Ships you want to see in Elite: Dangerous?
- Thread starter OneoftheLost
- Start date
I am hoping that they introduce Capital ships - cost an insane amount of money; have stupidly huge amounts of space; turn like a slug stuck in mud; but can be fitted out (as mentioned above) as a death machine.
Patrolling the skies hunting for bounties ... Life as a cop is the one for me
Patrolling the skies hunting for bounties ... Life as a cop is the one for me
I'm not sure I want cockpits.
The previous games didn't use them, and I prefer it that way. I'd rather have one console for all the ships like FFE and FE2 did. That way nothing obstructs my view but the important stuff.
I do however, really like the Asp too, and I'd do unspeakable things for a flyable Fer-De-Lance.
...so dreamy....
I definitely want a proper cockpit view - the radar console and crosshairs just didn't make you feel as though you were in a space ship in my opinion and for a game released in 2014, I'd expect much more than that. A proper, fully functional cockpit complete with Track IR support. Or, for those who want it, the radar console/crosshairs setup. Options are always a good thing, DB.
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I do not like the "fully modular" approach at all. A few games including mechwarrior 2 did that. It removed all identity from ships - they just became hulls with a unique look. Shells void of identity.
Personally, i even considered elite2 ships too modular in this regard.
With this, i do not mean to remove all modularity, or only allow trivial modularity.
I also wouldn't have a problem, with - just as in reality for crafts - there being variants of them with completely different role, as long as the variants have some unique visual tweaks to again make them recognizable.
What i would like to see, more is like a 3 layer approach:
1. Ship Class. Overall capabilities and look.
2. Ship Class Variant. Overall ship role and tweaks to the look (The role would already put vague limits in which direction you take take the ship - like, some cargospace already being hardcoded (can make room for more, but not less).)
3. Customization: Buy a variant of a ship class, then tweak the details. So, your ship can have your tweaks, but you can't turn a trader variant into a battlecruiser, as in E2/E3. Though, perhaps for a discount it could be possible to "convert" a ship from one variant to another variant.
Personally, i even considered elite2 ships too modular in this regard.
With this, i do not mean to remove all modularity, or only allow trivial modularity.
I also wouldn't have a problem, with - just as in reality for crafts - there being variants of them with completely different role, as long as the variants have some unique visual tweaks to again make them recognizable.
What i would like to see, more is like a 3 layer approach:
1. Ship Class. Overall capabilities and look.
2. Ship Class Variant. Overall ship role and tweaks to the look (The role would already put vague limits in which direction you take take the ship - like, some cargospace already being hardcoded (can make room for more, but not less).)
3. Customization: Buy a variant of a ship class, then tweak the details. So, your ship can have your tweaks, but you can't turn a trader variant into a battlecruiser, as in E2/E3. Though, perhaps for a discount it could be possible to "convert" a ship from one variant to another variant.
I feel the same way about your idea. Why would I ever bother getting a new ship if I can upgrade mine? Once you get a ship, you never leave it. Certain ships will never be used, and one 'frame' will rule the skies. Go play Evochron Mercenary MP for a perfect example of why your idea is boring to me. It literally sucks any enjoyment out of ships. Customization isn't always great, no matter what the corporations tell you.
Anyway, neither of us will ever agree on this.. so moving on.
I would love to see more classes of capitol ships. Something with dozens of turrets would be sweet.
I only fully played Elite and even that was a long time ago so my memory is a little vague now.
Do you have a link anywhere that might explain the differences for FE/FE2 so I can appeciate where you're coming from ?
(The angle I was coming from is similar to "pimp my ride" - your old car stripped of everything and built *exactly* how you want it
)
Ships so big you can't dock them in space stations but have to pull up alongside and "anchor". Then maybe take a shuttle into the station.
Now you're just playing with me ... someone get me a cloth, dropped my coffee in excitementShips so big you can't dock them in space stations but have to pull up alongside and "anchor". Then maybe take a shuttle into the station.
Peanuts. What about: So freaking big, that it would require too much fuel for them to travel inside a system at all: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/JumpShip
There isn't really any link neccessary: In elite 2/3, EVERYTHING but the thrusters is just an "installed" cargo-item, taking cargo-space away. Even planetary shielding (needed to enter atmosphere) can be removed.
Basically, in E2/3, a ship just is:
- A visual design
- Thruster performance
- Hull mass (acts as armor, as well as modifies jump range and fuel consumption)
- An amount of free "cargo space"
Everything else, including even the stardrive, is just something bought and installed into the cargobay. So, a ship in E2/3 really is nothing else than a hull, hull-design and thrusters.
