it coming with Horizon), That reasoning won't fit at all, in fact at that point, the Question will be, Why are their no Guilds when ED is made for them?.

 

[mossfoot]

That would probably be a temporary fix then sure.

But I think most people would still prefer some kind of In game system for it rather then having to set up and deal with 3rd party programs.

Third party programs that you can CUSTOMIZE to your needs.

Seriously, check the Overwolf site out, and the apps available. See what it can offer, and if you think guilds would benefit from it, run with it! Why waste your time and energy here arguing for something that may never happen (and if it does, possibly not the way you hope, and even then a year or more away!)

Why deal with something you have no control over when you have access to something you DO have control over? You could have much of what you want right now!