So yeah, you could take a big transport ship, install a bazillion shield generators and a dozen heavy beam lasers, and thus turn it into a war ship. The "hull" didn't tell you anything about what a ship is about - just its capacity, speed and mass.
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You can only upgrade your ship so far before needing a new one. Remember there is also a trade off - the larger your ship the less maneuverable it becomes and perhaps fewer mount points for weapons. The smaller your ship the quicker it becomes at the expense of cargo / number of ship components.
I hear your comment about everyone using the same skin - wouldn't that be true of fixed craft as well ?
Combat - Cobra Ml IV
Explorer - Viper
Trader - Some random cargo ship
That's not necessarily true .. Sometimes what you think is a good idea (in my case fully modular) doesn't work out the way you expect. I didn't play Evochron Mercenary MP so I can't comment.
The _only_ game I ever played that did this kind of thing was Gran Turismo. Being able to customise you car and tweak it on the test track was awesome. This might not translate well in space.
Perhaps Mika's hybrid suggestion fits this scenario in that you have your stock ships that you can remove / replace some parts (like the old elite beam --> military weapons but more options) but you're confined more with what you can do.
Remember - this is just throwing out ideas
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Actually, what i was trying to imply was more than just i.e. replacing one weapon for another.
See, in E2/3 and games with a similiar mechanic, there really is only ONE "class" of "room to put equipment in".
Its like: "This is a 200 ton ship, and you have 80 tons free to put *whatever you want* in, including cargo*".
While this indeed is very flexible and customizable, it removes any identity and role from a ship class or variant.
What i'm thinking off is more like: There are multiple "kinds" of "free space". The ship class could limit the total amount of free space, as well as define mass and thruster performance. A ship variant would decide how that total freespace is distributed (num of external hardpoints, tonnage for hull modification upgrades, tonnage for internal equipment (unused space is free for cargo).
By a "variant" already ruling how the space is distributed among "kinds of equipment", the variant basically could give a ship an overall role.
For example, a variant of a ship could say, that:
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for weapons
- at miminum 20% of the space can only be used for hullmods (i.e. armor)
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for equipment
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for cargo
In this hypothetical example, none of this tells you which weapons to equip, which hullmods to apply, which equipment to install, which cargo to load. That is up to you. And the remaining 20%, you can use for whatever means you want.
So, in the above example, by someone seeing your variant, he can get an overall idea of what your ship is biased towards, but you can still tweak the details as you like, and via the multipurpose 20%, can even sligthly shift the overall role of the variant (i.e. installing 4 guns instead of 2).
See, in E2/3 and games with a similiar mechanic, there really is only ONE "class" of "room to put equipment in".
Its like: "This is a 200 ton ship, and you have 80 tons free to put *whatever you want* in, including cargo*".
While this indeed is very flexible and customizable, it removes any identity and role from a ship class or variant.
What i'm thinking off is more like: There are multiple "kinds" of "free space". The ship class could limit the total amount of free space, as well as define mass and thruster performance. A ship variant would decide how that total freespace is distributed (num of external hardpoints, tonnage for hull modification upgrades, tonnage for internal equipment (unused space is free for cargo).
By a "variant" already ruling how the space is distributed among "kinds of equipment", the variant basically could give a ship an overall role.
For example, a variant of a ship could say, that:
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for weapons
- at miminum 20% of the space can only be used for hullmods (i.e. armor)
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for equipment
- at minimum 20% of the space can only be used for cargo
In this hypothetical example, none of this tells you which weapons to equip, which hullmods to apply, which equipment to install, which cargo to load. That is up to you. And the remaining 20%, you can use for whatever means you want.
So, in the above example, by someone seeing your variant, he can get an overall idea of what your ship is biased towards, but you can still tweak the details as you like, and via the multipurpose 20%, can even sligthly shift the overall role of the variant (i.e. installing 4 guns instead of 2).
Hmm. Well, to sum it up, EM did EXACTLY what you are describing, with VERY similar trade-offs (clearly the developer felt the same way.
). Instead of ships you had 'frames' and on these frames you would build your ideal ship. Each 'frame' had a variable, i.e. more armor, less speed, etc. Then you throw your favorite modifications and have a ship.My personal problem with this, is that what happened, was that everyone flew the exact same 'frame' because it was best at a given thing. Combat, exploration, whatever. There was no reason to use a lower end frame, because the big one's trade off was worth the advance you got for doing whatever activity.
Now, with Frontier Elite 2 and Frontier First Encounters, one of my favorite things was how people used the tools they where given. I myself exclusively flew the Cobra Mk. III. I know of a Sidewinder pilot on this very forum, who swears by that ship. I also know of a Viper pilot who does the same. Despite the fact that you can only customize these so far, its how they use them that really makes them into something special.
Now, lets look at EM again, lets say I have a top combat frame. Everyone else who dogfights, is going to have that same frame, unless they don't have the cash. Even with customization, everyone essentially is flying the same thing, and forced to use the same tactics.
Now, I suppose EM may not have been balanced properly, and what you are saying could work, my fear however, is that without ships with very defined roles and attributes, we end up with everyone flying the exact same thing and loadout, with different colors. Granted you could probably do that with the older style ships, but they where fairly well balanced. A well stocked Cobbie, could easily handle a well stocked Asp given each ship knew how to use its advantages.
@OneoftheLost:
What you write is very interesting, because it shows that even if you have ships/variants geared for a certain role (and thus them having an identity).... this may actually result in everyone who works in a given role, flying the same ship, because it works best for that purpose.
As i see it, this can only be fixed by having more ships, thus having more finegrained transitions between roles, so that even minor variations in preferences inside the same role, result in different ship preferences.
Unfortunatelly, i doubt that this can be done via "15 ships at launch". With 15 ships, you really can only cover all the basic roles.
What you write is very interesting, because it shows that even if you have ships/variants geared for a certain role (and thus them having an identity).... this may actually result in everyone who works in a given role, flying the same ship, because it works best for that purpose.
As i see it, this can only be fixed by having more ships, thus having more finegrained transitions between roles, so that even minor variations in preferences inside the same role, result in different ship preferences.
Unfortunatelly, i doubt that this can be done via "15 ships at launch". With 15 ships, you really can only cover all the basic roles.
Something that I would be keen to avoid as well ... In some games I play you have builds for your characters and basically everyone runs pretty much the same one.
I am sure that FD will take that into account when they do ship design / component design.
Shoot me down for this but I'd be happy to see a re-imagining of the ships; of course, keep the original names and try to stick broadly to the geometry (just improved) but if a few sizes and stats have to change to keep things balanced then so be it.
There were some good ships in Frontier, but there were also some that you never really needed to fly because there were similar and better ones.
Would love to see each ship have a unique cockpit though, and yes - cockpit cosmetic customisations could be another money spinner that doesn't unbalance anything!
Call me hardcore but I think we should be made to start in an interplanetary shuttle or a Lifter... and a second hand one at that. Otherwise definately no point in having them in game & flyable.
There were some good ships in Frontier, but there were also some that you never really needed to fly because there were similar and better ones.
Would love to see each ship have a unique cockpit though, and yes - cockpit cosmetic customisations could be another money spinner that doesn't unbalance anything!
Call me hardcore but I think we should be made to start in an interplanetary shuttle or a Lifter... and a second hand one at that. Otherwise definately no point in having them in game & flyable.
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I've read through the post's in this topic, and found it very interesting.
One thought (well a few actually) springs to mind when some people are talking about the reasons why quite a few ships would be preferable in the game, due to slightly different 'tasks' and individual 'styles', that a player adopts for their own preferences and game play.
I understand completely this reasoning, but then thought "I'm thinking in the context of Frontier Elite 2 / FFE".
Elite Dangerous is going to be a bit different from these two previous games, one of the main reasons is how the ships will travel from one point in the universe to another. In FE2/FFE you could pick different 'drives', for example: You could strip out a ship to fit a larger drive at the expense of lesser shields or armament etc. to travel greater distances in one 'jump'.
Are these types of factors going to apply in ED?...It might alter the whole concept of ships uses and preferences when compared between the two games (FE2- FD)....or would it?
Jack.
One thought (well a few actually) springs to mind when some people are talking about the reasons why quite a few ships would be preferable in the game, due to slightly different 'tasks' and individual 'styles', that a player adopts for their own preferences and game play.
I understand completely this reasoning, but then thought "I'm thinking in the context of Frontier Elite 2 / FFE".
Elite Dangerous is going to be a bit different from these two previous games, one of the main reasons is how the ships will travel from one point in the universe to another. In FE2/FFE you could pick different 'drives', for example: You could strip out a ship to fit a larger drive at the expense of lesser shields or armament etc. to travel greater distances in one 'jump'.
Are these types of factors going to apply in ED?...It might alter the whole concept of ships uses and preferences when compared between the two games (FE2- FD)....or would it?
Jack.
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Erm, have we played the same games? In E2/E3, ships behave just like "frames" - the only thing hardcoded is thrusters and mass.
You will have to be of Elite status and fly to the edge of the galaxy to get it though...
